Here's the story.
Can't believe the jury did this....
This is also the trial where the IRS subpoenaed the LV newspaper's files on people who left comments about the trial on-line. They felt threatened & wanted names.
http://rgj.com/article/20090815/NEWS07/90815011&OAS_sitepage...
  |
|
★
The Daily Paul is a community website with no official affiliation with Ron Paul or his Presidential Committee. The content of posts and comments on the Daily Paul represent the opinions of the original poster, and are not endorsed, approved, or otherwise representative of the opinions of the Daily Paul, its owner, site moderators or Ron Paul. This site may contain adult language and adult concepts. If you are offended by such content, or feel you may be offended by such content, point your browser to a different site IMMEDIATELY. For more, read the Full Disclaimer
© 2007 - 2011 by The Daily Paul. Not paid for by, nor officially affiliated in any way with Ron Paul. | General Site Disclaimer | DMCA Disclaimer | Advertise here
tax withholding is bad for democracy
WSJ article by libertarian Charles Murray
www.capoliticalnews.com/blog_post/show/2911
Democracy? That's one thing America is NOT supposed to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW6AKVyi6As
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
bump
randpaul2010.com
schiffforsenate.com
kokeshforcongress.com
rjharris2010.com
There's a thread here
There's a thread here somewhere about government subpoenas for the identities of people who commented online about a case that I suspect is this one.
They never had a chance.
They never had a chance. Think about it. If they and others like them could win, the IRS would be out of business.
Oh yeah? U.S. Federal Circuit Court of Appeals baby!
I've been paid in gold and silver dollars for over a decade and the IRS refuses to contact me. That's okay because I don't care to speak with any members of a seditious criminal syndicate anyway.
Why Robert Kahre Lost on his Gold/Silver Case
You are in the wrong venue of thought on defining employee, employer, etc.
The stipulation is covered under the use of the term "wages" of employer, employee, etc. in the jury instructions #48 - that statement puts you into and through the portal of the Land Oz, i.e. the Administrative State - slick isn't it.
THEN, Wages is covered in Title 26 USC §§§§§§ 3401-3406.
THEN, There must exist "part 1" "substantive regulations" as posted and stated in 26 CFR 601.702 (includes the mandates of 5 USC § 552(a)(1) and these must be published in the Federal Register for "wages".
THEN, The ONLY part 1 substantive regulations concerning WAGES under 3401-3406 published are 26 CFR 1.1441-(-2, -3, -4, -5, -6, -7, ), i.e. non-resident aliens under Codes section (3406((a)(6) ) and 1.1461-(-1, -2,), 1.1462(-1, -2) - all foreign corp. or non-resident aliens also under Code section 3401(a)(6). Hoo-haa! This summary is probably too complicated most people, but there it is - plain and simple.
Under Chrysler v. Brown, 441 U.S.. 281 only the "substantive regulations: have the "force and effect of law", i.e. the same as a "statute." Most people are clueless on the use of "substantive regulations" that have the "force and effect of law." And to achieve that status is ONLY DISCLOSED in the Federal Register where the "agency" must state it is in compliance with 5 U.S.C. § 553, i.e. and give us (the slaves) the ability to comment and then the comments must be published in the Federal Register.
THEN, they regulations sit in front of Congress to READ (you bet) for 60 days and THEN if Congress sits on its rear end and does nothing, it STANDS beyond even the reach of Congress unless they reenact a new Policy Statement (CODE). See 5 U.S.C. § 800 series for the 60 day validation as stated.
how sad...poor family and
how sad...poor family and kids. another family destroyed by cooruption.
that sucks
----------------
Ron Paul Supporter Since 1997
`Wise people, even though all laws were abolished, would still lead the same life'- Aristophanes -
“We have allowed our nation to be over taxed and over regulated and overrun by bureaucrats, the founders would be ashamed of us for what we're putting up with.” Ron Paul
How strange.
The court took judicial notice of a dollar when it recieved court filing fees AT ONE TO ONE VALUE, that is: Bobby paid the filing fees in silver dollars. The court accepted them at one to one par with Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) to comport with the equal weights and measures clause of the Constitution. If they didn't the court would be caught in a fraud. This case proves that FRNs are not dollars or money since the prosecution states the coin is to be governed with the "fair market value" and not the Constitution. This is called sedition.
Do not give up Bobby, your fellow Americans are going to help correct this!
Court Fees Paid at Face Value in Silver Dollars?
How stupid that makes the prosecution, Fed, IRS, and ultimately the court look!
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Double jeopardy.
He was already acquitted. WTF is the government doing trying him again?
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
'They' are NOT the government
They are a corporation masquerading as the government. The original jurisdiction government is largely vacant. Sorry, don't have a link handy.
'They' do not have to follow the Constitution, even though they swear an oath to uphold it.
'We' have to stop shirking our responsibility to hold 'them' accountable, but we have to re-learn how.
No kidding! The government brought something like 161 counts!
The government lost on all of them.
I guess the government is trying to get back at them.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
In 2007 this was legal -- now it nets 300 years?
http://www.lvrj.com/news/46074037.html
Based on an acquital and this precedent, wouldn't one feel justified in continuing the practice? Since this is a new precedent, it seems to me to be ex post facto.
THIS GUY WOULD HAVE WALKED OUT FREE...
...IF I HAD BEEN ON THAT JURY.
Guaranteed.
And I would have shook his hand on the way out of the courtroom.
"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul
He wasn't convicted for
He wasn't convicted for using gold and silver to pay his employees. He was convicted because he did so in an attempt to evade paying taxes. To me this is the key passage : "But prosecutors said he selectively assigned a value of the coin income — switching between face value and market value depending on whether he was trying to lower the tax liability or qualify for a home or car loan." So if he got paid 1 ounce of gold he told the feds he got paid $50 but he told the credit company he got paid $950(or what ever the value of gold was at the time). Does anyone have any doubt why he did this? This wasn't someone defending the Constitution or trying to promote the use of gold as a currency this was someone just trying to evade paying his taxes.
And yes, I'll admit it, if he had succeeded I would have tried to talk my employer into paying me in gold. :-)
According to the Supreme Court:
There is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Mr. Kahre knows this.
It doesn't matter what you sell your gold coins for later.
They must be taken at face value if they are legal tender.
So there's nothing wrong with being paid in gold and silver coins, and then later selling them for further profit, which literally would result in being paid one amount, and later resulting in a larger income.
It is the government that is twisting this.
They don't enforce this on your quarters or worthless paper bills do they? Your income in the face value, not the worth of the materials. However, if later you did manage to sell a bill to a collector for a high value, would you then not consider that income?
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
It had nothing to do with
It had nothing to do with what he could sell the gold for at a later date. If he wasn't trying to commit fraud why did he tell the IRS 1 number and the credit companies another?
Could he have not reported face value earnings to IRS?
Then at a later date sold the dollars for whatever he wanted, and reported a further income?
He reported the actual face value to the IRS. At the very worst, he lied to a credit company. What does that have to do with the government, currency, and the IRS?
Either way, you already know the government is wrong, because the IRS is illegal and so is the current monetary system of fraudulent and counterfeited money.
The real criminals are the IRS, Fed and their accomplices in government that fail to honor their oaths.
At the most, this man was trying to avoid the criminals collecting illegal taxes under a fraudulent system of money, and the real thugs are the idiots prosecuting him rather than upholding the law.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
fraud, perhaps?
"At the very worst, he lied to a credit company. What does that have to do with the [court]?"
Had said credit company felt defrauded by his alleged dissembling, they might have legitimately filed a complaint.
Otherwise, I think that Kahre should walk, and that the rest of us should begin to make it a habit to offer United States Legal Tender Gold & Silver coin in trade, and that merchants should generally offer 95 to 96 % discounts in exchange for such use.
Gaea Vindice
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr
This is one of those cases that really upsets me! Why?
Because it's an example of massive government twisting and ignoring the law in order to destroy just a few of it's own people.
In that aspect, it's similar to Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the FLDS raid.
The Constitution states that only gold and silver are legal tender. Yet, pay with gold and silver coins, and go to jail in the extremely corrupt government of the United States of America.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
for the states
(I don't like how the IRS is trying to refuse to apply the face value as set by Congress. That being said...)
"The Constitution states that only gold and silver are legal tender. "
That applies to the states.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_trans...
Section. 10.
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
http://FlipFlopRomney.blogspot.com
The States are the United States.
Therefore, if only gold and silver is legal tender in the states, then only gold and silver is legal tender in the united states.
This is why for most of our history, our money has been gold and silver or backed by gold and silver.
Our dimes, quarters, and half-dollars were 90% silver even up until 1965.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
the states are not the federal gov't
(I want to repeat that I disagree with the prosecution's idea of using something other than face value of circulating coins. Congress sets the face value and if some agency doesn't like the face value they should talk to Congress.)
The Constitution provides specific responsibilities to the federal government leaving everything else to the states and the people. The states are not the federal gov't. Notice this part of the Constitution uses the word "Congress" which is not a synonym for "State".
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_trans...
Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
If you think the states are the federal gov't, then does it follow the states should also be able to borrow against the credit of the federal gov't ("borrow Money on the credit of the United States")? If you think so, then you just solved California's budget problem!
The Constitution provides Congress the ability to "regulate the Value thereof" of coins. In 1985 Congress authorized the mint to make eagles (the coins in question). Congress said the value of a silver eagle is one dollar. The IRS should talk to Congress about the value of the silver eagle, not the taxpayers.
"... for most of our history, our money has been gold and silver or backed by gold and silver."
Worthless paper money has been around for a long time. During the Civil War, both sides issued paper fiat money.
http://FlipFlopRomney.blogspot.com
The united States is comprised of the States.
If nothing but gold and silver is legal tender in the states, then nothing but gold and silver is legal tender in any state, or the united States. Since Congress coins the money for all the states, and the states are not allowed, the money Congress coins must be gold and silver.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
If
"If nothing but gold and silver is legal tender in the states,"
As much as you may want the Constitution to say that, it doesn't say that. Please read the previous two Constitution quotes and links to those quotes.
"... the money Congress coins must be gold and silver."
The Constitution doesn't say that. The Constitution leaves it up to Congress to regulate the value.
"Since Congress coins the money for all the states, and the states are not allowed,"
The Constitution doesn't say the states can't coin money. It says the states can't make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts.
The states can accept gold/silver coin as payment of debt. (Other than eagles at face value) the states don't, but the states could accept non-federal-reserve and non-us-mint gold/silver coins and be in compliance with the Constitution.
http://FlipFlopRomney.blogspot.com
No State Shall Coin Money
No state shall coin money - U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 10.
No state shall make any thing but gold and silver legal tender - U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 10.
What applies to one state applies to all states, or the united states.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
[citizensoftheUnitedStatesofAmerica_news] Why Robert Kahre Lost
Attachment: Special List only.
Excerpt - Jury Instruction #48 of case 2-05-cr-121 - NEVADA - Dockets 2516 (Kahre's proposed jury Instructions) and 2517 Final Jury Instructions.
Any party of the special list that wants the final/proposed Jury Instructions + the complete docket sheet, e-mail me at ralph@jusbelli.com
Pacer is locking up my Firefox due to the length of the docket sheet for some reason - reported. I want to read the superceding indictment as that should be interesting to see how a Gold "Dollar" does not really mean a "dollar" of the Federal Reserve and then if the good ole retired Federal Constitution ever enters the scene or stays on display only in DC for what was given to the American citizens, but no longer used due to the coup d'etat of the constitutional Republic.
The Jury Instruction proposed by Robert Kahre's and the other Defendant's attorneys lost the Case and they were found guilty on Jury Instruction #48 on Gold and Silver. A "Dollar" on a gold coin doesn't mean really a "dollar or "money" but it is "property" to taken at "fair market value" if taken as "wages." Duh and Hello, does this ring any bells?
The proposed jury instructions by Kahre Attorney
"Jury Instruction #48
When given or received as wages, gold and silver coins must be reported at their fair market value, not at the value listed on the face of the coin. When the fairmarket value of legal tender exceeds its dollar value as money, such legal tender,for purposes of federal income tax law, must be valued as property at its fair market value rather than as money by taxpayers. This result is unaffected by the fact that such legal tender may be used as money to pay debts at the dollar value listed on the face of the coin.The gold and silver coins at issue in this case have a fair market value asproperty in excess of their dollar value as money. Therefore, they must be reported to the lnternal Revenue Service for federal income tax purposes not at face value but rather as payment in property valued at its fair market value."
If this doesn't frost something I would like to know why not. There is the constitutional Republic and then the illusion of the headless 4th Branch of Government known as the "Administrative State" established as an Act of Treason in 1946 in the Administrative Procedures Act as I call it in the Land of Oz or restated in Congress' Prison Plantation wherein all the illiterate, ignorant and stupid "citizens of the United States" who want the same "rights as white citizens" as codified today in 42 U.S.C. § 1981, 1982, and 1988 (Revised Statutes of 1878 Section XXIV) exist in their fictional state.
First "wages" under 26 U.S.C. §§§§§" 3401, 3402, 3403, 3404, 3405 & 3406 the only Part 1 regulations are 1-1441-(x) ARE for NON-Resident Aliens - Duh.
5 U.S.C. § 552(a)(1) mandates publishing in the Federal Register if it affects any "individual" and 26 CFR 601.702 supported and evidenced by 67 FR 69673 published November 19, 2002 "part 1 substantive regulations" MUST EXIST wherein under 44 U.S.C. § 1507 the courts must take judicial Notice.
That jury instruction is replete with ERRORs.
"Wages" is the entry into the Administrative State"
"for purposes of the federal income tax law" is found where?
Given a "Gold Dollar" becomes "property" in other than money for taxpayers and is "property." Think about that for bit - !
I will probably be discussing this on my Sunday Show on RepublicBroadcasting.org Sunday at 5-8 CST.
Those high powered attorneys are so stupid or they are in on it - unbelievable.
Put the Blame on the Attorneys and not the stupid jury, as they were setup for to find only a guilty verdict - with the jury members being merely the uneducated and stupid pawns to rubber stamp the illusion of the coup d'etat treasonous judges, attorneys and DoJ.
Ralph
Chief Justice Marshall, in the course of the debates of the Virginia State Convention of 1829--1830 (pp. 616, 619), used the following strong and frequently quoted language:
'The Judicial Department comes home in its effects to every man's fireside; it passes on his property, his reputation, his life, his all. Is it not, to the last degree important, that he should be rendered perfectly and completely independent, with nothing to influence or control him but God and his conscience? * * * I have always thought, from my earliest youth till now, that the greatest scourge an angry Heaven ever inflicted upon an ungrateful and a sinning people, was an ignorant, a corrupt, or a dependent Judiciary.'
In a very early period of our history, it was said, in words as true to-day as they were then, that 'if they (the people) value and wish to preserve their Constitution, they ought never to surrender the independence of their judges.' O'Donoghue v. United States, 289 U.S. 516, 532 (1933).
Notice: I am not a counsellor-at-law or attorney. All research materials provided are for you to check out and use at your discretion, and is protected under the right of free speech in all forms. I neither suggest that people file an Individual Income Tax Return or not file - that is a personal choice for each man/woman.
There are three lists that may be joined by the home page of www.jusbelli.com. There is a special e-mail list for $120 per year donation that includes attachments - contact me via e-mail to join. Requires a minimum of 5 meg. of e-mail storage by your server.
New time slot at Republic - one hour earlier starting on November 9, 2008.
I have a talk show on Republic Broadcasting accessible by going to
http://republicbroadcasting.org/ The show will be on Sundays (5PM - 7 PM CT) [NEW TIME SLOT]. Call in is 1-800-313-9443.