Airphone calls made on 9/11
Submitted by RonPaulLIVES on Wed, 07/22/2009 - 10:00Phone calls
Theory
According to 9/11 conspiracy theorists, the four flights that originated from Boston, Washington Dulles, and Newark were landed someplace else. Perhaps from there, they were escorted off to some secret CIA prison (and executed?).
According to conspiracy theories, the two airplanes that hit the World Trade Center were military airplane substitutes that were painted to look like United and American Airlines commercial jets. These military "drones" were remotely controlled by the U.S. government.
When questioned about the passenger phone calls, conspiracy theorists believe that the U.S. government somehow faked them, with technology that can fake the voices of these passengers so well to trick the passengers' family members to whom they were speaking.
Fact
Here are the calls that took place:
American Airlines Flight 11
Betty Ong's phone call
About five minutes after the hijacking began on American Airlines Flight 11, Betty Ong contacted the American Airlines Southeastern Reservations Office in Cary, North Carolina, via an AT&T airphone to report an emergency aboard the flight. This was the first of several occasions on 9/11 when flight attendants took action outside the scope of their training, which emphasized that in a hijacking, they were to communicate with the cockpit crew. The emergency call lasted approximately 25 minutes, as Ong calmly and professionally relayed information about events taking place aboard the airplane to authorities on the ground.
At 8:19, Ong reported: "The cockpit is not answering, somebody's stabbed in business class-and I think there's Mace-that we can't breathe-I don't know, I think we're getting hijacked." She then told of the stabbings of the two flight attendants.
At 8:21, one of the American employees receiving Ong's call in North Carolina, Nydia Gonzalez, alerted the American Airlines operations center in Fort Worth, Texas, reaching Craig Marquis, the manager on duty. Marquis soon realized this was an emergency and instructed the airline's dispatcher responsible for the flight to contact the cockpit. At 8:23, the dispatcher tried unsuccessfully to contact the aircraft. Six minutes later, the air traffic control specialist in American's operations center contacted the FAA's Boston Air Traffic Control Center about the flight. The center was already aware of the problem.
At 8:26, Ong reported that the plane was "flying erratically." A minute later, Flight 11 turned south. American also began getting identifications of the hijackers, as Ong and then Sweeney passed on some of the seat numbers of those who had gained unauthorized access to the cockpit.
At 8:38, Ong told Gonzalez that the plane was flying erratically again. Around this time Sweeney told Woodward that the hijackers were Middle Easterners, naming three of their seat numbers. One spoke very little English and one spoke excellent English. The hijackers had gained entry to the cockpit, and she did not know how. The aircraft was in a rapid descent.
At 8:44, Gonzalez reported losing phone contact with Ong.
Madeline "Amy" Sweeney's phone call
At 8:25, and again at 8:29, Amy Sweeney got through to the American Flight Services Office in Boston but was cut off after she reported someone was hurt aboard the flight. Three minutes later, Sweeney was reconnected to the office and began relaying updates to the manager, Michael Woodward.
Sweeney calmly reported on her line that the plane had been hijacked; a man in first class had his throat slashed; two flight attendants had been stabbed-one was seriously hurt and was on oxygen while the other's wounds seemed minor; a doctor had been requested; the flight attendants were unable to contact the cockpit; and there was a bomb in the cockpit. Sweeney told Woodward that she and Ong were trying to relay as much information as they could to people on the ground.
At 8:41, Sweeney told Woodward that passengers in coach were under the impression that there was a routine medical emergency in first class. Other flight attendants were busy at duties such as getting medical supplies while Ong and Sweeney were reporting the events.
About 8:44, Sweeney reported to Woodward," Something is wrong. We are in a rapid descent . . . we are all over the place." Woodward asked Sweeney to look out the window to see if she could determine where they were. Sweeney responded: "We are flying low. We are flying very, very low. We are flying way too low." Seconds later she said, "Oh my God we are way too low." The phone call ended.
United Airlines Flight 175
Peter Hanson's phone call
At 8:52, in Easton, Connecticut, a man named Lee Hanson received a phone call from his son Peter, a passenger on United Airlines Flight 175. His son told him: "I think they've taken over the cockpit-An attendant has been stabbed- and someone else up front may have been killed. The plane is making strange moves. Call United Airlines-Tell them it's Flight 175, Boston to LA." Lee Hanson then called the Easton Police Department and relayed what he had heard.
Flight attendant's phone call
Also at 8:52, a male flight attendant called a United office in San Francisco, reaching Marc Policastro. The flight attendant reported that the flight had been hijacked, both pilots had been killed, a flight attendant had been stabbed, and the hijackers were probably flying the plane. The call lasted about two minutes, after which Policastro and a colleague tried unsuccessfully to contact the flight.
Brian David Sweeney's phone calls
At 8:59, Flight 175 passenger Brian David Sweeney tried to call his wife, Julie. He left a message on their home answering machine that the plane had been hijacked. He then called his mother, Louise Sweeney, told her the flight had been hijacked, and added that the passengers were thinking about storming the cockpit to take control of the plane away from the hijackers.
Peter Hanson's second phone call
At 9:00, Lee Hanson received a second call from his son Peter:
"It's getting bad, Dad-A stewardess was stabbed-They seem to have knives and Mace-They said they have a bomb-It's getting very bad on the plane-Passengers are throwing up and getting sick-The plane is making jerky movements-I don't think the pilot is flying the plane-I think we are going down-I think they intend to go to Chicago or someplace and fly into a building-Don't worry, Dad- If it happens, it'll be very fast-My God, my God."
The call ended abruptly. Lee Hanson had heard a woman scream just before it cut off. He turned on a television, and in her home so did Louise Sweeney. Both then saw the second aircraft hit the World Trade Center.
American Airlines Flight 77
Renee May's phone call
At 9:12, Renee May called her mother, Nancy May, in Las Vegas. She said her flight (American Airlines Flight 77) was being hijacked by six individuals who had moved them to the rear of the plane. She asked her mother to alert American Airlines. Nancy May and her husband promptly did so.
Barbara Olson's phone call
At some point between 9:16 and 9:26, Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, the solicitor general of the United States. She reported that the flight had been hijacked, and the hijackers had knives and box cutters. She further indicated that the hijackers were not aware of her phone call, and that they had put all the passengers in the back of the plane. About a minute into the conversation, the call was cut off. Solicitor General Olson tried unsuccessfully to reach Attorney General John Ashcroft.
Shortly after the first call, Barbara Olson reached her husband again. She reported that the pilot had announced that the flight had been hijacked, and she asked her husband what she should tell the captain to do. Ted Olson asked for her location and she replied that the aircraft was then flying over houses. Another passenger told her they were traveling northeast. The Solicitor General then informed his wife of the two previous hijackings and crashes. She did not display signs of panic and did not indicate any awareness of an impending crash. At that point, the second call was cut off.
United Airlines Flight 93
Thirteen passengers and crew members aboard United Airlines Flight 93 are known to have made calls. Except for two calls, all the calls came from onboard airphones, with information known about which airphones (which seat numbers) the calls came from.
The two cell phone calls (one from CeeCee Lyles and the other from Ed Felt) both occurred at 9:58. At that moment, the aircraft had descended to 5,000 ft above sea level (the elevations in that part of Pennsylvania are ~2,000+ ft). So, the plane was only ~2,000 - 3,000 feet above the ground at that point. The calls were dropped after ~1 minute, probably when the cell phone system attempted to transfer them to the next cell phone tower.
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Phone_calls
Please go here to see details on the calls:
United Airlines Flight 93 - Phone calls http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/United_Airlines_Flight_...
Cell phones - about the cell phone calls
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Cell_phones
I can not discount this information,
But, this information doesn't dispell the truth that the government knew 911 was going to happen, and that the government allowed 911 to happen.
Adam Kokesh is the Man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFQV2dgyXJE
Please Donate Today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDgz0rODZU&feature=g-upl
Now....why can't you discount it?
You give this your rubber stamp of approval and truth....why? What do you know about what is purported above? What information are you privy too that allows such surety that what is stated above has even an ounce of truth attached to it? Um...I heard it on the TV and read in Time magazine...
Get real...."I can not discount this information"...WTF?
Do some jumping jacks, take a cold shower, drink a pot of java...jeez dude
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
Why are we wasting time on this?
Nothing is going to change the fact that 9/11 was a false flag. Nothing. We have scientific proof and the laws of phyics on our side. Now quit wasting your life on something that is a dead end. You are only feeding the trolls and shills.
Let this be the last post from a 9/11 Truther on this thread. Just ignore the obvious lies and they will go away. We are keeping lists of all these people and they will be prosecuted when the time comes for covering up treason and high crimes.
"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy
"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."
RPL - getting kinda late in Tel Aviv isn't it?
The Irish Did It. Or did they?
What makes a conspiracy theory? Read some 9/11-related articles and sites, you might think it's a list of what are claimed to be anomalies in the official account of what happened, but that doesn't seem enough to us.
After all, if you're building conspiracy theories by raising individual questions alone then you can "prove" just about anything you like. All it takes is a little selective research, emphasising the points you make, ignoring anything to the contrary, and you're done. Want to prove that the Irish were involved in 9/11, for instance? Let's see if that's possible. And keep in mind that, although we're using real news reports, this theory is just fiction. We just want to see what you can create from nothing.
We might start with reports from the day, and the numbers of phone calls the Irish Government received from worried relatives.
The Irish Ministry of Foreign Affairs says it has received between 2,500 and 3,000 calls to its dedicated phone lines and has set up a database of those unaccounted for.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1540543.stm
And yet, if we look online we find only Irish citizen died ( http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/COUNTRY... ). Only one? In New York? That's surely suspicious. Why did so many Irishman not turn up for work on 9/11? Who could have told them?
Maybe it was the NYPD, or someone in the Fire Department. After all, there's no shortage of Irish families there. Or as this article put it:
The FDNY, thus, remains a “family business.” It just so happens that many of those families were — and are — Irish.
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishinamerica/columnists/Si...
That’s just circumstantial, but we have much more, including Irishmen reported suspiciously close to the scene:
FOUR Irish construction workers, feared dead by their families in the World Trade Center attack, turned up alive, although seriously injured, under different names in a Manhattan hospital.
The four, all natives of Co Cavan in Ireland, were among the first evacuated from the World Trade Center where they had been working under assumed names...
The Sinn Fein MP who was asked by the families to intervene, confirmed to the Irish Voice on Tuesday that the men had been found.
Earlier this week he had called on the INS to issue a statement that they would not prosecute any undocumented who were caught up in the blast.
The INS subsequently did so, and the story of the men began to emerge. Because the men are undocumented and also worked under false names, they greatly feared INS prosecution.
There have been persistent reports in the Irish community about the men since the World Trade Center blasts, though none substantiated until now.
As the Irish Voice reported last week, another undocumented Irish worker using false identification who narrowly escaped with his life stated that he saw many other Irish undocumented construction workers going up to a higher floor on the morning that the blasts occurred.
While stressing that they may have all come down safely, he says he has no information on their whereabouts.
Meanwhile, fears of INS consequences for illegals have been abated with a statement from INS commissioner James Ziglar.
According to Ziglar, any employer who lost illegally employed workers in the World Trade Center will not suffer government prosecution, nor will the workers themselves.
http://web.archive.org/web/20041029064706/http://www.irishtr...
“Construction workers” in the WTC? That’s a very convenient cover for planting explosives, and the fact that they were working under assumed names is very suspect. We have more “Irish undocumented construction workers going up to a higher floor" on 9/11, and note the Freudian slip, "on the morning that the blasts occurred". Were these Irishmen actually part of the demolition team, making final preparations for the "blasts" that would bring down the towers?
(And let’s be honest here. We’re building an artificial conspiracy theory, but if that article referred to Israelis rather than Irishmen, then it would be commonly used on 9/11 sites. No question.)
Of course these men on their own couldn't have been responsible for the whole thing. But let's look at their connections for a moment. Note that they spoke first of all to a Sinn Fein member of Parliament: do you recall why Sinn Fein were in the news, just weeks before September 11?
...the news that three well-known members of the Provisional IRA were being held in custody after apparently taking part in a five-week summer training camp with a Colombian terrorist group had thrown another spoke in the wheels of the peace process.
Exactly what the IRA men were up to in the malaria-ridden jungles of South America remains a mystery. But one thing is for certain, nobody believes they were merely engaged in "sightseeing", as they have told prosecutors...
Sinn Fein has been trying to distance itself from the three men, but the crampons the party hierarchy attached to the moral high ground after Unionists rejected the IRA's moves on decommissioning have begun to slip.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,5386...
It seems these IRA men were accused of working with "the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), a well-armed... guerrilla group funded by drug money". So what? Well, FARC have interesting connections of their own.
One point in the original proffer made the case for links between FARC and al Qaida, including the presence of FARC personnel in Afghanistan as part of a close relationship between the two groups. "It is believed that FARC terrorists have received training in Al Qaida terrorist caps in Afghanistan," Beers says in the original document.
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2002/09/2475.shtml
So could FARC's admitted "close relationship" with al Qaida have aided the Irish masterminds of this plot in setting up their patsies? Perhaps there was a Columbian motive in gaining a share of the distribution end of the lucrative opium market, which could restart once the Taliban had been overthrown.
Was there American involvement in the plot, though? Maybe so. Consider the article earlier: the “undocumented” workers at the WTC, potentially important witnesses. Were they questioned to find out what they were doing? No, the INS simply agreed to let them go, and they were flown out of the country in a hurry. Don’t you find that strange?
And then there’s Richard Haas, US special envoy from President Bush himself. Where do you think he was on September 11 2001? Why, in Dublin -- what a coincidence... And not one you’ll find mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report.
Richard Haass, then a United States special envoy, was in Dublin for a meeting with Bertie Ahern, then Taoiseach (Irish Prime Minister), when news of the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington were passed to the two men. Richard Haass decided to continue with his meetings in Dublin and then to travel to Belfast for pre-arranged meetings with political leaders in Northern Ireland.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch01.htm
Haas would surely have met Richard Egan, the US Ambassador to Dublin, while he was there. And look who Egan was photographed meeting, only a month later:
Ambassador Richard Egan was photographed meeting Joe Cahill, the former head of the IRA's financial network...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/10...
The same article tells us that "Egan is a former businessman from Massachusetts who was the founder and CEO of EMC, a computer data storage company". EMC? Look into them and you'll find they're a big player in the IT world, who work with Government agencies and have done very well since 9/11, according to this "Homeland Security and National Defense" section in Fortune magazine:
Automated networked storage solutions from EMC are currently being utilized by many federal and regional government agencies, as well as by leading corporations around the world. Higgins noted that, since 9/11, corporations have focused on the need to implement systems...
http://www.timeinc.net/fortune/services/sections/fortune/sci...
Are we supposed to believe this is all just a coincidence?
Simple answer: yes. It's nonsense. We've used real stories but quoted selectively (there’s no link between FARC and al Qaeda, for instance), and created fictional connections. It's not bad for 30 minutes work, though, and imagine what you might discover if we set thousands of people looking through books, newspapers and the web. How many Irish connections might we find? How many September 11 stories can be portrayed in a way to suit our needs? How many "unanswered questions about Ireland and 9/11" could we find? And if we managed to discover 50 or 100, do you have any doubt that some people would start to wonder if there "might be something in it", even though we knew we were just building a fiction?
Now obviously none of this means that some individual points of a conspiracy theory aren't worth investigating. 9/11 issues such as whether the towers fell "too fast", or "NORAD war games interfered with the FAA response" are relevant questions that deserve fair consideration. Nor are we saying that people raising these issues are actively making things up.
On the other hand, a conspiracy theory can't rely on the number of "anomalies" alone. Because as we've seen, you can find issues, and questions, and coincidences anywhere, if you look for long enough and aren’t interested in contrary information. A true theory is something more, something that links all these points together in a coherent whole, and, crucially, makes more sense than the alternative explanations.
In 9/11 terms, for instance, that doesn't just mean saying "I don’t think there’s enough wreckage at the Pentagon for a plane, it was probably a missile instead". It also involves finding a plausible reason why you would use anything other than Flight 77, and risk the whole conspiracy if you were discovered.
And it doesn't just mean saying "thermite in the basement would explain the reports of molten steel". It also means explaining why thermite is required at all, calculating how much you'd need to keep burning and produce molten steel for weeks, and why the conspirators would have used so much more than necessary.
A true theory means no longer just picking at one account, then, but having the courage to produce your own complete version, and explaining why it's better. It's hard work, it may mean you have to accept some of your treasured beliefs aren't actually anomalies at all, but ultimately it's the only way non-believers in the rest of the world will ever be persuaded to take you seriously.
http://www.911myths.com/html/the_irish_did_it___or_did_they....
Rather than expend soooo uch energy on such a divisive
issue...why don't we focus on exposing the owners of the fed?
9/11 was one event in 3 centuries of events.
After you watch Money masters 9/11 gets real small.
We need people to stay with the truth as getting into debates over details is exactly what he owners of the fed WANT.
The 9/11 debate has achieved NOTHING in 8 years.....good bye 9/11 debate.
Unify
For you perhaps...
some of us can chew gum and walk at the same time, however.
If I use your logic, the debate to end this current Fed has been going on since 1913 and has gotten nowhere... so why bother?
Focus on what you can and feel comfortable with.. but don't bother telling me what to be concerned with and where to expend my energy.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
Passenger Manifests
Who was on the 9/11 planes? There are lists of passengers online, but they’re not all accurate (some are actually very inaccurate), and very few include the alleged hijackers. None of the lists have an official stamp of approval, either, which has in itself led to many theories. Maybe the hijackers were never on board, for instance. Maybe most of the passengers don’t even exist.
We don’t actually subscribe to these ideas, but without any official documentation it’s hard to prove a point, one way or the other. Which is why we were very interested to see a photo of what looked like a passenger manifest in the Terry McDermott book, Perfect Soldiers. We emailed the author, and he said yes: apparently these were amongst a bunch of investigative files he obtained from the FBI while researching his book. 24 hours later we had copies, too. So what would they tell us?
One immediately obvious point is that our lists show the alleged hijackers on each of the four planes. Another indication that the “hijackers weren’t on the manifests” claims are false.
Of course that, alone, will be enough for some to claim the documents are fake. And because we obtained them indirectly, there’s no way to prove otherwise: we believe McDermott is an entirely trustworthy source, but there’s no telling what happened before the documents reached him.
It’s worth bearing in mind that these aren’t the only reported documents to show alleged hijackers on the planes, though. The Boston Globe published the seat numbers of the suspects on the two planes hijacked locally to them, and provided the complete seating plan for Flight 11. These lists do nothing more than confirm what we already knew.
Further, these documents actually raise additional questions of their own. In particular, Mark Bingham is not included on the Flight 93 list, and there are five passengers missing from the Flight 175 list. See the individual lists for more.
There are technical complications, too. The documents originated as a fax, which has then been scanned, and finally saved in JPEG format. Every step has reduced print quality, and in some cases it’s now, well, rubbish. In addition, one name is missing completely (it was left off the bottom of one page, or the start of the next), and two others can just barely be deciphered.
Another issue arises from the document content. Although they provide passenger names, the lists used fixed fields, so (for instance) only the initial 5 letters of a person’s first name are printed. This surely wouldn’t be the case in a full manifest... Would it? So perhaps what we have is a lower value document, printed output from some other system.
These would seem to make unlikely fakes, then, but now you can decide for yourself. Download the documents themselves by clicking here (7 JPEGs in a ZIP file, 3.5MB), or peruse the text versions here:
Flight 11
Flight 77
Flight 93
Flight 175
http://www.911myths.com/html/the_passengers.html
Nice cut and paste A**hole
I can do even better with Adobe Pagemaker and my old yearbooks.
Now please discuss who these people are, the services held in various cities all over the country, their hopes and dreams, the families they left behind....you know...the kind of stuff we heard about the Manhattan victims.
Which of them have still irate loved ones pressing Klaxon buttons all over town regarding the problems with what they have been told...you know...like the families of the Manhatten victims.
Yer a dolt or a paid troll who's spinner and hook are still empty here.
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
7 of those highjackers are still alive.
They must have forgot they were needed for highjacking duty and missed the plane. http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/9-11/9-11...
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
The Still Alive Claim
The story...
Many of the hijackers as named by America are still alive.
Our take...
This has never struck us as an idea that made much sense, especially if you believe the US Government were behind 9/11. If you were constructing a fake terrorist attack because you wanted to attack Afghanistan, or Iraq, then wouldn’t you involve a few Afghans or Iraqis? But no, we’re supposed to believe that they made them inconvenient Saudis, instead.
Worse still, the planners picked live Saudis almost at random, despite the fact that they’d be sure to come forward and spoil the whole thing. Why would anyone do that?
What’s more, all these stories occurred very soon after 9/11. Once the FBI released their official list of hijackers, complete with photographs (on the 27th September), these stories disappeared. This suggests to us they were only ever a mixup over names, and once the photos appeared as well these individuals realised they weren’t wanted men after all.
We’ve not alone in this, either. A BBC story is constantly cited as evidence that some of those named as the hijackers are still alive, for instance, but the company has now said it was just a “confusion over names and identities”:
A five-year-old story from our archive has been the subject of some recent editorial discussion here. The story, written in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, was about confusion at the time surrounding the names and identities of some of the hijackers. This confusion was widely reported and was also acknowledged by the FBI.
The story has been cited ever since by some as evidence that the 9/11 attacks were part of a US government conspiracy.
We later reported on the list of hijackers, thereby superseding the earlier report. In the intervening years we have also reported in detail on the investigation into the attacks, the 9/11 commission and its report.
We’ve carried the full report, executive summary and main findings and, as part of the recent fifth anniversary coverage, a detailed guide to what’s known about what happened on the day. But conspiracy theories have persisted. The confusion over names and identities we reported back in 2001 may have arisen because these were common Arabic and Islamic names.
In an effort to make this clearer, we have made one small change to the original story. Under the FBI picture of Waleed al Shehri we have added the words "A man called Waleed Al Shehri..." to make it as clear as possible that there was confusion over the identity. The rest of the story remains as it was in the archive as a record of the situation at the time.
We recently asked the FBI for a statement, and this is, as things stand, the closest thing we have to a definitive view: The FBI is confident that it has positively identified the nineteen hijackers responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Also, the 9/11 investigation was thoroughly reviewed by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States and the House and Senate Joint Inquiry. Neither of these reviews ever raised the issue of doubt about the identity of the nineteen hijackers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy...
And in fact if you look at the details, you’ll find that mistaken identity seems the most likely explanation. Read more in our analyses of the most common “still alive” stories: Abdulaziz Al Omari, Ahmed Al-Nami, Khalid Al Mihdhar, Mohammed Atta, Said al-Ghamdi, Salem Al-Hamzi, Wail Al-Shehri, Waleed Al-Shehri and Mohand Alshehri.
What’s more, Saudi Arabia have now accepted that their citizens, as named by the US, were involved. Why would they do that if any of them were still alive, and so plainly innocent?
Saudi Arabia acknowledged for the first time that 15 of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens...
Previously, Saudi Arabia had said the citizenship of 15 of the 19 hijackers was in doubt despite U.S. insistence they were Saudis. But Interior Minister Prince Nayef told The Associated Press that Saudi leaders were shocked to learn 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
"The names that we got confirmed that," Nayef said in an interview. "Their families have been notified."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/02/06/saudi.htm
And subsequently a video called “the 19 Martyrs” was released and partly aired on al Jazeera, which reportedly featured photographs of hijackers, and included bin Ladin giving a brief description of each. There was a detailed page on the video at ee.1asphost.com/raehatualmisk/19.html , and that’s gone now, but we saved a copy locally for posterity. We don’t know if the video is real, or this is an accurate account of it, but if true then it is another indication that the named hijackers were involved, and they’re now all dead.
http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html
Flight 93 went down....
in a field? Really? Would anyone that has evidence of a Boeing commercial aircraft crashing in a field in Pennsylvania please provide evidence of that. I have looked at the pictures and the videos as well as news reports from the "alleged crash site." Nobody seems to have any evidence of that. If 60,000 tons of airplane crash in a field we should find about 60,000 tons of airplane parts...though they may be in small pieces. Where are the engines? the landing gear, miles of wire and cable? The only thing I see is a hole in the ground (a bomb crater) with a bunch of burned up scrap metal in it... Oh! and a terrorist red bandanna (in perfect condition) which can be seen in a plastic evidence bag.
Can we get a DNA check on that bandanna?
I do not know what happened to flight 93...but I do know what did not happen to flight 93. It did not crash in a field in Pennsylvania.
Hmmm...not sure about that one...
but I doubt it hit the ground in one piece...
http://www.projectcamelot.org/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93.html
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
Did they call any of the 15 tactical fighter groups
responsible for northeast air defense?
Did anyone call the flight training schools and ask how them how any of the hijackers learned how to fly a jumbo jet when practicing on single engine props between visits to strip clubs?
I know, I know...they boned up with the Boeing manual in the back seat of the rental car on the way to Logan.
I know, none of these guys were on the passenger manifests and I know none of them were on video boarding the planes and why should any air national guard unit do their duty?
This version of the gov't story is the worst it is just soooo lame that it seems that the gov't made it lame on PURPOSE.
This is why we need to forget about 9/11 and go after the owners of the fed..................please?
Unify
Call theories are moot
Unless we learn of an alternative fate for the people in those planes...chances are they were flown into a building or went down in a Penn. field.
This of course has nothing to do with the fact that the building were demolished by wired explosives. This is the real point worth discussing.
In any event, I do wonder (though have no conspiratorial suspicions) why those phones are no longer on the planes. I understand if the business model did not work for ATT and I have heard that they want the ability for people to use their cell phones and the technology for that is on its way...Still, given the important role they played on 911 seems like there would be some discussion of the government requiring that these phones remain on the plane and remain operational subsidizing them even for public safety reasons...
Exactly who were those people?
Who were they? Where are their loved ones in the battle for 911 truth? Has any "plane" family member stuck their chin out in the families' fights for answers? Do you know ANYONE who lost somebody in a plane that day? How about...do you know anyone who knows anyone that lost a loved one on a plane that day? How many interviews have you read or heard with "plane" family members that were not directly related to those phone calls? I have two degrees of separation from about twenty people who lost their lives in Manhattan, yet I can't find any degrees of separation from "plane" victims...curious huh?
As to the sky-phones, they were not then, nor are they now, ubiquitous on commercial airliners. They are a specialty order item for the Airlines themselves and have never been a serious revenue source for them. Since they have to pay for the upgrade to the planes that they order, they simply don't order them. The assumption is that the vast majority of planes are equipped with these phones when the truth is that they are not. In fact, it is exactly the opposite...a vast minority of planes have such phones. Oh...except or every plane that crashed that day...
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
I wish we could know more about the victims
But Olson was on the plane...her death would be tough to cover up if it happened somewhere else...and the let's roll guy of course...his mom pimped his death forever...if he was alive someone would have called BS.
Have you ever heard of or read Svali?
So Olsen is dead and he is dead...and a few others are dead as well...sacrifice?...murder?...plane crash? But who are all of the others that "peopled" those planes.
I guess what you are assuming is that you were told the truth...by whom...the press? If I told you my wife died from drowning and the press swore to it via repetitious meme, would you believe us? What would you say to her at our next dinner party?
I guess the point here is, Olsen was an insider so...
What are the others connections and histories? I am not putting "Theory" together here. I'm simply pointing out that you are assuming what you do not know for certain and relying on those assumptions to posture how things couldn't have happened.
We have a long way to go with this stuff but, we now know that lies abound on virtually everything that we were told...so why would this "story" get a bye in your mind?
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
There you go!
That's exactly why those four planes were inactive all that time before the 9/11 flights.. they were being upgraded to make it easier for the victims.. err.. passengers to provide additional evidence!
:)
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
I am still confused...
RPL states:
"If you have to admit that the airphone calls are real, then you will have to admit that 19 hijackers pulled off the attacks. Then all your theories go down the drain and you will realize that you have wasted a good deal of your life."
I am still not understanding how the airphones caused three buildings to collapse three steel framed buildings at near free fall speed? I do not see the connection.
~Mark Twain
Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, and set those BRUSH FIRES everywhere you go and in all you do!
If middle eastern hijackers carried out the attacks, then your
theory makes absolutely no sense. 19 hijackers flew planes into the twin towers which were rigged with explosives, thermite, or whatever ahead of time by the government. How did the hijackers know where to fly the planes so they would not hit the pre-rigged explosives? How did the government know that the attacks would be successful? The governments going to rig 3 buildings with no guarantee of success. Come on now... Who were the hijackers? Why would the government take down the buildings when terrorists flying planes into the buildings would have been enough to start a war?
I'm not taking a side, just pointing out your flawed logic
The buildings didn't instantly fall when the airplanes hit them, it took quite a while. So there would be no need for the terrorists to fly into predetermined spots. 9-11 resulted in quite a bit more than starting a war.
Have you watched Zero? I really wish you would. It's a shame when people just rely on their own opinions and feelings. Something very fishy occurred on 9-11 and there is no denying it. What about WTC 7? Not a plane involved, but still fell just like the others. You don't find that the least bit odd?
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I often wonder if these debunkers can't afford better than
dial-up . It would be frustrating as hell to find out you've been arguing a point with someone that just didn't have the ability to watch a youtube of google video .
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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
Oh.
Sorry... there is an easy answer for that.
Most debunkers figure if they can get JUST ONE little factiod of the entire scenario somewhat correct, then naturally the rest of the facts just ~poof~ in a cloud of illogic and you stop thinking again, or something.
Proof that the department of education gets exactly what it pays for.
Hope that helped!
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
Then how do you explain the terrorist's passport that they found
huh? If terrorists didn't do it, how could they have found one of their passports? Or the dumb terrorist who left his bag at the airport with "how to fly an airplane" in it. How do you explain that if terrorists didn't do it?
Debunkers are actually just mentally retarded. Even the people who think the smoke was satan have more sense than debunkers.
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The 9/11 Conspiracy guys are retarded.
Just as it's wrong to find complicated conspiracy where simple incompetence will explain everything, it's also wrong to presume evil motives where simple mental retardation may be the explanation.
Loose Change didn't invent the 9/11 conspiracy. The conspiracy theories started loooong before 9/11, because there is a core group of people out there who quite simply believe every conspiracy theory ever suspected, ever, by anybody.
For instance, the Loose Change guys actually guest hosted a talk radio show recently. When a caller suggested that we should be more worried about the government controlling the weather, the guys agreed that of course the government has weather control machines but this 9/11 thing is also important. Hey, why not.
Now, fans of this site know, I don't be trustin' me no government. I've put in time at various intelligence agencies and at one major government contractor (Kellogg, Brown & Root). I've worked for these people and let me tell you, the government is a mess. And elected officials, don't get me started on those people. They'll do anything it takes to get votes.
But here's the thing. The 9/11 "Truth" guys, the Loose Changers and all the many websites, they don't just think government is corrupt. They think everybody, and I mean everybody, is either evil on a demonic scale, or a mindless sheep.
For instance, how much money would it take to get you to kill 3,000 random, innocent Americans? Or, say you stumbled upon somebody else's plan to kill 3,000 innocent Americans. How much would it take to get you to stay silent afterward?
A hundred dollars? Two hundred? Two hundred fifty?
Well if the conspiracy guys are right, there are people reading this right now who took that deal. No kidding.
Here's why. The entire 9/11 "Truth" movement rests on the idea that the World Trade Center towers were rigged with explosives, a "Controlled Demolition" like you see with old buildings. That's the whole thing. They say the buildings couldn't have come down otherwise.
Forget the fact that no experts on the subject agree with them. That's not the point right now. We're just trying to get inside these guys' heads.
Now, maybe you could keep the plan itself a secret. A few dozen murderous black ops guys, demolitions experts with a grudge against the USA, maybe they've been brainwashed. Who knows. Maybe it could be done. People point out that the Manhattan Project to build the atomic bomb was kept a secret, so why not this?
But the cover-up. Holy shit, guys. Covering this thing up after the fact would be like trying to keep the atomic bomb a secret after Hiroshima. Just wait 'till you hear this.
First, picture the demolitions teams wiring up the World Trade Center towers with explosives prior to the attack. Obviously you couldn't do it during business hours, since it'd be kind of hard to explain to the 100,000 people who worked at or visited the WTC towers on any given day why you had a huge chunk of wall torn out and were wiring up a bomb on the steel beams there.
World Trade Center observation deck. Notice: people are there.
I mean, keep in mind, I don't know how big of a job that would be (no one has ever demolished a building that size before) but a building just half the size of one WTC tower took 4,000 separate charges to bring down. Four thousand.
That job took seven months of prep work... and they had the run of an abandoned building, without having to hide their work from 100,000 people every day. Our demolition crew, on the other hand, can work only at night and has to spend the last bit of every shift carefully repairing the wall and hiding any evidence of charges or detonators as not to be discovered during the day.
Huge teams of demolitions experts, who had no problem wiring a building full of innocent New Yorkers to explode, hired in secret, worked every night for what had to be a year (and that's only if they had a big enough crew) placing maybe 10,000 separate charges in each tower and another few thousand in WTC 7 (the smaller WTC tower that also collapsed, later in the day on 9/11).
And nobody notices.
That's right. That's the theory they're putting out there. 100,000 DVDs they've sold with this.
Truckloads of bombs, dozens of mysterious workers, going in and out of the building, night after night. Security at the building doesn't catch them, Port Authority Police don't catch them, random eyewitnesses who stumble across the operation and call the cops don't catch them, maintenance workers who stumble across wet paint and repaired walls and bits of strange wire don't catch them, security cameras don't catch them.
The bomb-sniffing dogs who were brought in from time to time (remember, these buildings were bombed by terrorists in 1993) who are trained to find even one bomb, fail to notice the 10,000 bombs lining their building.
If you're saying that nothing could possibly be more retarded than that, you're wrong.
No, they're just getting started. It's at this stage of the hypothetical plot when the 9/11 conspiracy guys say the real cover-up began. This is when all of the many, many people who could have blown the lid off the whole thing chose to stay silent because they were paid off by the government.
That includes hundreds of private researchers and government employees who prepared gigantic reports about the collapse of the towers from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).
Also, officials in the New York City Fire Department.
All were written fat checks, say the conspiracy guys, to cover up the murder of 3,000 New Yorkers. Keep in mind, some of them were New Yorkers themselves - all of the FDNY guys were - and some of them had friends who died in the towers. The theory even says it was the commander of the FDNY itself who detonated one of the buildings, and therefore he was in on the decision to kill 343 of his own firefighters and 60 police officers.
For money. If that were you... how big would that check have to be? These are people he saw every day, worked with every day. He went to weddings, birthday parties, to baseball games with these guys. In the mind of the 9/11 conspiracy, he'd kill them all for a big enough pile of cash.
Would you?
There's more. We have hundreds, if not thousands, of reporters and writers who researched the collapse, including the nine reporters and dozens of experts for the huge Popular Mechanics article on the subject.
They were paid off, too. And paid enough to walk away from the story of a lifetime, a chance to blow the lid off the conspiracy. Paid enough to refuse a sure Pulitzer and a lifetime of fame and riches as one of history's greatest heroes. And paid in such a way that no other reporters would notice and get jealous or ask questions. These people do tend to be the curious type, you know.
We're getting a nice sized payroll here. Now let's add in the hundreds of people from a dozen different agencies and police departments who claim to have helped clean up flight 93 wreckage, including 300 volunteers. The conspiracy guys say there was no plane, therefore they were paid to lie, along with all of the witnesses in Pennsylvania who claim to have seen the plane go down.
But wait, there's more. Because there are hundreds of thousands of civil engineers and structural engineers in the world (people who are experts in what makes buildings fall down) and lots of demolitions experts. Approximately zero of them say the 9/11 attacks looked like bombed buildings. All of them either say outright that the demolition theory is asinine, or are silent in the face of what the Loose Changers say is video proof of mass murder so obvious even an uneducated jackass off the street can spot it.
The conspiracy guys' explanation?
You guessed it. They were paid to stay silent. Hey, why not? Probably half a million people there, but, you know. Since we've got the checkbook out anyway...
Also, think of all of the friends and family of these paid conspirators, who suddenly see all this mysterious wealth...
...Wouldn't some rumors get started?
You've got some hypothetical professor who was about to write a paper proving the towers were demolished, suddenly coming into Powerball-sized wealth and abandoning the paper at the same time... his wife never let it slip? His kids didn't object? All his jealous colleagues who noticed the sudden new cars and new home and elaborate vacations, nobody asked questions? Nobody made an anonymous call to the IRS, just out of spite? All the bank employees who noticed thousands of mysterious deposits, all of which have to be reported to the IRS, that didn't leave a trail?
I mean, we're up to a sizeable portion of the US population here. Odds are you've passed some of these people on the street.
Today.
And keep in mind, this can't be chump change. Even in a world where every structural engineering desk jockey is okay with mass murder, they're still not going to risk jail and career ruin and walk away from a huge book deal for ten grand. Oh, no, it's got to be millions, per person, just to make it worth it. Even a dedicated conspirator would need to know he or she was set for life.
Let's say they wrote 500,000 checks (hell, you've got more than 120,000 people in the American Society of Civil Engineers alone, and they'd be the first ones to speak out). Say the average payout was ten million (barely enough to live rich the rest of your life, but let's just say). So that's 500,000 times ten million which is...
...Five TRILLION dollars.
That's about half of the value of all goods and services produced in the United States last year. Therefore the 9/11 conspiracy was, in terms of payroll, the single largest employer in the history of the world.
The board of directors of the 9/11 conspiracy
gather to await instructions (artists' rendering)
And here's the kicker...
100% of the people who were offered the deal, took it.
After all, we don't have a single person who has come running into the offices of the New York Times, waving a check and saying, "look! Here's a check for ten million smackers that the government gave me to be silent about 9/11! Can you believe these assholes? Now give me my book deal!"
Not one. Even with the lure of fame and fortune and a chance to go down in history as The Guy Who Saved American Democracy, even with the crushing guilt of seeing thousands of bodies hauled out of the rubble, even seeing the horrors of a nation turned inside out by war and paranoia that was completely manufactured as a gruesome hoax, some of these people having their own friends and families and colleagues die in the attacks, not one turned down the money... or took the money and came forward anyway.
And that, is the conspiracy mindset.
It's not a belief in corrupt leaders. Hell, we all believe in corrupt leaders. It's a belief in a corrupt everybody. It's driving around in a world where every single person you see out of your windshield is utterly bloodthirsty and amoral, all except for you and a few, brave friends. What could make you feel more important than that?
You can see the attraction right away. Most people, to feel special, have to actually do something special. But why not do what these guys do, and just make the rest of the world out to be wretched? Hell, once we've painted everyone else as mindless or murderous, all we have to do to feel superior to them is roll out of bed.
Remember what I said earlier about Dylan Avery and how it was probably just a desire for fame that drove him to do all this? Look at the parallel here. At the heart of all this is that basic human need to feel special somehow, twisted in the most warped and corrosive way imaginable.
In conclusion, the 9/11 Conspiracy Guys aren't evil and they aren't liars. They're merely filling a basic human need, using their imaginations and paranoia to elevate themselves to a level the real world will never elevate them to. Also, they're retarded.
The Verdict:
Liars? Retarded? They're probably both right. Just as the crooked televangelist steals from old widows who themselves have an honest faith in God, Dylan Avery and the Loose Change guys have made a nice name for themselves (and a nice profit) from a large group of true believers who have always lived at the fringes of society. These are the type who think the moon landing was a hoax, that Area 51 houses alien spacecraft.
And then you have the rank and file, the kids who watched the video and just plain didn't know any better because they didn't follow it up with any reading. They're not reading this, for instance.
No, they saw Loose Change and went charging into their favorite forum or chat room, screaming, "WATCH THIS BITCHWHORES LOOSE CHANGE IS GONNA CHANGE YOUR WORLD." By the time people started posting info that debunked it, it was kind of hard for them to back down without looking like an asshole. So, they stand by it.
So even if you strapped them down and forced them to read this, they'd just pick out one detail that they thought would give them reason to discredit the whole thing and dismiss it from their minds.
Article continues after this ad...
After all, nobody likes feeling like an asshole. But if we keep getting the real information out there, with time, the conspiracy silliness will fade away.
I have faith in humanity.
http://www.cracked.com/article_15740_p2.html
A Cell Phone in a plane in 2001 ?
http://web.archive.org/web/20060315214035/www.aldeilis.net/a...
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
Airphones are different.
They were in the seatback, next to the tray-tables. I used to use them until I found out how expensive they were.
But every seat had one, and it was possible to dial out.
Wrong...Fly Much?
The majority of planes in 2001 did not have seat back airphones...and this is true today as well.
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
Oh hey mr terrorist with the scary boxcutter ??
5'5" skinny terrorist :"Yes frightened captive ?"
Frightend Captive : "I was wondering if I could use this airphone to call the authorities so they will know what's happening up here !"
5'5" skinny terrorist : "Oh okay go ahead make your call I'm not in a hurry , Go right ahead make your call be sure to tell them exactly what is happening up here, Here look at my scary boxcutter and make sure you tell them that I am a 5 foot 5 skinny guy ."
Frightened Captive : "Oh okay thanks , I'll be sure to let them know ."
5'5" skinny terrorist : "Hey be sure to Tell Cheney he did a great job of keeping the skies clear."
Frightened Captive : "I'll tell him as long as you don't scratch me with that scary little knife."
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !