Ron Paul: The Immorality of Taxpayer Funded Abortion
by Ron Paul | Texas Straight Talk
July 27, 2009
Healthcare continues to dominate the agenda on Capitol Hill as House leadership and the administration try to ram through their big government healthcare plan. Fortunately, they have been unsuccessful so far, as there are many horrifying provisions tucked into this massive piece of legislation. One major issue is the public funding of elective abortions. The administration has already removed many longstanding restrictions on abortion, and is unwilling to provide straight answers to questions regarding the public funding of abortion in their plan. This is deeply troubling for those of us who do not want taxpayer dollars funding abortions.
Forcing pro-life taxpayers to subsidize abortion is evil and tyrannical. I have introduced the Taxpayer’s Freedom of Conscience Act (HR 1233) which forbids the use of any taxpayer funds for abortion, both here and overseas.
The most basic function of government is to protect life. It is unconscionable that government would enable the taking of it. However this is to be expected when government oversteps its constitutional bounds instead of protecting rights. When government supercedes this very limited role, it cannot help but advance the moral agenda of whoever is in power at the time, at the expense of the rights of others.
Free people should be left alone to follow their conscience and determine their own lifestyle as long as they do not interfere with other people doing the same. If morality is dictated by government, morality will change with every election. Even if you agree with the morality of the current politicians and think their ideas should be advanced, someday different people will inherit that power and use it for their own agendas. The wisdom of the constitution is that it keeps government out of these issues altogether.
Many say we must reform healthcare and treat it as a right, because that is the moral thing to do. Poor people should not go without healthcare in a just society. But too many forget the immorality of stealing from others in order to make this so. They also forget the morality and compassion that naturally exists in communities when government is not fomenting class warfare with wealth redistribution programs.
Many doctors willingly volunteer, accept barter or reduced payment from patients who can’t pay, or give away services for free. Many charities help the poor with food, housing and healthcare. These charities are much more responsive and accountable for helping people in need than government ever could be. This is the moral way that private individuals voluntarily deal with access to healthcare, but government intervention threatens to pull the rug out from this sort of volunteerism and replace it with mandates, taxes, red tape, wealth redistribution, and force.
The fact that the national healthcare overhaul could force taxpayers to subsidize abortions and may even force private insurers to cover abortions is more reason that this bill and the ideas behind it, are neither constitutional, moral, nor in the American people’s best interest.
http://www.house.gov/htbin/blog_inc?BLOG,tx14_paul,blog,999,...





















BUMP
For Ron Paul and the pre-born babies.
I can't respond to all the
I can't respond to all the comments made by the misinformed individuals who commented on this topic. So in general, REad over the previous comments before you debate.
Someone had the nerve to say:
"What will we do with 45 million unwanted babies?"
How about we love them you (bad word) !
You've given into the propaganda and you don't even realize it! Check yourself.
Children are our greatest gift. We are all equal, why should anyone get to make a choice over whether a being lives or dies? Don't use the rape argument anymore either people. Se my below comments to distinguish that myth aswell. Please grow up. And men I feel say the most about this issue. "Say its up to woman" and how well you underestimate us is just a reflection of why you feel the way you do. Women aren't babies like men. I swear we'd take over the country and fix it for you, if we weren't giving life and loving you all with so much. You think you'd be a libertarian (conservative,or on this website) if your mother hadnt put some sense into u somewhere!
Their are millions waiting to adopt. Many will adopt special needs children and more than one. Abortion is evil and I will fight it till the day I die.
Listen to the good Dr. on this one too. He has seen the a fragile life cut short, and once you do too, you won't be as complacent.
http://thestoryofagirl.com
www.girls4ronpaul.com
www.twitter.com/RonPaulGirl
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel." Patrick Henry
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
Ron Paul is
A GOD.
I can say never having met the man, that I love him.
He is a genius, a scholar and has the moral integrity of giant.
It is not ONLY what he says, by how he says it, and explains it. Then he lives it.
How about the immorality of forced payment of taxes for ???
Stealing people's property for any purpose is wrong.
If I were to rob you would it make it OK if I were to use to the money to feed someone who is homeless? What if I were to use it to provide housing for someone who is homeless? What if I use that stolen money of yours to hire someone to defend me? How about to educate my children? How about if I used that stolen money to hire thugs who'd go steal more money from other people? Would any of those reasons make my theft acceptable? No?
So why is it acceptable when the government steals from you and does those things?
Sorry posted in wrong place before
I don't think some of you really are all the way on board with the idea of individual rights, Ron Paul, or C4L... if you are pro-choice? But Im glad some Obama people are coming around...You kinda missed the point that our first duty is to protect the innocent and its not 'your choice" when it involves another life. I feel like I can say this to you thout it being taken as a view that Im just a high andmighty bitch with no compassion for women. Im not, promise. I used to be partial to the abortion case to. I thank God he let me see the truth. I was raped suppressed it and then was pregnant contemplating abortion, I had the baby and gave her for adoption. Abortion would have killed a part of me. If you have never had one, believe me it is no "free choice" for anyone...baby or the woman. It was created to depopulate and Margret Sanger never cared on bit about women. If we care to educate children. We have to care to stop these lies. It was too damn easy for me to walk in and kill my little girl without a thought. That isn't America under the constitution!
Thats all. Im kinda overly opinionated on the subject, I know...
I don't think rape even constitutes the taking of a life (my little girls has impacted so many families. She is a perfect little blessing, and i doubt even Margret Sanger wouldn't change her mind after one look at her) And I'm no saint. I almost killed my own daughter, but some innate instinct kicked in and took over.
This baby here: (http://www.thestoryofagirl.com/2009/07/29/returned-to-womb-a...) was born at 6 months and put back in. They are little people from the beginning. Woman's bodies feel and are intune with the child. Both die in abortion.
Returned to womb after life-saving surgery, she arrived 10 weeks later
Meet baby who was born twice
June 6: When her mother was six months pregnant, baby Macie Hope was taken out of the womb for life-saving surgery, then returned for 10 more weeks.
Today show
Macie McCartney: The baby born twice
A rare condition and amazing surgery result in a modern medical miracle
1/6
This just shows that a baby inside the womb is just as much of a person as any of us!
She cradled Macie Hope in her arms. The infant, sporting a thick head of hair, slept through it all, prompting her mother to say, “Obviously she is completely at peace and content with it all.”
Don't let Nancy Pelosi and her pro-abortion allies sneak the largest expansion of abortion since Roe v. Wade past you – contact your Representative today and tell them to explicitly ban abortion coverage in the health care bill.
Polls consistently show that Americans do not want their hard-earned tax dollars funding abortion.
Susan B. Anthony List
P.P.S. Are you signed up for the www.StopTheAbortionMandate.com national webcast tomorrow, Thursday, July 23 at 9 PM EST? Please join me and other national pro-life leaders as we discuss how we can further fight this national expansion of taxpayer funded abortion on demand.
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
I don't agree with you on Margret Sanger
I also don't believe stopping abortion has anything to do with saving or protecting "the innocent". If ALL men are born sinners, who is born innocent? No man is innocent upon conception, especially when the parents are pathological liars, dieseased and addicted.
Let me be blunt. It would be very easy to stop abortion, Solution, abortion becomes a packaged deal with sterilization included. This can include vasectomies and birth control, but when people can not control themselves at the risk of another's life, something needs to be done.
No one wants or plans for an abortion, but some may have come to depend on abortion for lack of birthcontrol that works.
What is immoral is that men who sire what becomes an abortion has no penalty. He is free to sire children and abortions as he can find a woman so inclined, and Jerry Springer Show shows us... we have a massive moral problem fueled by MSM sex goddesses and homosexuality, and what have you.
I believe Margret Sanger when she claims she witnessed women killing themselves and their babies, leaving husbands with a brood, that many times were seperatred and sent to orphanges, and this large population of bastards wasn't making America a better place for families.
Abortion is a PRIVATE issue, a personal issue between a woman, her husband and her doctor... if she is not married, it is her business, not Ron Paul's, after all, I'm sure those who perform abortions have women signing papers freeing the doctor of liability.
If abortion is not kept legal it will become a black market, and again, women WILL preform abortions on themselves. I do not place a higer value of life on the fetus than the woman. I know there is a massive state that LOVES children, LOVES to ship them from home to home and give them vaccinations.. loves to take children from parent/s and hold parents and caretakers accountable for all they do for the children, but it's not making America a better place either.
Until men are held accountable for siring abortions, there will be no moral ground for pro-life. It might as well be called Pro-Men, Damn Women.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")
Oh Please! are you SERIOUS? Do some Research!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BpLs1qnSD0
Sanger embraced Malthusian eugenics. from Malthus’ magnum opus, An Essay on the Principle of Population, published in six editions from 1798 to 1826:
All children born, beyond what would be required to keep up the population to a desired level, must necessarily perish, unless room is made for them by the deaths of grown persons. We should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavoring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this mortality.
Sanger built the work of the ABCL, and, ultimately, Planned Parenthood, on the ideas and resources of the eugenics movement. Grant reported that "virtually all of the organization’s board members were eugenicists." Eugenicists financed the early projects, from the opening of birth control clinics to the publishing of "revolutionary" literature. Eugenicists comprised the speakers at conferences, authors of literature and the providers of services "almost without the exception." And Planned Parenthood’s international work was originally housed in the offices of the Eugenics Society. The two organizations were intertwined for years.
The ABCL became a legal entity on April 22, 1922, in New York. Before that, Sanger illegally operated a birth control clinic in October 1916, in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn, New York, which eventually closed. The clinic serviced the poor immigrants who heavily populated the area–those deemed "unfit" to reproduce.
Sanger’s early writings clearly reflected Malthus’ influence. She writes:
The "negro project"
In 1939, Margaret Sanger's new Birth Control Federation of America, a merger of her American Birth Control League and her research arm, the Birth Control Clinical Research Bureau, designed a "Negro Project" which sought to bring about a major birth-rate reduction among American Negroes. Such a result, according to the goals of the project, would help solve the problem of Southern Negro poverty. According to the project proposal, widely believed to have been written by Gamble, "The mass of Negroes, particularly in the South, still breed carelessly and disastrously, with the result that the [population] increase among Negroes...is from that portion...least intelligent and fit, and least able to rear children properly."
The project was to hire three or four "colored Ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities" to travel through the South and propagandize for birth control. As the project proposal stated, "The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal."19
In a remarkably frank letter to Gamble, Sanger wrote that "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."20
Gamble in turn proposed that the ministers enlist the aid of black physicians and attempt to organize a "Negro Birth Control Committee" in each community. In a private memo concerning the "Colored Steering Committee," Gamble wrote that "There is great danger that [the project] will fail because the Negroes think it a plan for extermination. Hence let's appear to let the colored run it...."21
Despite Gamble's professed concern for the health and well-being of the indigent Negroes he was targeting, he clashed with South Carolina's Public Health Director who wanted to provide general health services along with the contraceptive agenda being pushed by Sanger and Gamble. Gamble wrote Sanger that he did not want his funds to be "diluted with a lot of general health work."22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lyb_oUh_vU
"…I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing’
therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live."
--Deuteronomy 30:19 (NKJV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLyy6f1aiZs
On the crisp, sunny, fall Columbus Day in 1999, organizers of the "Say So" march approached the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court. The marchers, who were predominantly black pastors and lay persons, concluded their three-day protest at the site of two monumental cases: the school desegregation Brown v. Board of Education (1954) and the pro-abortion Roe v. Wade "rights" in t he latter–converged in the declaration of Rev. Johnny M. Hunter, the march’s sponsor and national director of Life, Education and Resource Network (LEARN), the largest black pro-life organization.
‘"Civil rights’ doesn’t mean anything without a right to life!" declared Hunter. He and the other marchers were protesting the disproportionately high number of abortions in the black community. The high number is no accident. Many Americans–black and white–are unaware of Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger’s Negro Project. Sanger created this program in 1939, after the organization changed its name from the American Birth Control League (ABCL) to the Birth Control Federation of America (BCFA).
I was that women, I would of signed the papers too, but it is all a propaganda machine I grew up in and you (telling little girls abortion is ok, and tricking them into a lifetime of pain)
The woman doesnt make the choice in abortin, society and men and her "image" makes it unconsciously.
You take any pregnant woman w/ hormones raging and on an emotionally needy day she could take someones SICK advice to get an abortion seriously.
When given time to think, it wont be choosen. That's why they must pass it "on demand"
Honestly how bad is it for a woman to give life to a child ?? It take what a year of your life? A month after my rape, when I found out, I made the time for my daughter that year..have a little heart! Women are tougher than abortion lets them be!!! And oh you say raising low income single parentless children is the issue. I call BS! But even so, that why we have millions of adoptive couples ready and waiting. http://birthmommissions.com
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
You have allot of healing to do still
I'm sorry for your rape.
There are not millions of adoptive couples. There are millions of women getting abortions and I feel sorry for them too because I don't believe it is easy for anyone except the man who is getting a free ride.
Make sterilization part of the abortion package and you will reduce abortion dramatically. But you see, that is not the goal here, nor the goal for those who claim to be pro-life. Again, they are anti-women.
Just look at you. You were raped and you conceived and all these years you have been in deep pain over the rape.. while whoever he is thinks NOTHING of it, and has been free to rape and rape and concieve again and again and again.
I will admit to you, that the University of Southwestern Louisiana did not go into biblical studies on non church organizations when I took Women's history, which Margret Sanger was a part in "The Feminist Papers". Of course this is a left winger socialist book and there were no qualms about that as it began women fought for freedom from the church and it's marriage laws and control since the church was erected by, of and for men.
I am sorry you were raped. I am sorry that pro-life is not pro-women, but it is not. It protects men, condems women in the name of children.
I don't see millions adopting these children. I see these children growing up in difficult situations, joining the military and holding government jobs, because government buracracy is what they grow up in...
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")
There are two sides to every story...and many women disagree...
with you: (including myself) for more of us, and a well stated discussion of why you are not accurate, and why choosing abortion is a choice that causes women to condemn themselves, suffer physically and emotionally , go to www.feministsforlife.org
-I favor extending to Israel the same honest friendship that Jefferson and the Founding Fathers urged us to offer to all nations. ...This means I also favor discontinuing foreign aid to governments that are actual or potential enemies of Israel,--Ron Paul
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
one more
and you just said, "in the name of children"?
Yeah, in their name...Is something wrong with that. what better for a women to do something in the name of, than for her own child? Her career, her husband, her taxi driver? children are who we protect, not hurt. We are adults, and should grow up and care for those less able than us.
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
Your wrong
On every single thing you just said. I have facts, you don;t. Waste of time, you won't open your mind.
And don't worry about him raping anyone else again, I cut of his dick
Pro - Life is pro-women, it does nothing to protect men. It saves them the trouble of wearing a silly condom, it hides affairs, it is used in human trafficking everyday and pimps force it on women who are sex slaves. Stop watching the TV kid.
"Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms" Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
you are right.. he is wrong.
you are right.. he is wrong.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Thanks
Glad someone agrees
"Freedom is not doing everything you want to. Freedom is not having to do what you don't want to do."~ Joyce Meyer
http://thestoryofagirl.com
www.girls4ronpaul.com
www.twitter.com/RonPaulGirl
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
I agree with much of what
I agree with much of what you have written. You have written a convincing piece proving just how low our society has devolved. There are many causes for this. That itself could have its own thread. I wonder if society will ever repair itself. I see absolutely no hint of that happening.
Ultimately the woman will make her own decision. But the bottom line is that none of that rationalizes the argument in favor of destroying life. And many will continue to view abortion as abhorrent.
Thank you, friend! This is a gracious and well written post
Great job, true Patriot! You may enjoy this site as well:
www.feministsforlife.com
Welcome to Daily Paul!
------
Libera me......from this dark dream, to the life-stream! --Leslie Phillips
The most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help!"-- Ronald Reagan
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
Yep, I am a member too!
I love them!
I link and them on my website too! http://birthmommissions.com
"I will tell you something beautiful. We are fighting abortion by adoption..."
"Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms" Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
Funny, the paraphraser of the
Jewish New Testament suggests the same solution to abortion.....(BTW Like the Ron Paul quote)
-I favor extending to Israel the same honest friendship that Jefferson and the Founding Fathers urged us to offer to all nations. ...This means I also favor discontinuing foreign aid to governments that are actual or potential enemies of Israel,--Ron Paul
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
Payroll Loans........
If you have a job during these turbulent times, it's great to be on the payroll, but when unexpected expenses rear their ugly head at times just about anyone could use payroll loans. Payroll loans, or paycheck loans, get you an advance of emergency funds before you get your next payroll check. A payroll loan can help out in the delicate balancing act of personal finance. What's more, loan lenders have joined the information age, and you can apply online or over the phone, no fax required. Lenders can give instant approval and wire funds through direct deposit. If you need fast cash because of an emergency, payroll loans may be the way to go.
You are dispicable!
This is an ad for s usurious loan.
Once again ....RP proves his wisdom, as he agrees with ...
Thomas Jefferson: It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
------
Libera me......from this dark dream, to the life-stream! --Leslie Phillips
The most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help!"-- Ronald Reagan
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
The nice thing abour the Constitution is, whether the issue is
emotional or not, we don't have to concern ourselves w/ whether the federal government has any business delving into it or setting policy regarding it. What the government has the authority to do is clearly labeled in Article 1, Sect. 8. The President signs off on anything Congress has signed that he believes ought to be law & if Congress wants, a majority of them can overrule. None of this signing statement stuff. I don't believe the right to life is written into the Constitution, although as Steve Peroutka says if we don't have the right-to-life, all other rights are illusory. Despite what's in the Preamble, the rights of the government are clearly laid out & it doesn't prevent or forbid citizens to have abortions, it is indeed a states rights issue.
There is also no authority for the federal government to fund such a thing.
So enough with all of these silly stupid questions the news asks about whether NASA or whichever agency should do this project or that project which causes us to think do we want the government doing this? Do we want seaturtles studied, do we want a cure for this that the other, the list goes on. It's not a matter of whether it should happen, the government has no authority to do it & it gets its authority from the Constitution. Period, end of story.
For some reason, we're expected to know every law that exists in America & in our state so we don't break it. We're supposed to know this when we're 18. There's no litmus test for them, as in the 10 commandments or rhyme or reason. C.U.R.E.
Thank you Dr. Paul
I just wanted to chime in here and state that while I am pro-choice, I think forcing someone who is anti-choice to pay for someone else's abortion is sinister and illustrates the depth of the chasm between the government and the people.
I don't want to get into a debate about abortion because we all feel the way we do about it, but it's important that I speak up against this.
I have to admit I'm getting a little tired of the powers that be passing intrusive bill after intrusive bill and foisting them upon us. They spew their rhetoric and assume we believe whatever tripe spills out of their smiling facade. If I see another clapping session while Obama signs another of these "necessary" bills I'm going to puke (and I voted for the guy - I know, I know....) All the bills the "lawmakers" pass are ways to keep people in line and take their money, no matter how they dress them up.
Everything I learn about the Health Care bill makes me want it even less (a fine if you elect NOT to have health care? Huh?) The government needs to get the hell out of our lives, stop leeching off of us to fund their destructive nonsense, and get down off their high horse.
I don't want them interfering with my choices AT ANY LEVEL and I certainly don't want them forcing anyone to pay for abortions! The government has overstayed its welcome within the lives of the people - both here and abroad.
I just had to say...
I don't think you really are all the way on board with the idea of individual rights, Ron Paul, or C4L... if you are pro-choice? You kinda missed the point that our first duty is to protect the innocent and its not 'your choice" when it involves another life. I feel like I can say this to you thout it being taken as a view that Im just a high andmighty bitch with no compassion for women. Im not, promise. I used to be partial to the abortion case to. I thank God he let me see the truth. I was raped suppressed it and then was pregnant contemplating abortion, I had the baby and gave her for adoption. Abortion would have killed a part of me. If you have never had one, believe me it is no "free choice" for anyone...baby or the woman. It was created to depopulate and Margret Sanger never cared on bit about women. If we care to educate children. We have to care to stop these lies. It was too damn easy for me to walk in and kill my little girl without a thought. That isn't America under the constitution!
Thats all. Im kinda overly opinionated on the subject, I know...
I don't think rape even constitutes the taking of a life (my little girls has impacted so many families. She is a perfect little blessing, and i doubt even Margret Sanger wouldn't change her mind after one look at her) And I'm no saint. I almost killed my own daughter, but some innate instinct kicked in and took over.
This baby here: (http://www.thestoryofagirl.com/2009/07/29/returned-to-womb-a...) was born at 6 months and put back in. They are little people from the beginning. Woman's bodies feel and are intune with the child. Both die in abortion.
Returned to womb after life-saving surgery, she arrived 10 weeks later
Meet baby who was born twice
June 6: When her mother was six months pregnant, baby Macie Hope was taken out of the womb for life-saving surgery, then returned for 10 more weeks.
Today show
Macie McCartney: The baby born twice
A rare condition and amazing surgery result in a modern medical miracle
1/6
This just shows that a baby inside the womb is just as much of a person as any of us!
She cradled Macie Hope in her arms. The infant, sporting a thick head of hair, slept through it all, prompting her mother to say, “Obviously she is completely at peace and content with it all.”
Don't let Nancy Pelosi and her pro-abortion allies sneak the largest expansion of abortion since Roe v. Wade past you – contact your Representative today and tell them to explicitly ban abortion coverage in the health care bill.
Polls consistently show that Americans do not want their hard-earned tax dollars funding abortion.
Susan B. Anthony List
P.P.S. Are you signed up for the www.StopTheAbortionMandate.com national webcast tomorrow, Thursday, July 23 at 9 PM EST? Please join me and other national pro-life leaders as we discuss how we can further fight this national expansion of taxpayer funded abortion on demand.
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
You said:
"I don't think you really are all the way on board with the idea of individual rights, Ron Paul, or C4L... You kinda missed the point that our first duty is to protect the innocent and its not 'your choice" when it involves another life."
Are you in charge?
I understand the arguments both for and against abortion and for what it's worth I'd never consider an abortion and neither would my wife. Our pregnancy was a surprise at a time when we could least afford it (she had just started college and we were living in a tiny apartment), but as I work from home we managed fairly well. My daughter is the best gift I could ask for. She's also the main reason I'm as attuned to politics as I am because I want her to have a good life.
When I was in High School there was a girl in my group of friends that was a drunk and slept with a lot of boys. She had 3 abortions before the end of High School which I find absolutely disgusting. I couldn't even talk to her I found it so abhorrent, which is sad because she probably really needed someone to listen.
Aside from my personal beliefs I feel very strongly that the issue of abortion is primarily a woman's issue. Many may feel I'm passing-the-buck, but it's difficult for me to accept the idea that a man can determine what a woman should do with her body when she's experiencing something I can only understand in a theoretical way, and that is probably a very moving spiritual experience for her. My revelations about the miracle of life are experienced after the birth when the child begins to evolve and relate to the world at large. Up until then my focus is primarily on my wife and her needs.
What a woman does with her pregnancy is between her and whatever God she communes with. I love children and I wish they were treated with greater respect in our culture, but I am pro-choice and will continue to be so.
At the very least I think any abortion should be done after much consideration and that it should be paid for by the people involved in the pregnancy.
Well that's really nice of
Well that's really nice of you. I'm glad you have come to terms with a woman's feelings, all the while missing the point that the right of a person to be born and have life, should be paramount. I'm glad you at least agree with those who find taxpayer funded abortions tyrannical. Taking the innocent unborn child's life is the ultimate in force against another. Perhaps the woman who suddenly has these feelings you talk about, should have considered these feelings before she had sex. And you use the excuse that you are a man. Hogwash! Then be a man and speak out for right of the child to have a life. The unborn child surely can not speak for himself.
I normally try not to get this fired up about this issue when arguing for the rights of the unborn. I'm sorry, but I'm sick to death of the usual first argument out of the choicer's mouth, "what if you were raped?" And then there is that well worn argument, "but it was a mistake....it was those darned raging hormones."
NINETY PERCENT of more than 45 MILLION abortions are because of the INCONVENIENCE of the pregnancy. THAT is a reflection of a sick society.
Did you not read the first comments?
(For commenter above you)
Im Getting tired of standing up against the overused claim "What about rape" I was, I had a baby, I love her, shes adopted now, I lived, whats the big deal!!
"Freedom is not doing everything you want to. Freedom is not having to do what you don't want to do."~ Joyce Meyer
www.girls4ronpaul.com
www.libertarianladies.net
www.twitter.com/RonPaulGirl
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Girls-4-Ron-Paul/
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is! vital."http://facebook.com/lovecarolpaul http://ronpaulgirl.com http://facebook.com/ronpaulgirls
the Paul's anniversary is Feb 1st (I suggest Carol Paul Money Bomb)
I never said anything about rape.
If you object to my position that's fine, but you have no reason to deride me because I don't think like you do. We are all different and approach issues from our own perspective. At least I've given the issue serious thought.
Abortion is essentially a solution, and I agree that it's not a good one. People make such a choice for many reasons, but the end result is the same. Those who are anti-choice would be better off concentrating on alternative solutions to unwanted pregnancies than deriding abortion itself (sex education, counseling, day care for young mothers, etc...)
Abortion discussions always turn into name calling which solves nothing. As far as not "being a man" goes I feel I'm much more of a man than some crazy clinic bomber (which seem to be primarily "men")
I do stand up for what I believe and I make an effort to be aware of the issues involved. I also try to see beyond my own point of view and I don't go around forcing any dictates upon others.
If we cannot discuss things openly and cordially we'll never get anywhere.
"If you object to my
"If you object to my position that's fine, but you have no reason to deride me because I don't think like you do. We are all different and approach issues from our own perspective. At least I've given the issue serious thought."
....You are absolutely right here.
~~~~~~~
"Abortion is essentially a solution, and I agree that it's not a good one. People make such a choice for many reasons, but the end result is the same. Those who are anti-choice would be better off concentrating on alternative solutions to unwanted pregnancies than deriding abortion itself (sex education, counseling, day care for young mothers, etc...)"
....Wrong. Abortion is not essentially a solution. It is the taking of human life. You are guilty of typical government speak of rewording policy to make it palatable to the masses. "Antichoice," and prochoice are the very definition of this. You are either against the taking of life, or you are rationalizing your viewpoint that abortion is "essentially a solution, when it is in fact, the taking of human life. Using choice as your rationalization is just ignoring what is most important, which is the right of that baby to have life. "The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideal of liberty." Dr. Ron Paul
Re: alternative solutions....Fine. But for me to look the other way while 45 million abortions have been performed primarily because the woman or man decides the baby would be a "punishment", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNbaig-D5pk would be just as bad or worse as if I looked the other way while Congress is destroying our republic. Like Ron Paul said, "There is an urgency in what we do. We are carrying the banner. As a group we now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."
~~~~~~~
"Abortion discussions always turn into name calling which solves nothing. As far as not "being a man" goes I feel I'm much more of a man than some crazy clinic bomber (which seem to be primarily "men")"
....Name calling solves nothing. You are correct. You said that you never mentioned being raped. I never mentioned clinic bombers. But both comments pertain to the discussion. As far as "not being a man goes," I believe that is another excuse for you to rationalize abortion.
~~~~~~
"I do stand up for what I believe and I make an effort to be aware of the issues involved. I also try to see beyond my own point of view and I don't go around forcing any dictates upon others.
If we cannot discuss things openly and cordially we'll never get anywhere."
....Again, you are correct. While I stand by my principle that abortion is the ultimate force against another, I could have been more respectful in my arguments. Thank you taking the time to reply, UserAccount.
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/arg-abor.html
Medical Arguments Against Abortion
"Thus far in our discussion we have looked at biblical arguments against abortion. But what if someone doesn't believe in the Bible? Are there other arguments we can use? Yes, there are: medical arguments, for example. Let's look, then, at some of the medical arguments against abortion.
The medical arguments against abortion are compelling. For example, at conception the embryo is genetically distinct from the mother. To say that the developing baby is no different from the mother's appendix is scientifically inaccurate. A developing embryo is genetically different from the mother. A developing embryo is also genetically different from the sperm and egg that created it. A human being has 46 chromosomes (sometimes 47 chromosomes). Sperm and egg have 23 chromosomes. A trained geneticist can distinguish between the DNA of an embryo and that of a sperm and egg. But that same geneticist could not distinguish between the DNA of a developing embryo and a full-grown human being.
Another set of medical arguments against abortion surround the definition of life and death. If one set of criteria have been used to define death, could they also be used to define life? Death used to be defined by the cessation of heartbeat. A stopped heart was a clear sign of death. If the cessation of heartbeat could define death, could the onset of a heartbeat define life? The heart is formed by the 18th day in the womb. If heartbeat was used to define life, then nearly all abortions would be outlawed.
Physicians now use a more rigorous criterion for death: brain wave activity. A flat EEG (electroencephalograph) is one of the most important criteria used to determine death. If the cessation of brain wave activity can define death, could the onset of brain wave activity define life? Individual brain waves are detected in the fetus in about 40-43 days. Using brain wave activity to define life would outlaw at least a majority of abortions.
Opponents to abortion also raise the controversial issue of fetal pain. Does the fetus feel pain during abortion? The evidence seems fairly clear and consistent. Consider this statement made in a British medical journal: "Try sticking an infant with a pin and you know what happens. She opens her mouth to cry and also pulls away. Try sticking an 8-week-old human fetus in the palm of his hand. He opens his mouth and pulls his hand away. A more technical description would add that changes in heart rate and fetal movement also suggest that intrauterine manipulations are painful to the fetus."
Obviously, other medical criteria could be used. For example, the developing fetus has a unique set of fingerprints as well as genetic patterns that make it unique. The development of sonography has provided us with a "window to the womb" showing us that a person is growing and developing in the mother's womb. We can discern eyes, ears, fingers, a nose, and a mouth. Our visual senses tell us this is a baby growing and maturing. This is not a piece of protoplasm; this is a baby inside the womb.
The point is simple. Medical science leads to a pro-life perspective rather than a pro-choice perspective. If medical science can be used at all to draw a line, the clearest line is at the moment of conception. Medical arguments provide a strong case against abortion and for life."
I appreciate your response...
...and I respect your position.
I must object to your comments that I'm rationalizing abortion though. What I'm doing it attempting to understand the situation of those who choose to abort pregnancy.
What will we do with 45 million unwanted babies?
As I've said I could never abort a child, but obviously some feel otherwise.
As far as how abortion relates to the Liberty movement I believe that if we had a free society and a free market we'd all be more prosperous. Through the strength of this movement we have an opportunity to create a world where people will act responsibly and consider the repercussions of their actions before they act. In such a society I believe that abortions will drop because not only will there be less accidental pregnancies, but those who become unexpectedly pregnant will be better able to care for them.
I see abortion as a societal issue rather than an individual one. In that sense one must consider the reasons people rationalize their abortions in order to effectively address the issue of abortion. As women are the ones who get pregnant I defer to them in any disagreement because dictating to a woman how she should feel about pregnancy or abortion when it's her body and something she understands in a way I never can oversteps natural bounds.
Attacking people who feel trapped makes them defensive and does nothing to ensure others will feel differently when they find themselves in a similar situation. Their defensiveness can make them feel more trapped and alone, or encourage them to staunchly defend their choice to abort.
We have to look beyond the babies that are being aborted now and the people who abort them because abortions are a symptom of something deeper. In my view the best way to inhibit the rise of abortions is to address why they're being done, not by being critical of those that have or give them.
With your arguments, both
With your arguments, both you and The Granger in his post above have proven how low our society has sunk. No one could disagree that we are an immoral society for whatever the causes.
I am sad because not once did you or The Granger champion the rights of the unborn child. It was glaringly obvious this omission. And that will always be the barrier in this ongoing and seemingly endless debate. Without this reverence for life, there will always be abortion. I guess there is nothing more to say.