Quick! Need a link or explanation about Socialism - thank you
Need to explain to an Obamatron who thinks socialism is "taking care of each other" and is not "evil" --
What exactly is in the healthcare reform, cap & trade, bail-outs etc. that would be considered socialism?
I'm thinking something along the lines that helping people per se is not evil; it's the government intervention, etc. ??
I already located the native Americans against Obama youtube video link, what else can I use??
Update:
Wow - Thanks for all the great links! I'm reading them all on a crash course-to-learning and I'll definitely be including the 10 measures of Communism.
I also came upon a good "Is Obama a Socialist?" article:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory169.html
Thanks again! I think I may have learned something today that will be useful information.




















Okay here's the response I came up with...
Thanks to all you helpful people! I was tongue-tied and clueless there for awhile...
___________________________
Re: your comment "Socialism my ass, so every other industrialized democratic western country is socialist? Why has this become a scare label? Why is taking care of each other evil?"
Dear ,
Of course "taking care of each other" isn't evil. It is only when government intervenes and takes away the choice of how, when and whom to take care of that turns it into a mess. And when done under the guise of "helping the poor" while enriching the pharmaceutical companies, the elite and private bankers, yes, it is very evil.
Whatever happened to private, voluntary charity and hospitals run by non-profit churches? That is being nearly wiped out by government intervention.
One of the tenets of socialism is redistributing the wealth. But how well has the government redistributed the wealth so far? Taken care of the poor so far? How many new projects and homeless camps have sprung up in the past few years? And you would like the government to control people's health care also? That would be disastrous, judging by all their recent failures.
When people become totally dependent upon the government and upon a welfare state of life, it is a sad thing. But that is what has happened to Native Americans on reservations and the poor in the ghetto, where they can only get ahead by selling drugs on the street corners. They've lost their sense of self and pride.
You might ask the victims of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans how much they were helped by the government. When everything is owned and run by the government, the endless red tape and incompetency turns everything into a nightmare.
Here are the 10 measures of Communism, which is only a hop, skip and a jump away from failed government socialism. You will see most of these are already happening under the guise of "Helping the Poor" or what some think of as innocent socialism. But it is a steady progression:
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.
Here is also an article the explores the question: "Is Obama a Socialist?"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory169.html
Best regards,
Good choice,
and good luck with your friend.
Isn't it amazing that you
Isn't it amazing that you can talk to an 8 year old and say, " Do you have the right to someone elses food etc. What if you have a gun? Your friend has a gun?" it's quite a simple conversation.
But, an adult is a 10 year journey through 1984, atlas shrugged, brave new world, then some actual thought starts to occur.
I thought I was fairly good at understanding all this and then I come on this site to find that the battle is sooo much deeper then ideas because of the central bankers. Don't know enough about it yet, but in Canada our central bank is owned by the Federal govt. Printed, given to the banks, than borrowed back to pay for, well, whatever.
Hey, look how far off topic I am!
Socialism is a broad topic
Ludwig von Mises passionately argued that any intervention by central planners is essentially socialism which can only lead to poverty and strife. The www.mises.org just might be the greatest searchable resource we have for the free market. Here a few links for the subjects that you mentioned:
http://mises.org/story/3586
http://mises.org/story/3564
http://blog.mises.org/archives/010358.asp (blog on Krugman, Healthcare and the Free Market)
The early colonists is a good example
http://mises.org/story/336
Excerpt:
"...This "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" was an early form of socialism, and it is why the Pilgrims were starving. Bradford writes that "young men that are most able and fit for labor and service" complained about being forced to "spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children." Also, "the strong, or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals and clothes, than he that was weak." So the young and strong refused to work and the total amount of food produced was never adequate.
To rectify this situation, in 1623 Bradford abolished socialism. He gave each household a parcel of land and told them they could keep what they produced, or trade it away as they saw fit. In other words, he replaced socialism with a free market, and that was the end of famines..."
blakmira
lew Rockwell has an artical that might help. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/keller5.html
a little book
tell him to read Animal Farm by George Orwell...and after that Obama Deception movie(free on google videos and youtube).
"Our planet is the mental institution for the universe."
-- Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell."
-- Aldous Huxley
Website:
http://www.libertypoet.com/
Twitter:
http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
The problem is
This guy may not read books lol... he is one of those that gets real angry when anything bad is said about his Savior...but he is local to my area & would be a coup to be able to persuade.
ok make him read comments on this website
http://www.iamsorryivotedforobama.com/
hope it works...
"Our planet is the mental institution for the universe."
-- Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell."
-- Aldous Huxley
Website:
http://www.libertypoet.com/
Twitter:
http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
haha! funny site
Regrets, I've had a few...
I'll include that one too.
Socialism?
We already HAVE communism... Or better described fascism/corporatism which is basically communism with corporate control.
http://www.criminalgovernment.com/docs/planks.html
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
Market-style Communism
That's what we've got.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
I'll include that link
But Communism has such "negative" connotations -- whereas Socialism sounds kind of cozy and helpful.
Davy Crockett: One of Ron Paul inspirations ( i believe) against
government taking from one giving to another. Very inspiring story. I felt awe when I read it....Something that the media doesnt tell you about him...All they do is use his legend to promote war/patriotism when it suits them. Kinda like they used Pat Tillman. You should read and share.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/ellis1.html
I wrote on it
http://ladalang.blogspot.com/2009/08/name-calling-in-america...
That's a real good blog
but I'm trying to dissect just a few attention-getting facts... this guy isn't going to read much of the response, I'm sure.
the American definition,
of socialism is "to take something of value from one man, by force or threat of violence, and give it to another man"
our system is based upon the natural rights of the individual. not upon the good of the collective whole.
this is why healthcare cannot be considered a natural right, it involves the fruit of another persons labor.
or at least that is my understanding and best way to explain it.
" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien
Knowledge is power, action is love.
That's a good broad description I could use
thanks - but any links?
Any ideas? Links?
Socialism historians? I just need a quick blurb re economics and government intervention, etc.
In the meantime I'm doing a search for Ron Paul quotes on socialism. But this guy made a comment on my blog about the Obama socialism poster (guess it hit a nerve even though I included Bush as the Joker Fascist), and I need to retort!