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Strawman, Corporate Government, Land Patents, Law of the Sea, etc

It's a wild goose chase. It's been a key distractor since people really started waking up to the New World Order back in the 70's. You'll never get anywhere with it but jail. It's all true, but it doesn't really work.
"Some sheep will fight among themselves, others will go with the flock, while others will chase their own tails."
Anyone who claims that going to jail for these "principles" is better than living as a slave, has never been to jail.
Besides, how "free" are you when you're stuck in court or filling out paperwork all the time?
Every time the freedom/truth movement gains steam, they manage to skim off a bunch of patriots with this stuff. Eventually, those who pursue this course wind up losing all their property and going to jail.
I expect this thread will generate some of longest replies any of you have ever seen. They always use lots and lots of words to not say anything.




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I haven't been able to get into this stuff yet...


It just seems too far fetched and unreasonable, even if true.

But, then again, I thought similar things of 9/11 until studying it and getting involved.

So who knows...

Better to keep an open mind, if you ever get the time.


Ron Paul's Convention Speech

I say this

"In order to beat the game you have to play it"

I don't know that this belongs here

But I still like the idea of jury nullification. I say that in this thread because most of the other items your headline contains affected me in the same way as discovering jury nullification, as "light bulb moments".

As long as we have juries, the jury is the official final word on guilt or innocence right?

Seems lawmakers could pass any ole policy they want but could not inflict punishment for not obeying the policy without our general consent (unanimous jury of peers). I wonder if we started an education campaign (especially now that everyone is becoming uncomfortable) regarding jury nullification, if we have enough interest yet?

Hold it. If we start doing that, we'll be considered "extremist juries" and the government will have to move to military tribunals for our own safety.

Never mind. :|

***
Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Jury nullification is not related to this

It is a very real thing that can be proven to work and accepted by the real legal system (real, in this case meaning, de jure)

Really now? Okay strike it then

My bad. I didn't realize that it wasn't exactly related did I? Forgive my musings.

ML, maybe I took you wrong but you must not "know me" as I took your comment as a jab, talking down to me and thwarting actual conversation. You must only read your own posts. Thanks for your support.

***
Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

ML

I'm probably hopped up from my own bristlies and I apologize back.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Now you have proven you

Now you have proven you don't know what your talking about. Jury nullification can work in an article 3 court but we have none of those anymore. Judges have set aside jury nullification verdicts in these equity courts even thrown jurors off the jury for daring to even suggest it.

Just because you are afraid to go to jail so haven't done enough research to see that these things you are trying to discredit are real doesn't mean they are not.

So I guess you don't believe the proof I posted that they are all private corporations listed on Dun and Bradstreet?

I guess it's easier to sit here and throw stones at something you know little or nothing about. I had thought better of you.

Like I said freedom is not for the timid. Keep bending over or you might get thrown in jail.... Sigh

And you really should look up the meaning of the word de jure, the courts are de facto not de jure they have nothing to do with law

-----
End The Fat
59 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

You're reading me all wrong man.

You know how long I've been involved in all this, right? Maybe somewhere along the way, I learned a lesson. If you really want to be free, there is a way. Hawkie, Inc.
Jury Nullification:
http://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2007/11/0...
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/27/opinion/when-jurors-ignore...
http://www.cato.org/dispatch/02-13-01d.html#two

I am very up to date

I am very up to date with jury nullification however your dealing in equity courts. Most people try to avoid jury duty because they are intimidated by court. The judge is king in his courtroom he uses judicial review which means he makes it up as he goes. I can prove it!

All those cases and hows it working where's the freedom? Doesn't mean they won't convict the next guy. People don't realize who and what they are dealing with. These courts are for profit businesses and they bundle the bonds from each court case into mutual funds and trade them on the open market. Judges warehouse the collateral on these bonds ie prisoners. That's why your guilty when you walk in. Yeah a few people win so as not to alarm the sheep. It's all a sick game and there is a way to beat it but it takes courage and knowledge.

People need to know and understand they are dealing with a de facto government. I sent you the Turner stuff get on the conference calls people are having success they are getting free and clear title to thier houses they are opting out of the corporate jurisdiction etc. they are fighting these bastards hard with courage and so far no one has gone to jail in several years. Forget the past we need to move forward. Turner has brought some missing pieces We are getting more resistance now because thousands are doing this. People are looking for a real solution.

The FIJA has been around for a long time what good has it done? I agree with the concept but you need to know who and what the enemy is to deal with him properly

-----
End The Fat
59 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

The problem is that if you

The problem is that if you are 99% correct you still go to jail.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

Wow listen to the fear.in

Wow listen to the fear.in that statement .. sigh! That's the real myth! People make mistakes all the time and don't go to jail. Most people in jail are thier illegally.

If you want freedom without risk you want what never was and never will be!

Geeze just bow and and kiss the feet of your masters I can't take the cowardice any more. To many people would rather sit here and argue the nuances of thier supposed interpretation of the law then actually do something?

Freeman on land are you a secure party? If not then what have you done to secure your freedom?

-----
End The Fat
59 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

There is no fear.

Understanding the terms is important to success. I know I have to do my homework or else they will come down hard on me. That doesn't mean I am not going to try, hell, I'm going to achieve it no matter what. This thing has consumed my life and I will refuse defeat.

Hopefully I can generate some internet buzz as well so when things go the right way others will follow right behind me. Or, hopefully an accident doesn't happen to me...

I reserve the right to govern myself.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

Exactly,

That's what Mike is saying.

Then we have to be perfect. Period.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

An observation

we are all looking for a "way."

It is useful to acknowledge "their" breadth of control....I did not say power....I said control.

I agree that a court challenge is inevitable, but, how best to bring in the truth for all to see?

I believe with all of my heart that this debate is simple. We live in a world of a lie. I say this lie ends once we tell enough people the truth.

I assure you it will. They rely on each of us believing this reality. If we do not? It ends.

I suggest that "assaulting the ramparts" will not work as they are designed for assault. Keep in mind that these ramparts are illusions that we support by our belief in them.

This is a thought:

Each of us has "moral authority." This is the God within each of us. God I suggest, is the truth...no religious affiliation necessary.

When Mike or anyone else speaks the truth the world changes.

When we point at what is wrong and stand up and speak from our heart that it is wrong we are exercising our moral authority....in this an immoral world.

Light always wins (ask yourself if this is true).

The lie always falls.

When I tell a stranger that the fed is privately owned...their life is changed FOREVER.

Try it. The truth (God) does not need a lot. It just needs a person with the courage to speak it. This speaking is an ACTION. This act of courage is what is changing the world.

Unify

That was beautifully written, thankyou.

*

And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”

I agree with Hawkiye

if this is all non-sense, you have no hope. Standing on corners holding up signs will never work. I am interested in the work Hawkiye is doing and the progress he has made. The reason for the poor success in this area is because of disorganization, repetitiveness, inexperience and confidence. Trial and error with successes brought to the forefront will eventually bring VICTORY!

However, for those that are awakened, the signs encourage

them to seek more information.
Everyday, I point at least two people to view a movie, the DP, or whatever was of topic.
And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”

And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”

Many Patriot

myths are legally unsound and end up setting the patriot movement back. Go to teamlaw and read myth 22.

However, if you look into land patents, you will see that a properly linked land patent case has never lost in court, the supreme court has said many times that land patent is the only form of title, and the deed is only color of title. However, again, people misapply land patents, then say land patents don't work.

We need to be a movement consisting of people who study the actual law instead of people debating about what the law says.

Teamlaw has done some good

Teamlaw has done some good research on original jurisdiction however they are not the be all end all on the law. You need to look at the laws yourself and stop taking teamlaw or anyone else word for it.

Their attempt to discredit the strawman argument is laughable and really just a poor attempt at self vindication and trying to discredit other patriots who have done some valid research in areas Teamlaw has little knowledge of. People set up corporations or fictitious business names all the time using their given name, so is the company they set up them or a legal entity/fiction? Now in light of that is it so hard to realize government has done the same made you a legal entity/fiction and did certain things to delineate you from the the real man? And the way they treat you proves it.

It's too bad Team law has taken that tact also because it divides and not unites patriots. Patriots don't have to agree on every point to work together on a common cause. The founders certainly did not. Team law seems to think they are the sole authority on the law and they are not.

-----
End The Fat
59 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

we need more people like you

and FMOL (plus others) with the balls, guts, and brains to learn and apply this stuff personally, share stories and help others IF it works. People like me who have a limited education may not be willing to try these things until it is the last option. At that point many will need (pro bono) help figuring out and implimenting these actions.
_________________________________________
sdrawkcab gnihtyreve od deF eht & tnemrevog ehT

Good post Mike,

I agree that trying to fight in court based on the ideas is a waste of time. Why? Because it assumes that the government follows its own laws.



---
"Government is just a word for some people who claim authority over other people." - Glenn Jacobs

Then why are you doing

Then why are you doing anything at all since none of it is working? And your alternative is?

The courts have no authority and there is a way to fight without stepping into their jurisdiction. People are doing it and having success.

It is not wise to be dismissing things out of hand without giving it a fair hearing and doing your homework!

They break the law because we let them for fear of their wrath. If your not willing to hold them accountable to the law then unless you have something else that is working the only thing left to do is arrest them by force. Why haven't you done that yet?
-----
End The Fat
59 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

reply

Then why are you doing anything at all since none of it is working?

Why do you say that it's not working? I'm spreading the message of liberty and I am seeing it have a small steady effect.

The courts have no authority and there is a way to fight without stepping into their jurisdiction.

No authority according to what? I know that they have authority according to the guns that State's agents carry.

People are doing it and having success.

Well good if some are. But, I don't think it will be successful on a large scale. Why? Well say a lot people started using this this to get out of paying taxes for example...the State would have enormous incentive to come in and put an end to this sabotage of their revenue stream.

It is not wise to be dismissing things out of hand without giving it a fair hearing and doing your homework!

Absolutely. I think from an a priori reason that this is going to be widely successful: a) the State tends not to follow its own laws, b) the State would have incentive to clamp down on this if it became highly utilized.

If your not willing to hold them accountable to the law then unless you have something else that is working the only thing left to do is arrest them by force. Why haven't you done that yet?

I'd most likely be put into slavery (ie. what they call "jail").

"Why do you say that it's

"Why do you say that it's not working? I'm spreading the message of liberty and I am seeing it have a small steady effect."

What steady effect? Name one thing in all the activism of the last two years that has even slowed down thier agenda one iota?

"No authority according to what? I know that they have authority according to the guns that State's agents carry."

According to the law! We have more guns and bodies then they do yet we cow tow in fear? They break the law everyday but they obey it to a certain extent so as not to alarm the sheep.

"I don't think it will be successful on a large scale. Why? Well say a lot people started using this this to get out of paying taxes for example...the State would have enormous incentive to come in and put an end to this sabotage of their revenue stream."

You just said you are having a SMALL effect so you should stop doing it because it won't be successful on a large scale according to your line of thought. The state already has enormous incentive to come after the fruits of your labour and and does so with the entire population. What is that incentive? Your fear and cow towing in acquiescence to thier theft and extortion. IOW thier incentive is because you let them!

"Absolutely. I think from an a priori reason that this is going to be widely successful: a) the State tends not to follow its own laws, b) the State would have incentive to clamp down on this if it became highly utilized.Absolutely. I think from an a priori reason that this is going to be widely successful: a) the State tends not to follow its own laws, b) the State would have incentive to clamp down on this if it became highly utilized."

Well gee then I guess we should just continue to let them plunder us and steal from us because they might get angry if we try and stop it...Sigh!

And by the way you are already in slavery and out of fear refuse to do anything about it while they plunder and extort you, claim ownership of you and your children, your family, force vaccinate your family etc etc..

It's time for free Americans to stand up and press thier rights or bow and lick he boots of your masters. Do you think it will get any better or easier if we continue to wait for fear we might get thrown in jail?

You had your eyes opened somewhat by the Ron Paul campaign etc. but your not all the way there yet. Don't sit back and rest on the laurels of your new found knowledge, there is more! It's now time to take the next step, the next paradigm shift and take some real action.

Freedom is not for the timid.

-----
End The Fat
59 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Mike, You need to dig

Mike,

You need to dig deeper,

In case you haven't noticed people are already loosing all their property to the mortgage scam. In fact they have stolen all the wealth of America using it and credit cards car loans etc..

It is not true that everyone who has gone this route has lost thier property or gone to jail. That what they want you to believe. There MO is fear and intimidation. So scaring everyone that they will go to jail if they learn about the law and apply it is howe they operate.

Yes SOME people have gotten in trouble because as they were trying to figure things out, they made mistakes and some were just idiots. However shall we quit the fight because some made mistakes, or the past, or PTB refuse to follow the law?

If so then we might as well quit every form of activism we read about going on here because it doesn't work and hasn't worked one iota to even slow thier agenda!

THE LAW IS ON OUR SIDE, tell us why we should not use it?

I personally have discharged some debts using this information and am working on my mortgage. I know personally others who have used this information to protect thier rights. Will it work every time? No because we cannot prevent these officers and judges etc. from breaking the law. However we have to stop being intimidated by these people because otherwise they just continue to plunder us at will and we allow it. They get away with it because they can and we let them as we cower in fear.

Your solution seems to be since we don't yet have power to overcome these criminals we should allow them to continue to plunder us at will. That is no strategy at all!

You say they skim off patriots what is it that you think these patriots should be doing instead to make a difference? Electing people to some fake office in a private corporation that ignores them and continues to steal the fruits of thier labours?

let's hear your solution that's working? I posted proof that we are operating in a complete state of lawlessness and every so called government agency is nothing more then a private corporation. So please tell me how you think this is a distraction as opposed to doing what ever you think is better? I am all ears if you think you have something with teeth.

Until then I will continue to press my rights via the law and every other peaceful means until if and when the shooting starts. However I have my doubts about enough Americans doing that when they are a afraid to use the law to press for thier rights for fear they might end up in jail. And Yes I have been there before but like You I got out quickly.

It's time for Americans to stop being afraid and get educated in the law and stand up for your rights!!!

-----
End The Fat
59 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Where do you suggest

we do this "research?" It is very difficult finding reliable information regarding the "techniques" you're referring to that eliminate debt. Anything you can provide us to point us in the right direction?

so professor :)

what about the 'show me the note', 'prove I owe you money' things with mortgages and credit card debts? can one get out of debt without actually paying back the debt (by exposing the fraud and winning with the Law)?
_________________________________________
sdrawkcab gnihtyreve od deF eht & tnemrevog ehT

I'd be far more willing to try it with credit cards than my home

They don't generally come to get the new nikes you bought. Houses and cars on the other hand. . .