Police Bodyslams 84 yrs old lady with Alzheimer's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrXjsmRuEWQ
On the night of August 1, at a Whitehall, Ohio Walmart, Virginia Dodson could not remember why she was sitting alone in a car. Coming to grips with her enclosed environment, it dawned on her that she did not know how to unbuckle her seat belt either.
Panic began to take hold.
Her solution was to scrounge up a steak knife and cut through the straps, eventually finding her way into the confusing world of the parking lot, still wielding the blade.
Virginia, an 84-year-old African American, has Alzheimer's disease. Like many other sufferers, the responsibility for her care fell to her adult child. Her daughter, however, was inside the store.
It was only a short matter of time before the police were called.
As she wandered the parking lot calling her daughter's name, she was approached by a white, female officer who clearly ordered her to drop the weapon. She did not.
What happened next was captured on video.
patriots let's send emails to Alex Jones to have him cover this story http://helpdesk.infowars.com/cgi-bin/ttx.cgi
"Body slam" may well be an
"Body slam" may well be an exaggeration. The video rather fortuitously fails to show the actual take down, we just know that the woman is on the ground and the cop is wrestling the knife away from her.
It has to be remembered that this woman was holding a knife and reportedly "threatening" other people. The backstory was that she had been left, by a relative, in an overheated parked car and had used the knife to get loose from the seat belt. At the time the cop wouldn't know this, he'd only know that she had frightened other people, that she was brandishing a knife and refused to follow his instruction to drop the knife.
He may well have taken her down rather gently, in view of her physical condition, rather than used a "body slam".
She's considerably better off than Eleanor Bumpurs, who similarly brandished a knife at polie. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Bumpurs:
sickening...
-Peace and Liberty
"Six Months That Changed the World"
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
There was blood on the
There was blood on the pavement. Nice work, Officer Friendly.
Soon, we may see
the implemention of a new policy of "Pre-Emptive Body Slamming", a la the "Bush Doctrine", wherein anybody who is still breathing "could be a threat", and would need to be body-slammed by the police upon sight, just in case they "might" be capable of reacting violently to anything, and therefore it must be done for the "safety of the officer".
Sounds reasonable, right?
Reasonable, like the "distraction blow"...
...aka kick to the head.
lol
I remember that vid. Not that the video was funny, just your comment.
one of the best comments ever
hahahaha
...and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer'; but you are making it a den of robbers."
Matthew 21, verses 12-13
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
On August 13th, 2009 BigT
On August 13th, 2009 BigT says:
the implemention of a new policy of "Pre-Emptive Body Slamming", a la the "Bush Doctrine", wherein anybody who is still breathing "could be a threat", and would need to be body-slammed by the police upon sight, just in case they "might" be capable of reacting violently to anything, and therefore it must be done for the "safety of the officer".
Sounds reasonable, right?
Furthermore the Obama Doctrine, as co-authored by President Barack Obama and Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolotano, states in part "It is the opinion of this office and that of the Department of Justice that all citizens shall be empowered to act as citizen-informant for all local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies in their efforts to identify, monitor, and, when it becomes necessary, neutralize with extreme prejudice persons who fit the domestic terrorist profile. Persons who make frequent reference towards such inflammatory ideals as "freedom", "liberty", "the constitution", etc, are to be reported immediately via email to commissar@DHS.gov
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson, 1799
Essentially True
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
hahahaha - "pre-emptive body slamming"
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Seems they let
the "kind" female officer with empathy off for good conduct with a pat on the back.
Man
you know the chief grew up tough, with a last name like ZITZKE.
Body slam?!? Nahh...
She just helped her lie down.....real fast...
Aint that right Octopox?
★★★★★★
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Jefferson: You are not so much of a collectivist that even you
can't see the "reason" this post is on Daily Paul (representing Ron Paul to the world).
No one cares about this woman -- no money has been sent to her so she can get better care. No one "wonders" aloud why the civilians present called the cops -- if its such an easy thing to disarm a knife without injury? No one "wonders" aloud why this woman with Alz was left alone in a hot car -- to the point she felt it necessary to cut her way out with a steak knife? Why was there a steak knife in the car?
Let me get this straight. People (the civilians on the scene and the woman's daughter) all abdicated their "Christian" / "American-Individualist" responsibility in handling this situation themselves in favor of having the "evil police state" handle it? Is that what happened?
Of course it is wrong to bring harm to a senior -- but the cop is not trained to disarm an elderly woman. Under stress cops fall back on their training and disarms must be quick if you are to avoid injury.
My grandfather -- older and more feeble than this woman near the end of his life had a grand mal seizure and it took 5 firefighters/paramedics and our weightlifting neighbor to get him out of the house -- they could not move him 17 feet he was in such a fit of strength and rage at what he thought was an attack.
Now how much strength does it take to puncture the skin with a knife (puncture a lung)? The vest cops wear does not protect against punctures.
The "bodyslam reference" and it being posted on Daily Paul is agenda based -- the agenda is to get people worked up and hating the gov't, start the day off with a good adrenal dump. Hating does not lead to "wisdom" or rational discourse.
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Under stress cops fall back
(Bold added for emphasis)
What stress? I saw an 84 year old woman wandering around with a cane and a knife. She wasn't moving quickly, she wasn't threatening people... just stay 20 ft away and try to think of a better way to approach the problem.
Like I don't know... Have the local stores give an announcement over their PA systems? Try to talk to her and find out what is going on for more than 20 seconds?
Basically they could've played for time and found a better solution-- instead they acted quickly violently and stupidly.
There is no excuse for what they did.
She was probably left alone in the car because it was the best option available at the time, its possible she was asked if she wanted to come in the store and she said she'd rather wait in the car. 'Alz' is a terrible disease, and one which my grandmother happens to have-- when you can't remember what happened in the last 5 minutes you tend to act irrationally. But in all honesty the back story is irrelevant to the events witnessed.
As to your own personal experience with your grandfather, it was good that individuals who were not part of the police force were there to help out-- had local law enforcement been on hand they might have broken the back of his head.
P.S. It is not collectivist to hate on law enforcement, if you believe the laws they enforce are unjust. At that point they're either aiding and abetting the state, or they're violating the oath they took when they donned the uniform.
dlind: You changed my argument to suit your conclusion
I never said when and where it's okay to "hate" an individual -- hate all you like.
What I'm saying its collectivist to hate on a 900K population of voters (each of whom have 10 unique friends / family who can vote) based on the actions of the few.
I think cops are civilians -- born from civilians -- raised by civilians -- educated by civilians and should be treated / judged as individual-civilians.
The later is RP's message of liberty -- to judge a man by his character and not his brother's.
"Under Stress" (un-bolded)
Yes when you have an old woman with a knife -- walking aimlessly through the parking lot -- with a community of sheep abdicating their own authority to act to help; this is a "stressful" situation.
Un-less you've been in the same situation, can also attest that 900K other civilians were in the same situation -AND- all of you got the knife away with ZERO injuries and felt ZERO stress?
My neighbor who helped was a prison guard -- does that count.
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I did not change your argument...
you're attempting to excuse the law enforcement for her actions, and implying that it's collectivist to judge individuals based on their actions.
Every single one of those people has elected to swear an oath to uphold bullshit laws-- if they're 'doing their job' then they're bastards. If they're not doing their job then they're lairs. In choosing their profession, they've said quite a lot about themselves. I judge them on that.
If what your really trying to say is that it is not intelligent, as a political movement, to treat such individuals with contempt, then I can agree with you. Its not.
Am I being slightly ridiculous. Probably, I could likely get along with the liar cops if I got to know them. But on the whole their profession is a dirty business and the less contact had with them the better.
Now, that having been said let me address other aspects of your post.
Again... no fast movements... 84 year old lady (with a cane)... no threatening gestures-- they just tackled her. If that's a stressful situation for someone who supposedly is ready to eat danger and craps bullets for their day job then they're in the wrong line of work. The situation did not force action upon them, they simply decided not to explore alternate avenues and opted for a direct, violent, and stupid approach. I condemn them for that.
There's a difference between "uh oh this is a situation" and "I'M IN DANGER I MUST NEUTRALIZE THE TARGET!" I'll agree that the situation is 'stressful' on some level, however it sure as hell wasn't stressful enough to warrant the actions which were taken.
As to your assertion that I need to have 900K civilians who were in the same situation and managed to defuse it with ZERO injuries and ZERO stress... that's stupid. I don't need to have seen 900K presidents who invaded a country for no good reason, simply because they were afraid/'stressed,' in order to pronounce George Bush a Grade A asshole/moron.
Oh and PS:
Ive been in a situation with a person who had a knife. I was quite uncomfortable. I managed to talk the guy into putting it away. I mean... I did have to spend a few minutes gabbing (which was really hard) but I didn't have to use any special head-busting ninja moves.
PPS. I'm glad your neighbor was helpful.
Dlind: You did it again
My argument is real (REAL) simple.
One bad Civilian = One arrested Civilian
I do not feel responsible for the 2,500,000 assaults civilian-on-civilian per year -- do you?
Sooooooo, why do we judge the cops differently then we judge ourselves.
One bad Cop = One arrested Cop
My post on this thread is "why are we showing these videos on Daily Paul?
There are 100's and 100's of funny cop moments, heroic cop moments, normal cop moments on the internet.
Yet Daily Paul suggests that we as Ron Paul supporters believe that 99% of all civilian-cop interactions are negative.
We are misrepresenting Doctor Paul.
900K voting cops -- 10 unique friends and 10 unique family members = 18.9M potential voters -- right?
There's a collectivist way to address this -- which involves abdication of self-rule
Then there's an individualist way to address it -- which involves counter-economics and direct action (self-rule).
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But is it not reasonable for
But is it not reasonable for people to be upset about this?
What did the lady do? Did she stab someone? Did she attack someone? When did it become illegal for an adult to possess a steak knife? The police basically attacked her as if she was some sort of criminal, but then she was not charged with a crime?
The police really need more restraint in how they handle themselves. There was no reason to do what they did to that woman. This is very similar to how the elderly woman, who posed no threat to the officers, was attacked after Katrina.
If the police were not properly trained to handle this situation then I suppose this is something that we may be seeing in the court system a year or so from now. If an officer does not know how to respond that does not mean they should automatically default to violence. Maybe the officer should have contacted someone within the department who knew better. Maybe they would have found out the woman's medical condition and handled this without harming her or anyone else.
The only reason people get upset with the government is because it is so often deserved.
...
john2k: Of course it's "reasonable"
John: The "problem" in Law Enforcement takes a lot of deep thinking and understanding. To formulate a educated opinion.
If we start with the victim -- let's move toward individulism rather than collectivism.
Why was this individual Alz (sufferer) left locked up in a hot car (alone) with a steak knife?
Level #1: Had the latter not happened there would be no incident
Why did this group of individuals abdicate their self-rule and call a budgetary and tenure tract collectivist agency to solve this problem?
Level #2: Had one of them or several acted "maybe" they could have come up with a wiser and more entrepreneurial decision?
Did the officer step out of use-of-force rules / training?
Level #3: No she did not -- infact she showed restraint -- The problem is some of these seniors look 120lbs but when you move them they are 90 with no connective tissue strength. If you apply "normal" technique force on a woman 40 years younger she doesn't bleed as easily and she doesn't go down as hard.
I've taught tackles and throws (as part of my defensive tactics training) to officers (specifically relating to senior arrest) -- I have a few "older" students who volunteer and the officers are always amazed at how "light" and yet "strong" they are.
As I said it took quite a few firefighters, paramedics, and a burly neighbor to wrestly my late 70's / early 80's grandfather into the ambulance during his grand mal seizure. I mean "serious" wrestling -- he flung a few of them off -- by off I mean to the ground or back several feet. He had emphazema, neural damage, alcohol poisoning, and gangreen (sp?) -- yet they couldn't stop him.
I senior (enraged) can easily put a knife 6 inches into you -- even a woman.
"My" officers (who I trained) would have made use of the 2 on 1 drills I teach.
Forget about fancy disarms or shooting the knife out of their hand -- if that happens on the fly great (appreciate it), but you'll have a lot of injured folks that take that approach.
Had this been a young man or woman -- they would have been beaten, pepper sprayed, tasered, and maybe shot.
This "was" discretion -- just never applied it to someone so frail and slight.
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Why was this individual Alz
Irrelevant.
Possible innocuous scenario just to satisfy you: Daughter bought cutlery for big dinner. Went into store to get food, asked mother if she wanted to come, mother said no thank you. Daughter leaves. Mother suffering from Alz freaks out after a few minutes and gets loose in the parking lot.
THEY PAY THE COPS SO THAT WHEN TROUBLE HAPPENS THEY CAN CALL PROFESSIONALS SUPPOSEDLY TRAINED IN HOW TO DEFUSE TENSE SITUATIONS AND PROTECT THE POPULACE. Why the hell are we paying them (and people like yourself to train them) if they can't handle an 84 year old lady without breaking the back of her head open?
Its like asking why did people abandon their self-rule and call the fire department when the fire broke out-- because they pay for it, and it's there to put out fires! DUH!
Bad rules are meant to be broken, and just because its a rule doesn't make it right. There's some dumbed down truth for you. If what I witnessed was within the 'use-of-force rules / training' then those rules need to be rewritten. Its that simple.
Dlind: You can't "hear" the abdication of responsibility in your
argument can you?
900K cops are responsible for the actions of 900K cops?
1 for 1 -- accross state-lines and in real-time right?
Hahahahaha
In the 70's we would have helped that woman and would not have called the cops -- well at least the early 70's.
3 Generations of Heavy Welfarism
Reminds me of the fat lardy people in the movie Wal-E -- stopped walking themselves -- probably stopped whiping too.
Abdication - Abdication - Abdication
One guy on this thread told me (a trainer) "if you would teach them to think" -- In regard to the fact that I do train law enforcement.
Now it's my fault -- hahahahaha
Abdication - Abdication - Abdication
It's always the evil "them" that steal our freedom. Those dang Banker Jews or those pesky Cops or those "other" Politicians
No our Freedom is lost in 5-Steps
1) Not working as a sub-contractor and paying taxes
2) Hiring tax paying tradesmen
3) Voting
4) Buying "anything" from a non-local corporation
5) Not buying Local Organic
That's it -- There is no "them" -- It's all "we the abdicators"
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See there's the problem.
The officers are taught to react, and assume a worse case scenario, rather than assess the situation. Sure we want to insure the safety of the officer responding, but not to the point of this type of this over-reaction.
Perhaps if you'd train them to think instead ?
The bottom line is, in my opinion, police training is designed to insure the safety of the officer "at all costs", which is too high a standard, It works, as there are not that many Officers killed on the job, (A Pizza delivery guy is more likely to get killed than and officer), but the cost of that are events like this one. Perhaps some better situational awareness on the part of the officer, (i.e. think don't blink) maybe some investigation rather than using a rote memory by the book response would improve responses. Just what do you think the odds were of the old lady really hurting someone ?
And sure, maybe some bad decisions were made to create the situation, but that's irrelevant, since we are discussing the police response.
ironman77: It's really easy to judge (monday morning quaterback)
Your "opinion" of police training is not based in reality -- you are not a cop -AND- more importantly you don't train cops.
Firstly I don't train cops in niceness exercises
Secondly I don't train 900K cops -- I've probably trained 1000 or more over a nearly 20 year career. Also, Navy Seals, Delta, Prison Guards, Bouncers, and lots of women's groups.
I think it's a waste of time debating on a Ron Paul political site the merrits of collectivist abdication (the crowd in the above video) over the merrits of individualism as it pertains to current events.
Cops work for a collectivist organization
97% of Civilians (voters in last election) are collectivist-abdicators
I'm not arguing this situation -- I'm arguing why this video is on Daily Paul -- Answer: Because it serves an agenda.
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We're the conusmers of government services...
we're always right.
Your opinion of how they ought to be trained in is obviously flawed if you think for one instant that nothing wrong happened in that video. Perhaps you are right-- maybe we should not blame the officer, but instead individuals such as yourself who train them how to be violent but neglect 'niceness exercises' or what I like to call, commonsense tips on how not to brutalize targets who are not an immediate threat.
Dlind: I already said cops are not trained to disarm Old Alz
women.
Also -- You are un-aware how easy a knife pentrates the flesh.
Go google "knife wound"
The cop used a little too much force -- I agree, but that's hind sight.
In the 70's "we civilians" would have taken care of our own.
Welfarism breeds this type of disconnect.
What are you doing to change cop-world -- other than blitching (blog ranting)?
What did you do today? yesterday? day before?
How many cops are there in America -- How many on the street? -- What are the training Costs? -- What step-by-step plan have you come up with to rectify the situation?
My feeling is your involvement ends when you get board misrepresenting Ron Paul on DP.
RP would say: 1 bad cop = 1 arrested cop
That's the individualist philosophy -- It's non-abdicating -- it's non-prejudicial over entire groups of people.
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I'm reminded of that
I'm reminded of that shooting between two undercover cops working for different agencies in the same neighborhood. One "maddogged" the other, and eventually this stare-down escalated into gunshots.
There is ego and arrorgance at work here...
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson, 1799
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson, 1799
SirThinksAlot: I like your name
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Any Comments from
Whitehall, Ohio PD?
every cop(i mean pig) that
every cop(i mean pig) that does something like this should be fired and tazered
Hold up.......
I have not watched the video, and "slamming" an elderly woman to the ground is indeed disgusting and uncalled for!
However, don't automatically assume that she was helpless. I had a tiny grandmother, afflicted by Alzheimer's, who would suffer "sundowner's syndrome", or heightened combativeness towards the end of the day. She was known for, in her Alzheimer's, attacking people with forks, and scratching nurses who worked with her. She was a sweet woman on many days, but she could get confused and angry quickly, and she could get a little dangerous. So, if we are speaking of an elderly Alzheimer's patient toting a steak knife, regardless if she was threatening anyone, then we are speaking of a potentially dangerous situation to herself and others. Now, like I said, roughing her is despicable, and this video highlights the need for police officers to undergo Alzheimer's awareness/sensitivity/care training. You do have to understand the dangers, though.
My question is......WHAT sort of half-brained IDIOT would leavetheir elderly, Alzheimer's-afflicted mother ALONE in a HOT CAR? With Alzheimer's patients, you do NOT take your eyes off of them....not even for a SECOND! (I apologize for the excitable fonts.....but this really ticks me off!)
"There is no news. There is only the truth of the signal. What I see. And, there's the puppet theater the Parliament jesters foist on the somnambulant public." - Mr. Universe, Serenity
thesomnambulantpublic.blogspot.com
"There is no news. There is only the truth of the signal. What I see. And, there's the puppet theater the Parliament jesters foist on the somnambulant public." - Mr. Universe, Serenity
thesomnambulantpublic.blogspot.com
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