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Stefan Molyneux: what does Canadian socialized health care look like?
Submitted by atrickpay on Wed, 08/19/2009 - 00:54
The details are just horrific... After listening to that, I have a new found appreciation of just how evil government is... » |
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Molyneaux is so good because he gives the
irrefutable moral base of an issue; then the logical consequence of the immoral
alternative; then the facts and data to show the practical results.
Finally had time to watch both Part 1 & 2. Excellent.
On Calgary's objection below, I think you'd need to hear more of Molyneaux's philosophical arguments to understand how fundamental and comprehensive his concept of force is, and how well he develops his case against any aggression, especially by government since they have the biggest guns and have robbed our money to hire an army too; but of course he also argues against private aggression.
COALITION system , the more
COALITION system , the more the merrier...Let's get Americans to pay the tab for our friends failing systems.
naughty, naught
Healtcare end game naughty,
Healtcare end game
naughty, naught
Now we're getting somewhere.
First lets toss NAFTA in the garbage. A lot of Canadians supported Obama because they believed what he said about renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, he didn't mean it.
Like boiling a frog in water----look at our education system
since the government took charge. It`s been a long road but they have educated the idiots that now control your liberty by voting for more pro government programs.
"We have to spend money to keep from going bankrupt"
Joseph Biden VP , USA
"Since 1789 the only government on Earth that has the power to crush the American people`s liberties across the board is the government of the United States"
Robert Higgs
Stefan Molyneux gives more
Stefan Molyneux gives more wisdom in 22 minutes than most people do in a lifetime. His website is one I send people to all of the time. Thanks for posting this.
You Judge A Tree By It's Fruit, NOT its Flower
We can't fix our system until you fix yours
First of all doctors were not forced back to work in Saskatchewan "at gunpoint". They went on strike on and lost like the air traffic controllers during the Reagan administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan_Doctors%27_Strike
Most Canadians would support privatisation of certain aspects of health care delivery. Why hasn't it happened? Because of NAFTA. US companies could sue under NAFTA to demand access to the Candian market, and they would likely win. Canadians are more afraid of US Health care than they are of "Socialism."
Which segment of society votes in the greatest numbers? Old people, and they do not trust politicians to do anything other than make the present system worse. So we are stuck with the status quo.
I do get tired of refuting attacks on Canadian "socialism". I defer to the Cato institute which many DPers are familiar with.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10208
By that
he means that the government forced them back to work (ie. at the root of government action always lies the threat of a gun). I don't know the history behind that. Are you saying that the government didn't force any of them back to work?
edit: I just checked WIKi, and it sounds like, yes, they were forced back to work by the politicians.
Show me where it says that
They even got to raise their fees!
" The government brought in doctors from Britain, the United States and other provinces in order to staff community clinics set-up to meet demand for health services. A July 11th rally in support of the doctors in front of the Saskatchewan legislature in Regina attracted about 4,000 people, one-tenth the number hoped for by the organizers. By mid-July some of the striking doctors returned to work. Lord Taylor, a British physician who had helped implement the National Health Service in the United Kingdom, was brought in as a mediator and the "Saskatoon Agreement" ending the strike was signed on July 23, 1962. As a result of the agreement, amendments to the Act were introduced allowing doctors to opt-out of Medicare and raising fee payments to doctors under the plan, as well as increasing the number of physicians sitting on the Medical Care Insurance Commission. By 1965, most doctors favoured the continuation of Medicare."
OK, I just read the whole wiki thing line by
line lol. I think you are correct. At first they were going to be forced into the Medical Care Insurance program (ie. by gunpoint if they were to resist ;-)). But...there were some amendments allowing them to opt-out:
Thus, the doctors (at that time) were not forced into it.
And yes, regarding the issue of the strike, it was ended voluntarily by the doctors.
In Canada
health care is the responsibility of the provinces. When the Sask. experiment worked the others copied it more or less. I think that is what Kucinich is in favour of. Let each state come up with its own plan.
Politicians in canada didn't do it because they are nice guys, they were forced into by public opinion. Then they saw it was more efficient and cheaper, at least it was.
They went on strike and lost
Because they lost public support. The other provinces copied Saskatchewan because the system was so popular.
bump
for tomorrow.
Thx.
Surprised more people haven't commented. The reality of government medicine is something that I consider frightening.
Thank you for this link
Molyneux will be remembered as one of the great pro liberty thinkers!
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
Next time you are sick
Call Molyneux and maybe he will heal you with a "Vulcan mind meld" or such like.
I like Molyneux also but I doubt if he would be happy in any kind of organised society.
I think you misunderstand his position
Molyneux wants an organized society. He opposes the current statist society because it is unorganized--statism is chaos!
Yeah, well good luck with that
Maybe in the year 2500 or so. How do we keep the human race from destroying itself in the meantime?
Reason Not Luck
No individual has the desire or the means to destroy humanity. However, Mutual Assured Destruction has been the policy of big government for decades.
If you compel citizens to depend on government for health care and all the necessities of life you make it impossible for the people to remove their support from tyrannical governments. No one can protest even the grossest inhumanities of a government that holds the keys to the larder and the clinic.
Socialism is a suicide pact.
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If it were up to me
I would toss the words socialist, liberal, and conservative in the garbage. They are so loaded with baggage they no longer mean anything.
Molyneux said something I agree with towards the end. He said our system is parasitic towards yours system. But it works both ways, a lot of our best doctors and nurses went down there during the 90's because of gov't cutback because they could earn more money.
Don't waste your time
Don't waste your time "toss(ing) the words socialist, liberal, and conservative in the garbage." Toss big government in the garbage and all those special interests with fanciful appellations will disappear as well.
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An admirable long term goal
This sounds like an anarchist argument, one with which I could certainly sympathise. However, during times of uncertainty people are more likely to cling to government, religion or the NFL or whatever.
In the Long Term...
...we'll all be dead.
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Shrink the power of government
that's the best answer that I can give. Also secession and FSP's sound effective to me....more effective than national electoral politics anyways.
Ya, he's definitely at the leading edge of
bringing philosophy to the masses via the internet.
---
The proper term for politicians is not "leaders," but "rulers." - Paul Hein