Well, I got a speeding ticket today. Any advice?
Submitted by bmcgrew on Sat, 08/29/2009 - 18:33
in
The circumstances:
- In Marietta, GA on my way to work
-The flow of traffic
-80 in a 65
-Laser gun
- medium traffic
Any advise? Or can someone point me in the right direction? I want to fight this thing. I need to find out where to find the courses and certifications that the officer has, but do not know where, specifically POST certification.
*Update*
Has anyone tried the Marc Stevens approach of questioning standing, impeaching the witness, and the conflict of interest unfair trial?
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do the crime.... do the
do the crime.... do the time...
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Yes write up a criminal complaint and charge the cop with fraud
write up another for official oppression and yet another for false arrest, as a ticket is essentially an arrest in which the cop bonds you at personal recognizance. If the ticket is an on or before it's fraud on it's face. You;ll need to look up the penal code numbers I assume it would be Illinois penal code and the charge (fraud, official oppression and false arrest.. If you google that it ought to give you something to go by. Don't give those to another cop they'll throw them away, which is a crime in itself. Give them to the magistrate your supposed to see for court. You might have to ambush him/her they don't like eating their own, they'd rather screw the public.
Get it notarized before hand.
Just one last kick in the nuts, then a final deathblow
Chicago Court Throwing Out LIDAR Speeding Tickets
This might help?...
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/11/10/187202/Chicago-Court-...
"Chicago Traffic Court Judges have been throwing out speeding cases in which the driver's speed was measured with a LIDAR. Judges are asking for a special 'Frye Hearing' to determine the accuracy of these devices. Many motorists nabbed for speeding by a laser gun, instead of radar, are seeing their tickets thrown out at Chicago's traffic court because of a legal issue that the city's law department has been unable to overcome. Within the past year judges in Cook County Traffic Court in Chicago determined that speeds captured by lidar were not admissible because the devices had not been proven scientifically reliable in an Illinois court, said Jennifer Hoyle, spokeswoman for the law department, which prosecutes most speeding tickets in the city."
Go to court.
Make them work for the money.
I thought this way too...
Until I read the fine print... If you go to court, you are gonna get stuck paying a lot, win or lose... They have fixed it so that you get stuck with the bill one way or another...
My advice below is really his best choice.
_________
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
Get a traffic attorney...
They are usually cheaper than the fine would be. I haven't gotten a ticket on my record since I started doing that. They know what to do and who to talk to, etc. You don't have to show up for court, you don't have to do driving school, in fact you don't have to do anything but pay them.
Considering the time, insurance increase, and cost of the ticket itself, the attorney is more than worth it. I have paid as little as $75 for an attorney and as much as $600 depending on circumstances but I have not had a ticket added to my record this way.
_________
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
You admit to going 80 in a
You admit to going 80 in a 65, so what is your basis for fighting it?
---
"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." -- General John Stark.
---
"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." -- General John Stark.
Glad to hear..
you were not tased, beaten, or shot by the occifer. If you think you have a good explanation for speeding....then go to court and state your case. If not...pay the fine and be more careful in the future. Good Luck.
Bad advice
Always fight the ticket to the end, even if you are "guilty" and cannot win on procedure. Your right to a trial is worth more than a speeding ticket fine.
Agreed! Not to mention the fact ....
if the officer cannot / does not show up, you may be let off on the technicality.
-I favor extending to Israel the same honest friendship that Jefferson and the Founding Fathers urged us to offer to all nations. ...This means I also favor discontinuing foreign aid to governments that are actual or potential enemies of Israel,--Ron Paul
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
See
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/112635
Get a new identity and flee the country TONIGHT
You are no doubt on a terror watch list now - lol!
So sorry. I DO hope you will challenge it creatively - we need to be pushing on every front. Keep us updated!
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
I wouldn't get creative in this situation, myself,
if I were you. Unless you don't mind paying more.
Plead Innocent on the Ticket and Mail it in -
They will send you a court date and go to court. In my experience, they ALWAYS cut a deal to a lesser charge on traffic tickets. I used to work for a couple of judges. I also recently had a speeding ticket, and that's exactly how it went. The prosecutor approached me before court began - they like things to go as quickly as possible, too. If they offer you one with no points, going to court will have been well worth it (although I found it very upsetting to have to go - but worth it!) Even if they offer you a lower speed infraction and lower points, you may save a lot of money. In my experience, you do not need a lawyer at all. In fact, IMHO, you will be better off without one. This is really a minimal infraction - fifteen over the speed limit. I will be shocked if they don't lower it to a parking fine! Good luck!
I did the exact same thing
Have them set a court date, show up, and then they'll cut you a deal. They just want some money from you and they know all you care about is your car insurance premiums will go up if you get points on your license. Good luck.
Trial by declaration?
A friend of mine has used this.
Basically you write a letter to the court.
Also get trial at the county seat, sometimes an inconvenience for the officer to show up.
This is UK related but hey
http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3604
Ask when the radar gun was last calibrated
I read this somewhere in researching these matters for that "just in case" event. Perhaps it was in the Marc Stevens films. I remember reading/hearing this. Whatever the source, it indicated that the odds are it has been a long time since the equipment was calibrated and if you ask the officer at the scene, it has been known to turn them away without even issuing a citation.
For future reference, in most cases I believe they want you to sign the "ticket" at the scene and you can say you do not wish to do so. You would need to research this so you get the wording precisely right, but the gist of it is, they then say that either you sign or they have to arrest you, so then you say OK, and sign "Under duress" before your signature.
three ideas
1) Do ask the police to show the (yearly where I live) speed measuring device calibration and testing report.
2) Confirm jurisdiction of the law enforcement agency.
3) (Where I live) the state dep't of transportation does speed studies on their roads. They typically put black rubber hoses across the road and measure density and speed. (Where I live) the rules say the dep't of transportation is required to set the speed limit to some percentile of the speeds (something like the 85th percentile).
In many cases, speed limit signs are set for political purposes and don't follow the rules. Thus many speeding tickets rely on invalid speed limit signs.
Call the state dep't of transportation (don't mention your ticket) and pleasantly ask when the last speed study was completed and if you can visit their offices to review the data. The posted speed limit may not be correct.
(Literally yesterday, I was talking to my sheriff and under-sheriff when the sheriff mentions the neighborhood where I live has artificially low speed limit signs and the city will lose in court, though it might need to go beyond the city to an appellate court. Law enforcement is aware of the problems AND CONTINUE TO WRITE SPEEDING TICKETS to please the mayor.)
http://FlipFlopRomney.blogspot.com
My suggestion is
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
first of all show up to court, if the cop is not there, the case will be dismissed. Secondly, if that is not the case, ask to talk to the cop and the prosecutor before your case is heard in the judges chambers. Tell the cop and the prosecutor that you will pay the fine but don't want any points for the violation. It works 99% of the time, because as you know, it is all about the money. Good luck!!!!!!
p.s.- I have done this with a state trooper and I got no points, easy peazy japaneazy!!!!!
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
Simple
You're going to be found guilty. Don't waste your time with the legal arguments. What you're looking for here is "mercy". When you "act" like a good little citizen and show the proper amount of contrition to feed their egos....you might get a reduced fine.
You're going to argue with a laser gun before a judge? Seriously, unless you can call into question a tiny pin-point laser beam and argue it didn't hit my car....the judge will laugh at you.
You've already told us you were speeding so don't lie when it comes your time in court.
You probably have 2 chances- 1 at the magisterial level....the other in the "real" court. If you don't win at the magisterial level....you might win or gain something at the real court.
Isn't there an option on the ticket for "Plead guilty but request a hearing"? I'd go for that one.
But....since you're going to be found guilty your fine might be reduced. Try the following;
(this assumes you were courteous to the officer....if you weren't then you're on your own)
1. At your "hearing" talk with the officer or prosecutor to see if you can work out a deal- like, lower points, lower fine, the judge not reporting the ruling to the state department of motor vehicles so your insurance company won't found out about your speeding and increase your insurance cost. You might phrase the words like this, "I plead guilty but would state consider lowering the fine or eliminating the points".
2. If the officer doesn't show up......that's sometimes a situation for the ticket being thrown out....but I wouldn't count on it.
3. Dress nice and conservative, be polite and don't act like belligerent.
4. You probably will be asked why you were speeding- tell 'em something like, "I was late for work..."
5. DO NOT try the sovereignty, no drivers license, no victim- no fine, argument.
6. Don't waste your time with the "I can't pay" argument. They have payment plans to suit everyone.
Good luck.
How far are you willing to take this...
"What you're looking for here is 'mercy'. When you 'act' like a good little citizen and show the proper amount of contrition to feed their egos..."
…?
When they impose curfews? When they tell you to give up your guns? When they tell you to get on their bus? When they tell you what to wear? When they tell you that you can't have a garden on your property? When they tell you that you can no longer carry cash and have to take a chip instead? When they tell you to roll up your sleeve and take a shot? When they tell you what religion to practice?
That is truly scary advice – for ANY scenario where a person is dealing with government on ANY matter.
Traffic tickets can be beaten. I have had several dismissed, with no pleas, and in one case even admitting guilt.
Here is advise that worked for me from a cop
Lets face it...It's not so much the fine but the points on the licence that haunt you for years in terms of higher insurance rates. If you can come to terms with the fact that all they want is your money then I suggest the following.
Plead innocent on the back of the ticket. Mark the box with the greatest extreme on it usually trail by jury. Forget the magistrate hearing that's a bunch of BS. Go for the gusto.
I did this and the during the court date the cop started of by pulling me aside and saying all I was going to do was piss the Judge off for "wasting his time" (hilarious huh?) He also said that I didn't bring a lawyer and that it would not be a good idea to go forward....I held my ground, the cop ran over to the prosecuter, Thats when the "good cop, bad cop" started. The cop said the prosecuter was prepared to argue the case. But wanted to understand what I was doing pushing it this far. I leveled with him and said look, if its the money you want I'll pay. (I was guilty) I let him know it was the points I wanted to avoid. He ran over to the prosecuter wispered in his ear and made me sit a while. 15-20 minutes later theprosecuter walked up to the bench, showed the judge a slip, handed it to the cop, the cop handed it to me and that was it. I had to say a few words to the judge but I got what I wanted...no points.
I did this on 3 occasions. and worked everytime. I have a perfect driving record.
They will not put you infront of a jury for a speeding ticket because they know 11/12 times they will lose....Everyone speeds
Good Luck
For Freedom!
For Freedom!
STUGOTS! To the high and felutent establishment!
Paultian Powerhouse!
You didn't tell the judge...
....everything the officer told you privately?
Yeah...it worked out to a plea deal
For Freedom!
For Freedom!
STUGOTS! To the high and felutent establishment!
Paultian Powerhouse!
Slow down?
Blessings )o(
Blessings )o(
Yes
Advise is a verb. It's the act of giving advice.
Advice is a noun. It's what you get when someone advises you.
Advice is the word you want to use in your heading.
New Hampshire and Ecuador
Try one of these
Say you had a case of the "runs" and were trying to get off the road rather quickly to find a restroom as so not to endanger other motorists if your were to explode in your pants.
Or get your speedometer calibrated by a friendly mechanic. Maybe that friendly mechanic will find that your speedometer is out of wack by 15-20 mph.
Tell them you had bees in your car and they were trying to sting you. oh no "BEES!!!"
Yea, I tried and failed...
This was in a DMV Hearing Room, as I got my ticket in the NYS DMV zone.
First question I asked was to the cop:
"Did you file a valid cause of action against me?"
He was bewildered and asked the judge for clarification before he answered. Then, the judge briefly explained and said that I'm not being tried for a crime, but for a violation.
So, then I switched over to the standing case.
I recited the part of the NYS Constitution and Declaration of independence that states that governments exist for the sole purpose of maintaining and establishing our rights.
I then went on to standing, and quoted Clifford S. vs. Superior Court that no case would be entertained in a court if standing didn't exist.
Know what his reply was?
It doesn't apply here.
I said, is this not a court?
He answered: "No, this is a hearing room."
I had no idea what to do from there, so I acquiesced. He recommended that I stick to the violation so I told him how I was pulled over when pacing the car in front of me, the car in front of me pulled over as well, but wasn't ticketed, then the court room started getting pissed that they were waiting so long for me so I wound up paying $180.
So, in my opinion, this will work in actual courts, but not in DMV hearing rooms. Unless I'm missing something (and I most likely am!).
Weren't you offered a trial?
?
Defend Liberty!