Healthcare Survey
Submitted by GabrielPage on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 21:51
I'm confused. Looking at the link that Michael posted, it seemed that a goodly number of the people posting were in favor of some sort of government run health-care system, some even going so far as to advocate a single-payer system like the UK's. Yet, I was under the impression that most of the people on here, though, were free-market libertarians.
So here's the question: Do you support government involvement in healthcare, and if so, to what degree?
»
what about the political implications...
of Gunverment health care. I really don't want those in power to have access to medical records for political purposes. So Mr. ???, does your wife know about the VD you were treated for 2 years ago? So Mrs. ???, vote for this bill or your constituents might find out about that abortion you had 7 years ago. Plus they do such a good job of running the DMV, the Post Office, and taking care of our roads--Hell yeah, let's have these treasonous bastards that have ripped us off for generations run our health care--TOTAL INSANITY!!!!
Governments are good at killing and enslaving
people, not caring for them. We left ours with only one duty and that was to protect liberty. Fail.
"Government spending cannot create additional jobs. If the government provides the funds required by taxing the citizens or by borrowing from the public, it abolishes on the one hand as many jobs as it creates on the other.", www.mises.org
"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com
No
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randpaul2010.com
schiffforsenate.com
kokeshforcongress.com
rjharris2010.com
Not for his plan
but it is time to straighten this out instead of doing nothing. I would like to see competition, cash options, personal health trusts, etc maybe even local co-op plans are something. We may have to write our own bill pay off some congressmen to get it to the floor for discussion and a vote.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
I want government involved in leaving me alone
After that, no involvement whatsoever.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
ditto that for me 100%.
"We have to spend money to keep from going bankrupt"
Joseph Biden VP , USA
"Since 1789 the only government on Earth that has the power to crush the American people`s liberties across the board is the government of the United States"
Robert Higgs
And me.....
"I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace".
Thomas Paine
"We need to attract people who create more light, than heat" (Fortune cookie-8/14/2001)
to the degree
they are no part of any health care for anyone. they are inept, corrupt and ignorant.
Dr. Ron Paul's Response To Obama's Health Care Plan !
The current system is most definitely broken, and it must eventually be abolished if we want to regain both our health and our freedom.
Forced nationalization is the worst possible answer.
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/health-care/
beesting
Yeah, I know!
But that was so "yesterday", and now all the Obama-lovers here feel the need to push Obama's communist desires, instead of Ron Paul's wise decisions.
Free Candy! Free Candy
All it will cost you is your temporal freedom and your immortal soul.
A BARGAIN !!!
I don't
support the government being involved at all. They couldn't even run a whorehouse. True story.
Don't read the comment below.
It is a waste of your time. It is the same BS misinterpretation of the bill that has been floating aroung on the internet and on here and quoting it makes us look stupid to anyone that reads and has any reading comprehension.
I could see the government legal hacks turning it into the faalse statements below, but it is not what the bill says. Read the actual bill for yourself and compare. Look back through old threads on here. Someone did a great job of putting the facts with the fiction.
How many times will I have to say it. Oh no not this again. Oh and No I am not for the bill or any government involvment in healthcare.
I just received this e-mail.
I apologize for the length:
A great synopsis follows by Dr. Fraser. Blessings, Joan
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 1:43 PM
Subject: [Fwd: Health Care Bill]
For those who like to read, here is the Obamacare bill as a .pdf file. Now you can see it and read it with your own eyes, once you do, you’ll realize the lies this administration is telling the people because they know that the majority of the people will not read 1,008 pages. The politicians will not do it themselves and that is their job.
Below it has already being layout for you by a Physician, so you can now verify the truth behind this bill.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf
Letter from a Physician
Now you Can see why Obama wanted this Bill run thru before anyone could have read it. The doctor did the work for us. Get all over these Congressmen. I don't care which district they are in......
To: This is a letter written by Dr. Stephen Fraser to Senator Bayh. If you would like to send it on to your Congressman, he says to feel free to copy it and send it around to our friends and to senators and representatives.
July 23, 2009
Senator Bayh,
As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the healthcare bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all.. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through Congress will be a disaster if passed.
I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.
Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!
Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!
Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your banks accounts for elective funds transfer.
Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!
Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens.
Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e.., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.
Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)
Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE!
Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.
Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.
Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)
Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.
Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax". Yes, it says that!
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. Low income and poor are affected.
Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, will all be paid the same!
Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.
Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.
Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions.
Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission - Govt will penalize you.
Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own!
Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can you say ACORN?!!
Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.
Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.
Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable!
Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Comittee. Can you say HC by phone?
Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult.. Think Senior Citizens end-of-life patients.
Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)
Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.
Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!
Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life!
Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?
Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. One monthly payment to a community-based organization. Like ACORN?
Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.
Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.
Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.
Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.
Respectfully,
Stephen E Fraser MD
See page 838 – Scary!
--
NOTICE: Due to (Un)Constitutional Presidential Executive Orders,
the National Security Agency may have read this email without
warning or notice. They may do this without any judicial or
legislative oversight and it is in violation of yours and
my absolute and God given right to privacy, supposedly secured
by the 4th Amendment.
The only thing true about the warming part of "global warming" is
the hot air spewing from its proponents bleating lips.
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08/15/09 06:10:00
beesting
GREAT analysis and letter. No way I'd want
blundering, self-serving, arrogant, ignorant government bureaucrats to have any influence over my health care decisions.
thanks for posting Dr. Fraser's letter.
Sorry for blasting your post.
Nothing personal I just like truth. ;)
chonk, I didn't see your comments
before posting. But it's not helpful to raise objections without being specific.
At any rate we agree we don't want the government involved in health decisions, no matter the specifics of the proposed bill which could be interpreted and debated endlessly.
This thing has
been going around forever and I see they have added a different signature to it this time. I;ve read the actual bill and compared it to those statements. It is bogus
But I do agree the simple fact is we don't want incompetent government involved in health care. I just have a pet peave about using lies and misinformation. It causes people to run around spouting this stuff as fact and makes them look stupid. We should combat these things with truth and integrity.~Peace
There have been other threads about this on here. Way too many because it keeps coming up. There was one person that actually posted the false statement with the actual context of the bill. They did a great job.I apologize for not remembering who. But I'm sure you could look back through the old blogs and find it.
I have read here that
I have read here that Obamacare is a distraction from more important matters. But I believe if this health care bill becomes law, our country will never recover. It may take a few years for the socialist agenda to come to total fruition, but nevertheless we will have finally become a socialist country. Even with all of our problems, government run health care will signify the final nail in the coffin of our republic. It will be the end of America as it was envisioned by the founders. We will only go down hill from there.
~~~~~~~
"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again." Daniel Webster
I'm for cost analysis
Figuring out how, what, why costs are skyrocketing.
It seems to me that there are laws in place that are preventing the free market from being completely competitive.
I heard something the other about laws that prevent Insurance companies from competing across state lines, an interstate commerce law of sorts.
It's the first time I had heard about it. I'd think this would allow for price fixing within the confines of each state.
Is anyone familiar with this.
It almost looks likes the Gov. allowed costs to skyrocket so they could then step in as "saviours"..It almost worked.
"I don't endorse anything they say"
~Ron Paul On the 911 Truth movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k
What great impact has government had on Medicare?
Absolutely nothing....people still die without the proper medical treatment as far as I am concerned, and illegal aliens still give birth to their illegal babies in this country, and are given food stamps,welfare, social security for grandma/grandpa who have never even worked in the United states while the illegal father still walks away, and later is reunited with his wife, and children years later when American tax payers have taken care of them. What a bunch of crock, I say, how about you????? Personally, I wish this government would just follow the laws, and do WHAT IS RIGHT, AND CONSTITUTIONAL, PERIOD!!!!!
No to any form of government
interference OR regulation! There is NOTHING in the Constitution about health insurance or that the US government should regulate or involve themselves in it at all. One of the most costly things about health care is the red tape and paperwork that is all mandated by the government already. Every time I go for an appointment, there is a new government mandated form that has to be signed for some ridiculous reason. I have private insurance (Anthem) and have never had a problem with them denying coverage or interfering with any of my doctors.
Nope.
Not at all.
Ever.
Repeal ALL the existing government intervention into the health care system.
Both systems are corrupt, but for different reasons.
Government involved in health care is almost as bad as government enabling HMOs to dictate what can or cannot be done.
Rand Paul had an excellent view on this and that is to buy health insurance like life insurance. One price for life or for a specified length of time, not one year at a time that is now in force.
Nope to the nth degree.
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
NO....
the governments current level of involvement is a big part of the problem with our system. Too many regulations keeping it from being anything close to a competitive system where care and cost are balanced. The FDA is a criminal organization that allows Big Pharma to rule and sabotages competitive efforts....therefore, it must go also. They approve more dangerous drugs than ever today...yet they shut down and place gag orders on establishments that promote natural remedies.
"I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace".
Thomas Paine
"We need to attract people who create more light, than heat" (Fortune cookie-8/14/2001)