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The test of Anarcho Capitalism is undeway...

The old libertarian debate, small government of Police, Courts and Military defense VS the anarcho Capitalist claim from Murray Rothbard where you CAN have private military contractors ....see his book, "In Defense of Liberty; A Libertarian Manifesto" ........ is being tested today in Iraq. Listen to this interview about Blackwater and other "private defense" contractors.

The Black Water book… interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T1-LzobzYs&feature=related

In peace & liberty,
Treg




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quasi gov/corp

(fascist) organizations killing innocent folks around the world, in the name of freedom or democracy, and in pursuit of resources (oil, opium, or dollar hegemony) is messed up. It is a criminal assault on the lives and private property of others.

Anarchy ideally does not advocate government paying for and legalizing the murders of these mercenaries.

This is not Anarchy. This is Facsism!

If I were an anarcho capitalist ...

I would be offended by your post.

This is a stretch at best.

What is up with your posts lately Treg, you are starting to go the way of Hawkeye.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

WTF?

They are being funded BY THE STATE! Horrible post.
-------
http://www.RebootTheRepublic.com

another anarchy thread

I can't defend anarcho-capitalism anymore..its an oxymoron.

oxymoron?

...or redundant?
-Peace and Liberty
"Six Months That Changed the World"

no oxymoron

no oxymoron...the essence of anarchy is opposition to power and hierarchy...capitalism is is an economic system based on power, inequity and hierarchy... Some will disagree but I think stateless socialism is the only economic system compatible with the ideals of anarchy

Please explain.

Please explain.

the book is called

For a New Liberty; A Libertarian Manifesto.

A second...regarding the comments below about anarchists take on private contractors and gathered collective force should chuck out The Myth of National Defense from Hoppe.

Sigh...

["see his book, "In Defense of Liberty; A Libertarian Manifesto"]

It doesn't exist... which massively brings your credibility into question.

And where the fck does Rothbard say you can have private military contractors?

That is the biggest god damn strawman I've ever seen. How about your source your arguments, aye? :rolleyes: Rothbard is against the initiation of violence.

I think you mean private defense agencies? (PDA's) Right?

Furthermore, Blackwater is a Federal subsidiary of the US government. It would not exist without it.

Treg, how did voting for Obama go?

It is going to plan, I glad you recalled my argument

Now as you no doubt noticed, the republican faithful have moved AWAY from the NeoCons and are gathering around us in the r3VOLution. For the first time the republican rank n file are reading, listening and protesting right along with us in the Revolution and they are learning.... Each republican faithful is NOW, finally letting go of Bush and the Iraq war. To a man they are NOT defending Bush and NOT defending the Iraq war.

That my friend is the Obama victory for US.... FOR US. As I wrote before which you no doubt recall something about, if McCain had Won, then we in the R3VOLution would be WEAK today, not strong. These party faithful would not be at our tea parties, not questioning BIG GOVT, and certainly all for Defending the Iraq War and Cheering the War On Terrorism.

Because Obama won, these Republican faithful have had their eyes open, and now they are having their brains filled with the words and wisdom of the Revolution....the Ron Paul Revolution. I have lots of Republican friends, McCainiacs who NOW can't stand McCain and spend their days forwarding on Ron Paul videos and Audit the Fed stuff. These rank n file republicans are typical. They know they are against Obama, and they know that nobody is more against Obama then those of us in the Revolution. They are upset and angry and they want to have a better understanding of the issues, hence they are truly listening to the ideas of Ron Paul. They even are reading -- amazing.

Now, on to Rothbard, he says it in his books and writings.

Last, why the cussing?

We are all friends and family here... if we can't talk ideas, then where can we Ron Paulers talk ideas?

In Peace & Liberty,
Treg

Ps... check out in the 1st 2 minutes the Poverty Law Center guy and what he says is "happening" --- ie the rank and file is moving in our direction... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shSlL4oAT4Q
This my friend would have NEVER happened if McCain had won. So now we are preparing the field for a real Goldwater-Reagan-Paul-Ventura type presidential run in 2012 and 2016.

PSS. My good friend Chris here in Arizona who wore the two gun to the ObamaCare function in Phoenix Arizona has now put the fear where it needs to be. This fear is best summarized by the very last words of Chris Mathews "I fear the guys with a gun in one hand and the Bible & Constitution in the other" --- Well Chris Mathews, that is the Republican party and that is the rank n file republican. Thanks for fearing them. Now to answer Chris Mathews repeated question about why bring guns to a Healthcare debate -- that answer is because we had enough. Half the citizens are voting on taking stuff from the other half. THAT OTHER HALF is now at least, thanks to Chris, thinking of Packing Openly. It tells the other side, hey you don't like violence, you don't like being forced, so guess what, WE don't like being Forced -- in this case Obama Care. Alex Jones was right, Chris has metaphorically gone and "sat at the lunch counter" (that is a civil rights analogy for those of you under 30).

PSSS... Chris Mathews and the Southern Poverty Law Center guy wants to paint us in Arizona as "Right Wing Extremist" but the facts do not bare this out. Arizona voted for Steve Forbes back in the day, not Bush in 2000. We loved his 15% Flat Tax, which showed we had a lot of financial resentment - meaning we are paying too much for the government services that we get. Arizonans voted twice against making Martin Luther King MLK day here in Arizona, -- the national press like Chris Mathews asked his rhetorical question why and got his pre-decided answer (bigotry), but the fact is Arizonans realized it was to be another STATE holiday for State workers, and they felt that State workers had plenty of paid holidays -- so it really was financial resentment again showing up in the voting. When ObamaCare is discussed, it is also attacked as being a certain financial disaster in the making. So to answer Chris Mathews the answer is WE PACK OPENLY to send a message that you still are not getting, ENOUGH forcing us to pay for things we do not want. Should there be another Banker Bailout, you can bet that even Liberals will think about OPEN CARRY... So Chris Mathews, fear not for the President, fear for your liberal ideology that says, "Yes I can" pass laws and force money out of you to pay for things you don't want or believe in.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

i like

your style!

.

_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

aren't you referring to his book 'For A New Liberty'?

have you actually read the book?

having served a year in Baghdad, Iraq and working with Blackwater a little. i think i can say that is not what Murray had in mind. now i can't be for sure because he and i never discussed it. actually we never discussed anything because we never met. but i highly doubt Murray was talking about government funded private military contractors who operate as another arm of the state.

No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in - Bill Hicks

Going Blackwater

You know: Once you go Black..

Mathew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Blackwater is no test to

Blackwater is no test to Anarcho-Capitalism. They are bring paid for by the state!

I agree. Comparison of the the situation there to Anarcho-

Capitalism demonstrates the need for closer study of what the term: Anarcho-Capitalism genuinely was intended to encompass. Suggest reading Murray Rothbard's works on the subject. Using the title: "For a New Liberty" will yield better results in a google search for the book, or you can read it online at:

http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

What have you been smoking

blackwater wouldn't exist without government. They earn their profits by getting contracts from a government which initially got the money to pay them through force by stealing from taxpayers. This is hardly what Murray Rothbard envisioned.

If you want to have a serious discussion about potential dangers of Anarcho-Capitalism, why don't you bring up the Somali pirates or something. Not this nonsense.

Iraq is no test of anarcho-capitalism

I don't see how Iraq is in any way a test of anarcho-capitalism. One opressive regime with a monopoly on the use of 'legal' violence has simply been replaced with another that uses contractors.

bump

I was hoping to hear more from the anarchists on this one. It could be a great opportunity to discuss government funding of violent private organizations being more dangerous than those violent private organizations alone. In other words, a completely private military would be better than a public/private military hybrid. I think I read that 90% of Blackwater's budget comes from US contracts. I'm just thinking aloud, but I would LOVE to hear more discussion.

.

Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

me too!

More analytical discussion...lots of reasoning, logic, analysis, that sort of thing... not the hyperbole...

It is particularly challenging. The government has privatized or outsourced its military function. What step or steps would it take for a Black water to be fully supported by its Corporate clients? Is that how to get from this hybrid situation? Also I think that government hybrids are interesting to look at, such as the privatization of prison systems...

In peace & liberty,
Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

reedr3v's picture

Prisons, Iraq, military, I don't see anything in

your questions have to do with anarchism. If you want to understand individualist anarchy you'd do best reading some of the best works on the subject. Rothbard is good, Molyneaux is excellent (and very pacifist btw), and I won't label her but Ruwart's Healing the World is an excellent compilation of practical, non-aggressive solutions to real world problems.

I Read those books.

Think again, those questions certainly apply.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820