What is the truth about 9/11?
I come in peace, I come civility, I come to bring true debate, either for fun or for education. If we cannot have debate, then how can anybody truely learn or compromise? To be honest, this post is a semi extension of some other debates/conversations/name calling sessions. However, I couldnt respond last time because I had to leave town on Friday.
Let us have a real, clear debate about the 911 truth movement. I want this to be fair, civil, level headed and educational. I will give you my absolute word that I will be open minded and "try" to be as un-biased as someone with an established opinion can be and I hope that other posters can "try" to be the same way... please. Please no "your stupid, I am right, you are wrong and if you believe this way, then automatically you are ignorant and stupid because it is already established that I am right, so therefore you are wrong (an obvious plethoric abundance of fallicies)" because that is not how a true debate works. If I am attacked, then I will attack back, if I am presented with an argument that I cannot defend, then I will admit so, however I may try to bring a counter point or two and I hope that works the other way around. All I am asking is for you to be just as open minded as I am....
... Ok, so I was a former "911 truther" (for lack of a better term) for a year, give or take a month or two. I have seen most conspiracy films and websites out there, including 2012 conspiracies. I think Alex Jones films are brilliant and I am very entertained by them and I admit, after watching every one I start to become convinced, but to be fair I look up the "debunking" of such fims, then I make an opinion. I believe in the world elite, I believe the biggest conspiracies have to do with the super elite and the wallstreet/federal reserve system and corporatist elitism etc etc. That is a true evil we have to face and defeat. However, I dont believe that Bush blew up the towers. I hate bush and I hate most federal government, but I LOVE my country and would give my life for it, but this government is not my country. However, I still dont believe in the 911 conspiracies. I believe if we can "prove" them false, then I would find such conspiracies to be dangerous to some level, but I promise that if you can give me damning evidence, than I will awaken as well and give you my word that I will emphatically support your movement......
... I am a true conservative and have been for years. I have studied the lives of Sen. Taft, Barry Goldwater, Reagan, Gingrich (who happens to be douche most of the time) and others. However, no body has created such inspiration in me than RP. I have met him twice and spoken with him and I have never become so energized by one man in my life. I believe he is the only one I can think of who can save this country. However, I know his name gets tarnished alot in the mainstream due to the extreme backing of the Alex Jones crowd. "in my opinion", this hurts Dr. Paul and I believe that some times the Alex Jones wing tries to push out the non Alex Jones believers, similar but not in a bad way like Extremist Muslims drown out the voices of moderate Muslims (I am not calling or comparing any truther a terrorist in any way, please do not quote me on that). I have been called a troll and a shill, but then you have to be calling RP the same thing. I was told that after I get drowned out for spreading poisen (I cant see why having open debate is "spreading poisen) and was predicted that I would eventually get pushed out of this community... WHat the hell?!?!?! Are you serious? This is the most informative, best RP website I have ever seen in my life and just because I question the questioners, that means I dont belong here?! That is like the GOP kicking out RP for not being "conservative" enough, yet he is truely the most conservative person on the debate pannels.
I will not make any points here, Ill let the debate open, but please let me introduce some of the 911 truther "experts"... Then you can point out parts where you feel proves 911 was an inside job and I will be allowed an answer. (to be fair, make sure you actually read or watch my links or quotes that "proves" MY points, just like I will read every source that YOU point out.)
First of all, I would like to introduce some people who are at the fore front of the 911 truth movement. Before I start this lively debate, allow me to introduce some 911 truth leaders:
Allow me to introduce Alex Jones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikRc4ER2xY
Allow me to introduce the "scholars" for 911 Truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fe9YlHQwA
Allow me to introduce the Loose Change Team:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs5jWvu4tR8
Something fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQuIhJId1JY&feature=related




















Well, since there is no proof
that that the gov'ts story holds ANY water, then I suppose it's up to the individual to determine who are the likely perpetrators.
Was it the ones who all were killed and had their countries occupied, and had absolutely nothing to gain, and lost everything, and who had no real ability to even carry out the task?
Or was it the ones who made trillions of dollars, consolidated police-state rule in the US, took over huge land masses and resources, and reduced threatening influences over a certain domineering country in the Middle East, who had motive and opportunity and all the positions of power to do it and cover it up, and is known to have run "false flag operations" in the past on many occasions?
Ummm, let's see now. I wonder which one is more likely?
I believe that Israel & the Globalists did 9-11.
Based on a huge amount of electrifying circumstantial evidence a comprehensive investigation should lead to these results...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html
A few questions...
1. Where are the Logan Airport security tapes showing "Muslim Terrorists" boarding the aircraft?
2. Where are the security tapes confiscated from the convenience store and bank in close proximity to the Pentagon.
3. Why would the most highly guarded, above-surface building in the world have only ONE security camera on the impact side of the building?
4. Why were no persons of Arab descent found among the passenger remains?
5. Why were no persons with Arab surnames on the original aircraft passenger manifests?
6. Who were the "dancing Israelis" discovered on a nearby rooftop as the WTC burned?
7. Why were 41 Israeli "art students" deported immediately after 911?
8. Why didn't Griffiss AFB scramble aircraft which have easily overtaken the hijacked aircraft?
9. Why was Building 7 "pulled" and why did the BBC report it BEFORE IT HAPPENED?
10. Why doesn't the General formerally in charge of all US intelligence believe an aircraft hit the Pentagon?
Shall I go on?
You claim
To be seeking a debate, so how about one that is equally as preposterous.
The Debate will be that Plasma - super heated Gas is not Hot to the touch for the average person. You of course will defending that stance.
If you have not realized it yet this is what you are currently proposing.
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
the 9/11 movement is fully coopted by the men in power
It sounds like you have done a lot of research.
If you have done enough research what do you care what people think of 9/11?
Do you know who Prescott Bush is? He plead guilty in federal court to charges of aiding the enemy in WW2. He was a Nazi banker.......it's all on the public record, brother.
A few years later he ran for senator in Connecticut and won.
Ok? You have done research? Prep school boy from Milton, Mass funds Hitler, gets caught, has his companies liquidated by the department of justice and then runs for senator and wins.
Do you know who owns the New York Times?
You think the folks at the Hartford Courant should got on the "nazi banker story" when Bush was campaigning?
Have you researched Verdun of Dresden?
Have you researched the 14th and 15th infantry divisions of the US Army killing 650,000 Phillipino's?
Do you know how the founder of Yale University got his money...to fund Yale University? By selling opium to Chinese people.
Between 1780 and 1940 over $2 trillion in today's dollars worth of Chinese gold and silver was shipped to the Bank of England...through the British and American controlled opium trade.
I had a dear friend who flew heroin for the CIA in Vietnam...they used US Army helicopters, and ATC to fly the heroin.
I could go on for hours, brother. You said you have done research...
If you have done this research...the what the F do you care about 9/11 for?
Evidently, I have done more research than you. How many 9/11 leaders have you interviewed?
Brother, ALL of them are owned.
The 9/11 movement was well planned before 9/11.
So drop 9/11 and study the Wisslebank In Holland in 1609 and bring it to the present day.
9/11 is a drop in the bucket. Every second you spend on 9/11 is a victory for the men in power.
By the way? Why are you at the Daily Paul with 9/11 talk? You know perfectly well it just makes everyone hate each other over NOTHING. Why the focus on the divisive issue? We are finally focused on the families that own the federal reserve...the people behind the smattering of horrors listed above and now we get another 9/11 thread.
There are dozens of 9/11 sites out there...just dying to chew on thermite for years and years and yearzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Unify
9/11 was not an inside job
There is bad information by those who hold the traditional view and many questions are unanswered. My problem with much of the truther movement is they see the bad information, and suddenly think conspiracy, then "prove" their conspiracy with worse information.
If you are going to reject something for bad information, you shouldnt jump to something supported by worse information.
My opinion of 9/11, and I was an eye witness, a first responder and worked on the clean up, is that the planes where hijacked and driven into the buildings as claimed. The Conspiracy happens on how in Gods green earth does that happen. How does the government let this happen.
How does the patriot act and similar laws help it not happen again.
That is where all the conspiracies are involved. That is where the fight should be taking place...
To much time is spent clucking about nano thermite articles that had to sneaked into legitimate magazines.
Some times I think if there is a conspiracy, it is to confuse otherwise bright people that there is some secret truth behind every stone that is being with held. The Conspiracy is to create conspiracies to waste time and energy.
You my friend
are 100% LOST.....!!!
Answer these questions after reading this paper...
You must read this paper completely before you answer....
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200609/WhyIndeedDi...
Questions.....
#1 How did WTC 1 & 2 Fall, and why?
#2 How did WTC7 Fall & why?
#3 Show me the plane at the Pentagon?
#4 Show me the plane in PA??
Here is a little seen video from Fox news right after the plane hit the ground in PA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc
Do you see the crater??? LOL???
Show me???
I will as soon as I get home from work.
I posted lat night then went to bed.
But in the mean time why if 100 tonnes of themite was used did it take to long for the buildings to fall down. The same thing can be said for demolitions.
That sounds like the view of a minority now.
Perhaps time to open the eyes.. Your government would not bend over backwards to stop an investigation, independent at that, if it had nothing to hide. They might not have planted the bombs themselves but knowing about it and doing nothing about it to prevent it from happening is, in my books, complicity, and falls under 'inside job'.
How about
Hiding freaking terribly inept it as doing what it claims it does.
Because one the public knows that they become liberty minded and reconsider things like the second amendment.
So there was no conspiracy then?
None?
Explore Orthodox Christianity
Too much evidence....
of an inside job to list here but I would say that WTC7 is all you need to see. WTC7 was a controlled demolition plain and simple. There is no other reasonable consideration for how that building collpased.
I also think that the idea that the Pentacon was left completely undefended is a big clue. Even if there were no jets available (which is ridicoulous) the Pentacon has surface to air missiles and the White House has shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapons. There is no plausable excuse for not defending the Pentacon and the nations capitol.
Third obvious example is flight 93. I have seen many plane crashes involving commercial jets. Never have I seen a crash site where a plane crashed into flat land and left no trace of an airplane having crashed there. No large parts, bodies, no engines or landing gear, no seats, wire & cable, ....nothing....but a terrorist red bandana in perfect or new condition.
I don't want to insult the person that posted this but I believe this is a no-brainer. Good luck in finding the truth....may I suggest that you put aside all the distractions and just LOOK at the evidence we do have and use your common sense.
undeniable
Clearly Shown Here
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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
First why don't you show the
First why don't you show the real video and not the edited one. You're makes it seem like it all falls at once when the one you are linking was spliced together from 2 video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPa2PXJS8yA&feature=related
Instead the real video shows the penthouse fall, then 8 seconds later, the rest of the building starts to fall. How does that fit into a CT? They only blow part of the building, then wait 8 seconds and blow the rest? How does thermite fit into the 8 seconds delay?
You don't think that half the building being scooped out didn't help the building fall? How much of a building do you need for it still stay up?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51FIPMlrFf4&feature=related
Your point is irrelevant.
The penthouse that did collapse seconds before the rest of the structure makes no difference. The fact that it collapsed had nothing to do with each of the rest of the core collums in the building. Each core beam has its own load bearing tolerance that MUST be broken down separetly. So because a portion of the building goes down, that action still CANNOT be the cause for the other core collums to completely fail in the sycronized manner necessary to cause the uniform collapse that DID happen to WTC7.
Not to mention there was no catalyst to set this series of mystical events into motion... unless you are going to make the claim that it was was normal office fires going off in the building. But if you make that claim, you are going to have to explain the windsor building in madrid and the building in china that recently burned and didn't collapse.
Respond?
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
Great point, Hero! Why not?
Ron Paul 2012
Ron Paul 2012
Yer trollin' the wrong waters pal...
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/95953
Note the comments AP, you'll not earn your money here...
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
Thanks For Stoppin' By
enjoyin' the comments..
Two questions, then.
(1) Do you believe the official government conspiracy theory -- i.e., a couple dozen Islamic extremists led by (perhaps) former CIA asset Osama bin Laden, used box cutters and maybe plastic picnic knives to take over four aircraft and bring down three World Trade Center buildings and punch a hole in the one wing of the Pentagon hadn't yet been hardened against attack, leaving behind only plane fragments that didn't match the type of aircraft allegedly involved?
(2) If so, how did these terrorists manage to make THREE buildings collapse from the impact of two planes, each falling through the path of greatest resistance at approximately free-fall speed; to produce all the molten metal at the bases of all three WTC towers; to pulverize most of the mass of those buildings into dust (rather than the chunks of concrete and steel most folks would expect to see); to include in that dust (from multiple sampling points) unexploded particles of military grade nano-thermite (that exploded under tests of the dust); and to leave in the rubble steel columns neatly cut on a diagonal with molten metal dripping from the cuts?
That should be easy enough.
Did you know the official report left out the CIA testimony
where they discussed blowback?
Explore Orthodox Christianity
* Watching shiny lure go spinning past*
★★★★★★
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http://freedocumentaries.net/c/All/
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Jefferson! One of my favorite informed people!
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
yer fickle :)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
Nah, I just love all my freedom loving friends
equally as much. You guys are my living heroes. Honest.
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
What's up Shishio
good to see you as well.
★★★★★★
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http://freedocumentaries.net/c/All/
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This won't work here .
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
One of my favs too.
you tell em Sentinel.
.
Sentinel! one of my favorite informed people.
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
lordindra3, I'll debate you on this topic if you want a debate
But on only one condition...
When I break you down so badly that you have to change screennames again, I want the signature on your next screenname to be 'Shishio is my new hero'.
And don't worry, i'm ok with you having a team of people to pull info from... it evens out the odds in this debate. Plus i'll be drinking for the duration, so that should help you on your side. Though honestly if you engage me in a real debate, you cannot win.
Do you have the fortitude to live with the condition set forth? I'm guessing no.
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
We can drink?
In the immortal words of Homer Simpson,"WOOHOO!"