my healthcare situation...

0 votes

my wife was a school teacher...

i am self employed...

she had a decent insurance package...

she was let go because of licensing restrictions under 'no child left behind'...

she continued the insurance via COBRA... the plan cost was $1400 a month for a family of four... this is outrageous... this was more than double my mortgage payment... it broke our bank... our deductible was $750 to get a lower rate...

we have since had to drop the insurance and now are without it... since dropping it, i have contracted pneumonia... the costs for a simple xray and office visit are more than one month of mortgage payment...

how are we supposed to afford this as a family?

i guess my point is this: is this a fair system in your opinion? i hear all of the arguments against obamacare... but i don't hear any ideas as to how to reform things...

how many other people are in the same boat?

what are the other ideas? because this status quo certainly cannot continue... i can only imagine how many millions of others are in my same position...

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If you aren't hearing other ideas it is for two reasons

A)The media is refusing to talk about them

B)You are not doing your homework (or you are not listening when they are presented)

For starters, nothing is going to "fix" your situation Obamacare or not.

For the future, Congress CAN take action.

It can:

1-a)Repeal requirements as to what diseases / conditions insurance companies must cover. (a single male doesn't need prenatal coverage and one in his twenties doesn't need prostate cancer coverage) This will allow companies to tailor policies that are better suited and accurately priced for the individual. (or family)

1-b) Remove requirements to cover pre-existing conditions. Insurance is not a Rich Uncle Money Bags, it is for in case s%&t happens. Pre-existing conditions are known in advance by definition and thus not s%&t that happens later. Imagine if government required your auto insurance to cover oil changes, new tires, and routine maintenance. Do you think it might very quickly become ridiculously expensive for coverage not to mention what people have to pay that aren't covered?

2) Repeal tax incentives for business to provide health insurance. The unintended consequence of this is that people can't get insurance for a decent price outside of their employer, and lose their coverage when they change jobs. People need to buy health insurance irrespective of their workplace - just like auto or homeowners policies.

3-a) Use the Interstate Commerce Clause for what it was intended for - preventing states from erecting trade barriers between themselves thus "regulating or "keeping regular" interstate commerce." They do this by prohibiting barriers to purchasing insurance across state lines. Currently I can by Auto insurance from a company in New Jersey if I live in Louisiana. I can't do the same with health insurance. Being able to shop around, I can buy the best policy that fits my needs without paying for stuff I don't need. Increased competition will drive down prices.

3-b) Allow drugs to be imported from other countries. Stop the protectionist nonsense that only serves to enrich big pharma. This is no longer about health, it is now about profits. That is a BIG problem. So the solution is simple: make the right decision for health. IF there is not then enough money to be made by so many companies in pharma, then some will just have to fold their doors. Too bad. We should never prop up industries or companies for which the market doesn't have a natural demand. That is unsustainable and ridiculously expensive.

4) Create medical savings accounts - allow people to defer money tax free into private savings accounts earning interest to be used for paying medical bills. No taxes at all if they are used for that purpose, and only tax the interest earned if used for another purpose. (savings is always a GOOD thing) Make sure not to restrict usage to the account holder. (the account holder can use the funds to pay for ANYONE's medical bills, their spouse, children, grandchildren, sibling, parent, friend, etc. - as long as it goes for a medical bill, who's bill it is, is not relevant)

5-a) Repeal the legislation mandating HMO's. This is where a huge part of the cost of increase care stems from. An old "government scheme" gone ary.

5-b) Repeal medicare, medicaid and the prescription drug benefit for the same reasons. Medicare started out as a "public option" and has taken over. Doctors routinely have to charge others more to cover the payments that Medicare doesn't make. Everyone should pay for their own care.

6-a) STOP confusing health "care" with health "insurance." The two are NOT one and the same. One is a service or product, the other is how it is paid for. The problem isn't the cost of how it is paid for, the problem is the cost of the original service or product. "Coverage" is irrelevant if the cost is low to begin with. I am sick and tired of hearing people bitch and whine about people who don't have insurance. WHAT ABOUT THOSE OF US THAT DON'T WANT IT????!!!!

6-b) Insurance is itself a HUGE part of the problem. If people had to pay for things out of pocket more often, they could shop around and force prices down. Leave "insurance" for catastrophic life deciding issues and conditions. Long term livable and treatable diseases should most likely not be covered, or should only be covered say for initial diagnosis and the patient shop around for the best treatment afterward.

6-c) Doctors, hospitals, clinics, etc. should be required to post and readily provide the cash price of all goods and services including all taxes and fees in an easy to understand format that allows the consumer to shop around and question what they are getting for their money. Lasik procedures are just such an example that is generally not covered by insurance and that people have to pay out of pocket. Prices have plummeted in this market, and services are competitively offered and priced.

6-d) Dept of Health and Human Services can relegate itself to a mere ratings agency and data aggregator that ranks or displays cost/efficiency/positive reviews on doctors, hospitals, and clinics. Similar to Food Safety ratings at restaurants, but more detailed and more prominently displayed and acknowledged. No need to shut low performers down, the market will take care of that swiftly.

7) TORT REFORM!! Screw the damn trial lawyers already. If any of you bastards are reading this - burn in hell. I know there are legit malpractice cases, but if you guys don't clean up your act and stop your frivolous lawsuits, you should all be tarred and feathered on main streets across the country. (the good with the bad, because the good obviously aren't trying to weed the bad out of the business) If it passed already, there needs to be instant repeal of the latest trial lawyer kickback that allows you crooks to write off trial expenses early rather than when you realize the payoff as done currently. This sorry piece of legislation will only encourage you bloodsuckers to hurry up and file lawsuits to show a "loss" so you don't have to pay taxes on your ill gotten gains that the consumer ends up paying in higher prices and premiums. If you are a trial lawyer and don't want to end up hanging from a lamp post one day, it might be wise of you to take a zero tolerance policy towards any sharks in your midst and find ways to eliminate them from the profession or you will feel the people's fury one day whether you did anything bad or not. When the revolution starts, you'll be the first group they come for.

*** WE MUST RESTORE THE PRICE MECHANISM

It has been interfered with by the existence of insurance and other government programs. THAT is why costs are skyrocketing. The price is not being allowed to serve its function as market regulator between supply and demand. Introducing yet another third party payer between the service and goods providers and the actual consumer will only further distort that. The law of supply and demand is as immutable as the law of gravity. And I don't see people successfully thwarting that one too often.

*** HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT.

It is a service or a product that is provided in the market by people acting in the market.

*** THERE IS NO NATIONAL "HEALTH CARE SYSTEM"

Any more than there is a national "paper clip" or "vacuum cleaner" system. Stop thinking like a socialist.

*** HEALTH CARE IS NOT A MACHINE

You can't just punch a few buttons here, twist a knob there, slide a lever like so, or flip a few switches and make everything run smooth. If you are thinking along those lines, then you are thinking like a communist. Such is the mark of CENTRAL PLANNERS. You can't "centrally plan" an economy. The "economy" is 6.5 billion people simultaneously trying to fulfill their unlimited wants, needs, and desires, with their limited resources. No one person or any group of people, no matter how smart, can "manage" that for even a small subset of 6.5 billion people. Hell, they can't even manage their own lives most likely, much less someone else's.

*** Notice, my solutions do not involve "tinkering" rather they involve efforts to "stop tinkering" and to create an environment where people are free to offer and buy medical goods and services according to their needs and resources without interference by government or any "do gooder" bureaurat. [sic]

Additionally, for the moral argument as to why government CAN NOT provide medical care or coverage see this thread:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/105656

I haven't had family health

I haven't had family health insurance for eight years. We have been healthy and have payed for doctor visits out of pocket. 100 months times $600.00 for family health insurance would add up to $60,000.00. So if we have some health issue arise, I figure that I have $60,000.00 that would have been paid to an insurance company in my column. Now it is up to me to try and bargain as best I can for any health care that my family needs but even if I spend the whole $60,000.00 I would still be no worse off than had I paid for the insurance.

If at all possible...

explain to any doctor who will listen about your situation. They may put you on a payment plan or lower your cost if you tell them you have no insurance. When my youngest broke her arm in 2007, the hospital wrapped it and referred us to a specialist. The going rate (with insurance) for a cast and treatment was $2700.

It took a lot of wheelin' and dealin'..and some hustle...but they lowered the price to $600 when I told them of our situation of having no insurance.

Pneumonia is very serious. You need it treated immediately.

______________________

I am a bit confused

With insurance you were paying every month double your mortgage payment, $1400, for insurance with a $750 dollar deductible and I guess what you are saying is that you got no care or benefits from it. Now that you are not paying for insurance every month at a savings to you of $1400 a month, you are now complaining that you have to pay out of pocket expenses that are less then what you would have to pay in one month if you had insurance? Let me repeat this for the slow of learning, with insurance you were paying 1400 a month weather or not you used it but without insurance you have to make a one time payment that was less then your monthly payment because you got sick. How many months did you go without insurance? How much did you save in that time?

A fair system is one in which people must pay for the goods and services they get. If you disagree with that then you think that either some people must work for free or that other must pay your bills.

I am sorry that you have gotten caught up in the idea that everyone needs health insurance. Your own story tells that you paid more into the system and never got anything out and your cost out of pocket was less then what you would have paid for the insurance just for that one month.

By definition, insurance is the allocation of risk. A means of indemnity against occurrence of a uncertain event. It was never meant as a means to provide routine services but a cheaper way to indemnify the individual if they accrue a huge loss.

I am forced by the state to have insurance on my car, which also covers any medical damage I might do to others or myself if I get into an accident, but it dose not cover if I need an oil change or new tiers. It is a system that takes the risk factor of the huge losses and spreads that out among the buyers and works because most people don't get into accidents.

What you want is health care for your every daily need and truth by definition that is not insurance. Lets face facts. Health so called insurance is so messed up because the cost of daily care is linked to people who need the the catastrophic care or the people that just love to go to the doctors or love pills. Your bill is based on what others take from the system and not what you require. Its about spreading cost and no government plan will be any better but that you will not be able to opt out, it will be by force that you buy it.

I think we need to open up the market so that you can buy a health care plan from a doctor instead of having to buy it from an insurance company. Why add a middle man? I also think we should distinguish regular care from catastrophic insurance. This is a big issue with the small business owner or self employed. Its not so much as how can I pay to see a doctor if I get a cold but the worry of what happens if I really get sick and I am at risk to lose my business because my hospital stay cost so much. Its not right to make someone pay into a plan that covers everything if they just want protection against one thing. Give people the freedom to buy what they need and not restrict health insurance to state lines. Lets open up the market.

Paul Revere

my question is are you able to recieve a tax deduction for your health care premiums I thought that being self-employed you are not able to.But Eden says that you are ,my question to you is have you tried to deduct this expense on your taxs?

Deducting it from taxes doesn't change the outlay

Only wage slaves get tax returns. Writing something off only makes the tax check you have to write slighlty smaller.

I may be confused but I don't agree

If I have to pay 6000 a year for insurance and a 20% tax on every dollar I earn. That means I must earn 7200 in order to pay out 6000 for the insurance and 1200 to the gov.

If I am not taxed on the 6000 I pay for insurance then I only need to earn 6000.

I don't understand how you can say that it doesn't change the outlay.

Each month you pay out $500 to the insurance company

Let's say your company makes $10,000 a month. Every month $500 of that goes to insurance. At the end of the year you have to pay taxes. Because you spent $6000 over the course of the year (if it could be written off completely), instead of writing a check for $25,000, you would write a check for $19,000. So every month, you OUTLAY $500 and at the end of the year, you OUTLAY another $19,000. It's not like you saved anything, you just didn't get robbed as much. If only buisiness had just two expenses... That tax check hurts no matter how much you can reduce it.
Again, only wage slaves get the autodraft thing where your money is instantly taxed.

I see your point

but until we can abolish the income tax I will take every tax deduction I can get.

If that were our reality we wouldn't even have to be talking about this ridiculous health care bill. If the income tax were abolished I know I'd have more than enough money to pay my own doctor bills and save a bunch to boot.

Deductions rock

A lot of small business owners also don't pay themselves well enough to worry about income taxes. And if they use their house, car, electricity, all that, and buy enough stuff. You can have a break-even or loss at the end of the year. There's no taxes on 0 income.

Eden

not to add to the confusion but if this guy is paying 1400 a month isnt he paying more then 6000 a year more like 16,000 a year.

Indeed he is so if he can get a tax deduction it would help some

but like MikeLawson says we are still wage slaves. And I agree.

I'm no wage slave

Wage slaves work for someone and get a paycheck every week or two with deductions made. I don't. I live in company housing and drive the company car, but I don't get a paycheck.

Correction: make that tax slaves...

I also work for myself but as long as I have to pay taxes or go to jail I still feel like a slave or maybe a serf is a better term.

I believe

the problem with our health care today is caused by over regulation causing need for massive administration, It is also highly corrupt.
We need a free market system where a major hospital in each congressional district runs an insurance plan for all in that district. It is then up to the district to keep the hospital cost effective inorder to attract new business to the district. This would eliminate mass administrative costs.
On a small level we stand a better chance of fighting corruption.
What do you think?

Dont get sucked in

by hush bimbo or hannitizer they offer no solutions If you go to these townhall meeting dont make yourself look stupid have a solution instead of just crying socialism.

You should have...

bought some cheaper insurance that only covered 'big things' and saved the 1400$'s a month to cover minor medical expenses.

the plan cost was $1400 a month for a family of four... this is outrageous... this was more than double my mortgage payment

the costs for a simple xray and office visit are more than one month of mortgage payment

Did you go to the doctor and have an xray twice a month? Probably not.

Were you getting your money's worth?
Probably not.

Hindsight is 20/20... Good luck brother.

should a would a could a

Why did you pay cobra? The prices for cobra are always very high. You should have been checking out other health insurance plans that you could pick up for being self-employed. You should of been doing that even before you started paying cobra.

Do you belong to any organization with your self-employment?

You can find some group policies through organizations such as city Chambers of Commerce, BBB, or do you belong to a professional organization that offers health insurance for self-employed individuals.

It may not be to late to check on these or possibly join a group that does offer health insurance plans.

Good luck.

I'm going to share something I found.

Cost of hip replacement in the United States:
45,000 U.S. dollars
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/business/11hip.html?_r=1

Cost of hip replacement in the United Kingdom (privately):
8900 British pounds = 14,733 U.S. dollars
http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/hospitaltreatment/whatdoesitc...

Of course if you're in no rush it's free for a permanent resident.

CHA-CHING!

CHA-CHING!

Hip replacement~$3,000

* My husband just had hip replacement this past winter..he has company insurance...cost is about right... at $48,000 US...but our out of pocket was only $3,000!
He was in pain for at least a year ...but once he decided...no wait time at all !

My Dad ...74 ..has stage IV kidney cancer...he is outliving his prognosis so far.. although terminal...he is a true warrior spirit in this.... but people in his condition are dying in UK and Canada years before they have to !
**
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

So first of all... the problem isn't how much it costs you...

If a surgery costs nearly four times as much as it does in the rest of the world there is something wrong with the healthcare system.

CHA-CHING!

CHA-CHING!

Cost of hip replacement at

Cost of hip replacement at Bumrungrad = 10,000-12,000 (everything included)

http://www.bumrungrad.com/overseas-medical-care/medical-serv...

Well...

"Thailand's new government has recently achieved the national universal healthcare coverage"

http://thaihealthit.org/ThaiHealthSystem.aspx

CHA-CHING!

CHA-CHING!

No rush at all...

Average time to wait for a hip replacement in America... you set the appointment, max 3 weeks.

Time to get a hip replacement in England, average (if you are approved) 53 weeks... for free would be a 4 YEAR wait and counting.

Of course, why would you be in a rush if it was free.. it's just pain and loss of mobility, after all.

Those of us that have money would like to buy a service... which will not be possible soon. Probably because we're too busy standing in a line waiting, while we are being taxed so that the younger guy in front of us with no job can get the same procedure for free.

Gotta love freedom, huh?

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

Ahem...

"The latest figures show that of the 197,492 people waiting for an orthopaedic operation (not all of these will be hips), just under half will have waited up to two months and only 10,797 will have waited five months or more."

"What about private treatment?
Going privately will eliminate the wait, but costs are high. You can expect to pay between £7,500 and £11,000 for one new hip, depending on the type of joint; resurfacing costs slightly more, usually up to £12,000.

BUPA carries out 3,000 hip operations a year, and charges between £7,500 and £9,400 for a hip replacement. Private medical insurance will generally cover you."

http://www.saga.co.uk/health/healthyliving/bodymatters/hipre...

Gotta love sources, huh?

CHA-CHING!

CHA-CHING!

Nice propaganda...

now google stories about actual people that live there and the time taken. Or ask friends that live there, as I have...

Of course, we could just go with health ministry estimates, as you are doing.

They do sound a lot better!

Now I can apply that to the Obama death-care plan too, which I'm sure you have read... or I can apply my own experiences with governmental healthcare from when I lived in Canada for 20 years.

But that's not as good as an online official source.. so I apologize... have fun with what's coming!

:)

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

Well, actually here's a bunch of stories from people

throughout Europe:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/jane_blevins... (an article)

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/9a5fh/an_american... (a comments thread on said article)

http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2009/what_ob... (and one about doctor visits)

Funnily enough, personal anecdotes are actually more propaganda-ish than statistics.

Just ironic that you asked for them, is all.

CHA-CHING!

CHA-CHING!

Weird.

I guess you are entirely correct and my friends and family that live under the system are just lying to me. A conspiracy.. woot!

Irony indeed... let us hope that the figures that you are finding online correspond to reality.

And you know you can't trust people that you talk to on that new-fangled telephony device... only whackjobs use that thing!

We'll see when it is given to us, since that's what's gonna happen anyways. I've two doctors in the immediate family, so I really don't care at all about real emergencies except for a lingering pain in the chest area caused by us once again as Americans losing a freedom.

Maybe I'll see a doctor for that.... in 6 months.

:)

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

"na na na I can't hear you"

Fixed that for you.

CHA-CHING!

CHA-CHING!