Hi, before you continue w/ your college degree or start college, read
this. I have yet to see a college that doesn't offer degrees which makes me think they're in the business of selling degrees, but instead of saying that, they charge "tuition", which is a fancy name for payment of classes & cumulatively a degree. See you're not satisfied after simply taking a bunch of classes until you have a degree, letters behind your name. If you took all those classes & didn't get a degree, you would be just as educated, it's the payment of the tuition which allows you to get a degree. Ph.D.s are awarded by other Ph.D.s, they pick the topic of discussion, same w/ a masters degree, you do all the work, all the research, you present it to them & if they approve & YOU PAY, you get an MA or PhD. behind your name, you could just as well have done all that work yourself, but b/c you paid for a degree, you got it. You did all that research for them, they got free research out of you!! You became their employee for free under the disguise of being a graduate student, it's all in the psychology. Who knows what the relationship is between colleges & employers, since many jobs require degrees, and therefore, payment to a college in order to get a job, to make yourself marketable. Tell me this, how does a college become a college, that is, who decides a college that awards degrees exists & doesn't exist. And, it seems to me they're trying to make cookie cutters out of each 1 of us, think the way they want us to think, we're on a production line & they stamp us out. We are their raw material. Why aren't we evaluated based upon our education experience, & maybe # of college credits instead of a degree? There's nothing wrong w/ that. If we were evaluated that way, we wouldn't know any less if we did have a college degree. Keep in mind John Taylor Gatto & Charlotte Iserbyt's book on the history of American underground public education, the intention of the public school system, and college is just a continuation of that. It doesn't surprise me that there is/ if there is a conspiracy behind college education. Why else would teenage boys & girls, little boys & girls be pushed from their parents home when they're 18 & sent far away to live & fend for themselves on campus, when they hardly know what they want to do w/ the rest of their life & yet they're supposed to take 4 years of classes, all so they get a degree which they might be able to get a job in. The purpose of a college is not to prepare you for life, to prepare you for a job, it's to get tuition out of you, at least 80,000. How many people end up getting jobs they studied for/ got a degree for/ how many end up unemployed after graduating, how many when they're 30 finally figure out what they can deal w/ doing w/ their life & go back & get another degree, 1 they really wanted? A job is not about having a degree, not about something you have a passion for, you're interested in, a job is about what you can mentally tolerate doing 40 hrs/ wk, 52 wks a year, more than that if you're self-employed & nobody pays you to stay home sick or take a vacation. People get their degrees, get their dream jobs & find out they hate them. National Education Assn NEA was founded by Rockefellers.
If colleges/ universities are so competent, why do we not hear about the private ownership of the federal reserve bank there, or election fraud? Why do we not hear that there is no law requiring us to pay an income tax there, or that there is no requirement to have a SSN? Why do we not hear that most of the federal agencies that exist are unconstitutional? Why are we not taught that the police exist to arrest & take you into custody, they they will use all information you involuntarily or voluntarily give them against you in court or that they can & will lie to you to get a confession out of you -- and offer criminal justice degrees for employment in the law enforcement sector? WE HAVE THE HIGHEST PRISON POPULATION IN THE WORLD FOR GOD'S SAKE!! This country has 1 of the largest populations of college educated in the world, supposedly top notch universities, our Congressmen go to college, our senators do, our President, our Supreme Court Justices. Our country is over 2 trillion in debt. No excuse. How could this have possibly happened if our colleges & universities were doing their job? The answer/ our universities/ colleges have made it happen/ allowed it to happen.
What about....
homeschool colleges? Are they any better?
_____________
The answer to 1984 is 1776! ~ Alex Jones
When asked what did you give us?
"A Republic, if you can keep it" ~ Benjamin Frankiln
The answer to 1984 is 1776! ~ Alex Jones
When asked what did you give us?
"A Republic, if you can keep it" ~ Benjamin Frankiln
This article pretty much nails it.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north748.html
Also, fta, MIT is posting its curriculum online for FREE so you can self teach yourself what the kids are learning there
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm
^^^^ a must.
You are talking about the
You are talking about the perversion of college education. There's a difference between that and the benefits of a college education. The point of the college infrastructure is two-fold: quality control and human development. There is a benefit towards putting someone through the rigors of college and/or graduate education. Yes, it deters diversity and independent thinking but there is also a problem with an absence of general consensus and argument. Without that, nobody could talk to each other.
The idea behind college is
The idea behind college is to learn to reason and think on your own. Except the opposite happens, you get brainwashed and the only thing your learn is what channel American Idol is on.
"The price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"- Thomas Jefferson
There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan
"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr
Advice
Do NOT take federal loans to go to school.
Besides giving the potential
Besides giving the potential to make maybe 10-20k dollars more a year college is a waste of time...
The same people who tell you, you have to go to college are the same people who mindlessly regard themselves as law-abiding, tax paying citizens... They are just sheep eager to push you in line and have your coat fleeced in the same manner as them.
I agree with some previous posts.. In college history classes I learned that we got a constitution and a bill of rights, but these documents are USELESS and can be interpreted to mean anything!!! I have a professor who actually said this! No shit.
My college history class taught me that FDR was anti-communist! Give me a fucking break, FDR brought socialism to America stronger and with more than any president ever before! What the fuck are they talking about!
In my college history class I was forced to memorize lies, regurgitate them on tests, and subsequently do whatever I can to wash the LIES from my mind! Which is hard, they muddle up your view of reality with Marxism-Leninism, but a form of communism that is castrated!
It is not true Marxism, it has no balls, it is a just a subtle dagger in the back of every person in the back who goes to college history (as the blood of freedom bleeds out their back) at the University of North Texas under Professor Randolph Campbell (Head of the History Dept. at UNT)... He is a tool, a mindless leftist, and a horrible teacher. Fuck I am pissed off
I'm gonna break my rusty cage and run.
Here is a relevent article
Here is a relevent article about forgiving College Loan Debt.
""The City Council of Albany, N.Y., would seem an unlikely champion for college graduates struggling to repay student loans in the midst of a slumping economy.
And yet the council on Monday night voted 12 to 0 in favor of a resolution that “urges the federal government to consider forgiving student loans as part of a stimulus package for young people and to move forward on reforming the student loan process.”
In explaining its action, the council noted in its resolution that “the average debts of students graduating with loans rose from $18,796 in 2006 to $20,098 in 2007, according to the Project on Student Debt.” The Council argued that “forgiving student loan debt would have a stimulating effect on the economy.”
Specifically, the resolution imagines how “responsible people who did nothing other than pursue a higher education would have hundreds, if not thousands of extra dollars per month to spend, fueling the economy,” and that, “as a result, tax revenues would go up, the credit markets will unfreeze and jobs will be created.”
Continue reading at: http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/forgiveness-2/
http://www.meetup.com/RP2012GrandJunctionCO
but you have to remember
but you have to remember you're not doing it completely on your own... you go to class/learn from your teachers, etc. Those teachers have to be paid, as well as the school facilities... yes, it's a business, but it's not like they're just pocketing your money and then not doing anything with it. You're paying for their services.
True but,
the teachers have rules and criteria mandated by the campus, state and federal government that they have to follow. This is usually where the corruption takes place. I know many professors who cringe and quietly complain about the the lies that they have to teach while knowing full well it is wrong....Being paid to lie? Perhaps being a plumber could be a better employment choice than teaching.
as a college student
as a college student currently, I don't know which way to think about things. I will soon enter my 2nd year in computer engineering because I plan on doing something with technology in the future. My schools' tuition isn't too high and I am also on scholarship, but I still have a few loans. I don't know if I would be able to learn as much without college about computer engineering, but i'm sure someone will just tell me to pick up a book and read. I guess it's because I've been it pretty much forever, i'm kind of into the whole school thing. I mean, the fact that I'm here learning about what's going on in the world while pursuing a degree in engineering hopefully shows that not everybody is brainwashed. There are students who are in college to learn more about a desired field as opposed to solely wanting a degree. and other people have degrees than government cows so lets not just name them. I mean, I'm not trying to say everything you're saying is wrong, because it does apply to some people, but others are trying to get a college education to have higher knowledge of certain topics.
A degree can be good
for getting better pay.Many times the prespective employer wants to see that degree, nevermind if one has enough experiece to write a how to manual!
Topics not related to your fied, take with a grain of salt.
I found sooooo much propaganda and flat out BS when I took some basic first year classes. [mainly science] I spent half the time arguing with the professor. I dropped out mainly due to not being able to stomach all the BS that was being passed off as fact.
All that and I still can't get a job in my field unless I have a few letters to back up my name.
Good luck with school, but please don't let it warp your brain or change your BASIC beliefs.
_BTW, to all the grammar nazi's.....I hated English comp.____________________
The answer to 1984 is 1776! ~ Alex Jones
When asked what did you give us?
"A Republic, if you can keep it" ~ Benjamin Frankiln
The answer to 1984 is 1776! ~ Alex Jones
When asked what did you give us?
"A Republic, if you can keep it" ~ Benjamin Frankiln
I went 4 years...
but did not graduate...needed another 1-1/2 years or so...My wife has been bugging me for 12 years or more to go back and finish my degree. I don't give a crap about a piece of paper, and she totally doesn't understand that mentality. She insists that, in order to get a "good job"..or even a call-back or interview, one needs a degree. I agree with her on that point, that MOST employers request a 4-yr degree in something....but, I'm smart..quick-witted and didn't need to take a course on "critical thinking" to figure out the ways-of-the-world for myself.
Currently, I'm quite poor (for the first time) and have been unable to improve my position. I get no responses to my dozens of job applications...but I rather doubt that a degree would change anything. With "some college" on my application, I seem to be deemed "over-qualified" for the open positions in my geographic area.
------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.
------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.
"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry
I'm back to add a little
I'm back to add a little more...
Yes, academia should receive a large measure of the blame for the trouble our country is in. The propanganda they spout is poisoning the minds of young people and spreading into the minds of the "educated" populace. Back in March, around the time I feel I became awakened to such things, I read a book by Joseph Ellis about Jefferson, called "The American Sphinx." Here are a few excerpts:
"After the New Deal...no serious scholar any longer believed that the Jeffersonian belief in a minimalist federal government was relevant in an urban, industrialized society." (p. 9).
'...no one seriously contemplates the elimination of Social Security or the Federal Reserve Board..." (p. 355).
"...a distinctly Jeffersonian way to frame questions about public policy means that on the most disturbing and controversial problems in contemporary American society--abortion, drugs, poverty, crime--the Jeffersonian legacy has little to say." (p. 355).
I imagine most people here could take Ellis on and have a good chance of winning.
But here's what bothers me. If everyone who thinks the way we do stays away from these institutions, we have no opportunity to change them. We need conservative intellectuals in our universities, if only to refute thinking like Ellis'. And unless we manage to change the thinking of many people about the need for a college education, we need a LOT of conservatives in colleges to effect the change we are seeking. Of course this isn't all of the answer, but as you correctly observe, most of our poltical leaders were educated at Yale, Harvard, and Princeton...and if thinking like Ellis' is believed to be reasonable, this is the kind of thinking they will use when they govern. We need to strike at the head.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
I cannot say I regret a
I cannot say I regret a moment I spent in college, though I also believe that college was not what ultimately made me an educated person.
One of the best things I did was enroll in my college's honors program, where I took a course in critical thinking. You might think I actually learned something from the professor, but I am not so sure...he was a Marxist economics professor, a nasty bastard who gave me my only B in all of my undergraduate career. Perhaps I *did* learn something from him after all, though, but only through my rebellion, and my own application of the skills of logic against the kind of thinking he was trying to propagate. When I went on to teach Freshman English in graduate school I did try to emulate some of his teachings on critical thinking, so I suppose this was in fact a kind of backwards compliment to a man I believe was otherwise misguided.
A few other professors perhaps set me on the path that eventually led me here...I remember a professor of eighteenth century English literature I had when living in Germany, and, again, I enjoyed harrassing and debating with him until we both would end our conversations in sheer exasperation. But if I hadn't learned to love eighteenth century literature from Professor Yochum, would I have gone on to read the Founding Fathers?
I learned a good deal of mental self-discipline in graduate school, but I am not so certain this was taught to me in any direct way by my professors. Maybe not a very good "real life" kind of skill, but it has served me well in my independent intellectual pursuits once I left college altogether, and has helped with my writing.
Is college a good idea for everyone? I doubt it. I enjoyed the mental stimulation, but my academic accomplishments also made me damn near unemployable. If I were to do it all again, I might choose something challenging but more practical, such as medicine or law. No one gives a rat's ass about the study of Greek, Latin, German, and medieval literature.
If you read John Taylor Gatto, and you go to college anyway, you are miles ahead of the sheeple who will be sitting in those seats next to you in the lecture hall. College would be a very different place if everyone were required to read "The Underground History of American Education." And if you read Gatto, but decide not to go to college and pursue your interests on your own, you still will be a better educated citizen for your efforts.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
HA
You took a class on critical thinking? Wow. To think people who lack such skills need to attend a class to learn them. I must be that far ahead of the curve.
By the way. Those sheeple. The ones cheering on Obama and killing our nation. They're college edumacated. So don't give me that bull about "Only sheep never attended college."
Only someone who has attended a "higher" learning would think in such terms.
Problem is you're no better than someone who hasn't attend your "higher" learning and that eats you up inside. Welcome to socialism. Brought on by Bush and handled quite nicely by Obama.
What's up with all the anger against the college educated...
here's a few facts:
Lew Rockwell - graduated from Tufts University
Ron Paul - BS from Gettysburg College, MD from Duke University
John Taylor Gatto - undergraduate career - Cornell, University of Pittsburgh, Columbia. post grad at City University of New York, Hunter College, Yeshiva University, and University of California.
Do you have any problem with those individuals? Why are you so sterotypical and offensive on this topic?
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
Seems you didn't read
Seems you didn't read between the lines. I think I learned critical thinking in spite of the efforts of the Marxist professor, not because of them.
I think you should read my *second* comment, though I am sure you will not agree with it either. Yes, college isn't necessary to make a person truly educated, but as things stand now, college is considered to be important, and we can effect change by changing the face of academia.
I don't care what you think of my education, by the way. It was the roundabout path that brought me to a way of thinking that we both share. Hopefully you've read one or two other comments I've made on the DP...how in the world could you conclude that I am a socialist?!
One last thing. I did NOT make the statement that the ones who did not attend college are the sheep. I made the statement that the sheep are the ones who did not read John Taylor Gatto. If you are fortunate enough to be capable of critical thought without the benefit of formal education, more power to you. Critical thinking should be the beginning and end of anyone's education, whether it was gotten at home or in school.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
I became
Disillusioned with college when all the friends I went to High school with attended state college while I went into the military. After 6 years I got out and was ready to hit the books. My friends had their degrees but didn't have any jobs. Most lived with their parents still. I knew what I wanted to do and where I wanted to be in life.
I had a dream.
Went to see a counselor and they said "well before you can do what you want here is what we want you you to do." I haven't looked back ever since.
Now I work for an ad agency. Shooting commercials and creating web-content. All without a degree. All my friends say "are you going to college" or "You have to go to college."
I reply, " Didn't you go to college?"
"Yes"
"You don't have a job and I do. So If I am doing what I have a passion for and love why ruin it by getting a truly worthless piece of paper?"
I have already wasted 6 years of my life.
I'm not going to waste another 8 years chasing a piece of paper when I could be using those years in studying and working in the field I want to be in.
F5CK college. College is a Racket and a socialist wet dream.
"F5CK college. College is a
"F5CK college. College is a Racket and a socialist wet dream."
I wholeheartedly agree, while I don't do what I have a passion for, but I do live comfortably and do not have a degree, nor any desire to get one.
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato
You're right, but...
I agree that people who go to college hoping to become a more intelligent or more whole person are in for a real dissapointment. I also agree that college is RIDICULOUSLY expensive (thanks government subsidies). And, yes, they most definitely indoctrinate the pupils.
But lets look at this situation with a "glass half-full" point of view. As a current college student (I'm not there for a degree, I am just a life-long learner & teacher) I cant help but notice the HUGE potential for the liberty movement.
In class, professors are allowed to discuss and share controversial topics and their personal opinions; the flip side is that most of them (I would say 90%) allow students to contribute their opinions. Every class I have ever been in invariably discusses current events at some point or another. This is our opportunity to get in there and illuminate the things discussed in your post. I make a habit out of distributing pocket constitutions to my classes and I share my opinion constantly. (One time in English I was able to persuade the Instructor to make "Atlas Shrugged" the required reading!)
The system is broken, providing the perfect opportunity for us to get in and spread the idea of Liberty.
Homeschooling.
If you want an education go to the library and read.
Tell me and I will forget, teach me and I will remember, involve me and I will understand.
grant
I'd like to go back to college and study Economics...
But I feel I'd be doing more educating than leaning.
"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul
Check out Loyala in New Orleans
the chair of the Department and some of his professors are all of the Austrian school and are Libertarians. (not all, but they all respect the Austrian position)
Dr. Block (the chair) also sits on the Mises institute board and writes for them as well as Lew Rockwell.
There are other Austrian leaning departments in the country. Seek them out.
(of course, you will have to put up with other brainwashed professors in other subjects but that is to be expected)
I went to an unacredited collage
For a degree in pastoral theology. But in the Independent baptist movement the collage has clout. Victory baptist bible collage. I payed 550 a semester (didnt live in the dorms so I dont know what the price was for that although it isnt to bad) and that included books. I remember when I was a kid and my mom went to school she was paying that just for books. And some of the books she was paying over a hundred dollars for just changed the cover on the outside and everything on the inside was still the same, from the 101 class to the 201 class.
Heck I remember having conversations in high school with the principle asking why someone goes to collage 4 years to teach a 6 year old to add. His answers never really answered anything. I asked the same thing to my now sister in law (who is a first grade teacher, and making way more money than me), and her answer didnt impress me either.
I would hire a non-college educated person
over a person with a degree every time assuming equal knowledge and experience. I can't trust a report card or a college grade point average because a lot of kids cheat their way through school these days. A bachelors degree means nothing in terms of how educated you are anymore. I wish more employers understood this, but there are a lot of companies that won't even look at a candidate unless he has a degree. I think that's a big mistake.
You can do that, but you
You can do that, but you have to take into account the persons personality. Depending on what field your business is in, all the experience and knowledge means jack if the person can't hold a conversation or hates being around people or any other combination of a bad personality.
If you can't tell the ones who cheated from the ones who studied their ass off to get their degree, then that is a personal problem.
Of course having a degree doesn't show how educated you are! It does show you put in the time and effort to learn and study the subject material. That is the point, to have documentation that you studied a particular subject. Anyone can say, "Oh, well I've studied so and so subject material for the past 4 years, I'd say I'm an expert." Someone else can come along with a degree in the same field and PROVE it.
That is my opinion, so take it for whatever it is worth.
A degree doesn't PROVE anything
Cheating is rampant in college. Many of my personal friends admit to cheating their way through. There is a person in my family that has a finance degree from a big 10 school and literally can't balance a check book. Grades and degrees don't mean jack.
You said, "If you can't tell the ones who cheated from the ones who studied their ass off to get their degree, then that is a personal problem."
No. It is a problem with our educational system. Job candidates need to prove their knowledge to me via some other means than showing a piece of paper with a grade point average or a sheepskin. That is the first thing I tell them. Their response to that one statement alone can be very telling. What value are grades and degrees when so many are effectively counterfeit due to cheating? Too many degrees are outright lies. In some respects, they are like fed reserve notes.
Cheating is rampant? Any
Cheating is rampant? Any proof besides hearsay? Grades and degrees do mean jack if you apply them. It all depends on the persons values and personality. Which I also pointed to in my first reply.
Like I said, if you can't tell the ones who cheated from the ones who studied their ass off to get their degree, then that is a personal problem. If I, a 22 year old, can tell the difference, then someone who has more experience in life should be able to tell much easier than I. Of course, I like psychology and being able to read people comes somewhat naturally to me.
I also stated the grades and degrees do not reflect a persons mental capacity or knowledge. Having one does not prove that one is capable of doing some skill, it does show that they have put at least some time in to study said skill.
That's all fine and dandy that you have your way to separate people based on the amount of knowledge they retained. No but here, it's your choice. I'm simply stating that pursuing college does somewhat prepare a person for life. You have all the responsibility stacked on you, no one else. I'm stating that college allows you to make bonds with friends that won't be broken.
If there is a problem with a teacher or the educational system, then you make up for it by studying on your own and learning the material on your own.
Back to work...
This isn't hearsay. Every
This isn't hearsay. Every semester I taught, I caught a cheater. I know plenty of other teaching assistants who caught cheaters too. Does plagiarising a Freshman English composition make a person a bad employee years down the road? I doubt it, but the lack of ethics is disturbing.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
You
Sound just like and Obamite.
You don't think Kids cheat in college?
Its gotten so bad that they came up with a PC word for it. "Academic Dishonesty".
Here is college. Get drunk. Find the completed worksheets online or pay someone to do rewrites of there notes. Print it. Go to class. Turn it in. Get drunk.Repeat till weekend.
Also your claims at being a psychic are totally an Obadiah thing to say.