Austrianism vs Keynesianism – flaws of both theories

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Austrianism vs Keynesianism – flaws of both theories
by Whigswin

The difference in doctrine between Austrian and Keynesian economics is not clear to most people. However the main difference between both economic theories is their beliefs on supply and demand. Keynesian economists claim that the government can directly influence the demand for goods and services by altering tax policies and public expenditures.. Austrian economist are more on the supply side believing that the Price of a commodity determines the demand thus regulating the value of it's purchase. They believe that when the price of something is greater the demand for that product will be much lower. However others would argue that if the demand for a product were greater than the price of that product the price would also go up. I would also argue that if the supply of the product were greater than the demand because of the private or public regulated price than the price of that product or commodity could be made to be artificial. A good example of this is is the value of diamonds, which are more valuable when less of the supply is mined thus creating artificial scarcity. Diamonds are actually much more plentiful than their value suggests as they are barely even semiprecious stones. This contradicts the marginal utility theory ( that supposedly resolved the Diamond-water paradox) that assumes that since Diamonds are scarce they are much more valuable than bread or water which are essential for life. In actuality diamonds are much more plentiful than these economists observed and their value depends on artificial scarcity caused by mining less than is actually available.

The difference between 19th century Austrian economics, and the 20th century's Keynesian economics. Is mainly where their theories are drawn from. The opponents of Austrian economics are mostly history buffs. While Austrian economists, and the like, are more focused on monetary theory based on mathematics. History and mathematics are both very important factors for economists, but excluding one over the other is what creates flaws in both theories. While Austrian Equationites see an economy like a giant math equation of people products and commodities, Keynesian Historicists, on the other hand, base their theories more on past events rather than mathematics. So while Austrian economics is mostly based on the deduction based on numbers and variables, Keynesian economics is based on prediction of future events based on past events. The economic history that Keynesians use is only reliable when it is relevant to the times, but today we face a situation that is very different from history, although similar in some ways. Both views, thus, leave a huge gap in perspective on how to determine the value and sustainability of monetary systems by leaving out either the perspective of history or the perspective of mathematics out of their theories. So one could argue that since their perspectives on economics systems are narrowed that they are both holding half of what could create a truly be a prosperous economic system, which is the American system of competition between public and private systems.

.So as to show the flaws in this two party, capitalist, paradigm I have suggested that both systems are fundamentally flawed. I suggest that the the fight between 19th century and 20th century economic ideas is an old paradigm based on a debate of ideas that don't even begin to address a solution to current crisis. While Keynesian economics allows for some Government intervention such as spending on infrastructure and changing tax laws, Austrian economics has the belief that the state (government) should stay 100% out of the economy. This idea is based on the invisible hand theory, of the 18th century, that emphasized the role of individuals over that of the state and generally attacked mercantilism. .However claiming that this is an American system is fundamentally flawed when you consider George Washington's history ( http://american_almanac.tripod.com/earlyinf.htm#washington ) of dedicating himself to infrastructure projects as president as well as Article 1, section 8 of the constitution. Of course 100% government involvement in the economy is not an American system either, but when you consider the idea that American capitalism is based on competition you shouldn't assume that government cannot compete with the private sector.

If you assume that any form of competition with the private sector is “socialism” than you are denying the American tradition of competition. In addition we now have people in government that are inclined to subsidize nonwork over work that is valuable. To assume that this is the fault of government alone however is ignorant of the influence the market has on the the government. It is true that the government does pass laws that regulate the market occasionally, but it is also true that in past decades government has deregulated the market and laxed laws against usury as well as legalized derivatives. The subsidies given to these nonwork jobs in past decades have typically been given because the corporation claims that they will use the money to create more jobs. How it is spent though is typically making less jobs. This is mostly because the parts of the market that are subsidized create nothing of value for the market. Most of these corporations are speculative banks that hoard money, rather than lend money to industry, and media moguls that are all controlled by few corporations,.(Viacom and Disney being examples) Although these subsidies have been called a “spending plan”, today it is nothing of the sort. Because the money isn't being spent in places of value, but are rather being used to pay for CEO's vacation time or it is used to make do nothing jobs more valuable than jobs that would that would create higher employment. What should have been done was what Franklin Roosevelt did, which was the seizing of do nothing, bum, corporations under chapter 11 of the US code.This made FDR's spending plan much different than Herbert Hoover's unpopular subsidies (bail outs.) Using a chapter 11 to convert the parts of the market that has been called the “zombie banks” into something useful that creates jobs is something the US code demands. Although this is the opposite of what Obama has done because he has completely ignoring the possibility of a chapter 11. Many other bum corporations today would be eligible to be reformed under chapter 7 of the US code as well. Of course the seizing of these corporations by the government in FDR's Administration was only temporary and it only reformed the policies and spending of those corporations..To Free market economists though this is socialism and it goes against all their values. I would argue that since the seizure is only temporary it is not soccialism. I would also argue that it it gives people more jobs because industry would be converted for more modern uses (like maglev trains and tractors). Whether your for this or not, the point is that spending has to go to places that make jobs rather than places that take jobs and even spending has it's limits.

The only other alternative I see besides Industrial spending is "balancing the budget", which historically has caused a recession shortly afterward. Just look at this graph of what balancing the budget does.

http://wealthmoney.org/budget.html

Even a Digitized money system, as an alternative appears, to be fundamentally flawed. This is mainly because Digitized money would be predisposed to be regulated by a private party. It would also create an artificial “supply” and make demand (consumerism) oven more important to society. I would also argue that interest rates would be unpredictable by economists in a digitized money system. Interest rates in a digitized money system could be high or low depending on the choice of the private distributor. I think that this would be unethical and against the general welfare of the people. I also think tha congress would not be able to regulate digitized money. That may not matter though because congress does no currently regulate any of the money In the United states like it should

I hope this essay gives people an entirely new perspective on American capitalism as well as the two party paradigm of economics . (Austrianism vs Keynesiansism and capitalism vs marxism)

If anyone is interested in solution to the economic crisis I would suggest you read my previous articles for my take on solutions.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/104200

http://wizardofoswald.com/forum/world-economic-takeoever/a-h...

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Bad post. Nothing insightful here.

"The difference between 19th century Austrian economics, and the 20th century's Keynesian economics. Is mainly where their theories are drawn from. The opponents of Austrian economics are mostly history buffs. While Austrian economists, and the like, are more focused on monetary theory based on mathematics."

I don't believe this author knows anything about either school of thought. It's just a long, rambling pile of ignorance.

WTF?

The Austrian school is heavily based on mathematics? Nothing could be further from the truth. Everything is based on human action.

Horrible post.

-------
http://www.RebootTheRepublic.com

Agreed

please see my posts below. This guy is utterly ignorant.

I found this website today...

A foundation dedicated to the study of monetary history, theory and reform and they challenged the Austrian School of Economics and the Ludwig Von Mises Institute to debate on A REFUTATION OF MENGER'S THEORY OF THE ORIGIN OF MONEY. I am curious as to why they did not take the challenge. I agree with this foundation about the usury issue.
“.metals are "barren" - they have no powers of generation and any interest paid in them must originate from some other source or process.”
http://www.monetary.org/refute.htm

This essay was originally created for the Swiss Money Museum Web site (http://www.moneymuseum.org/) in mid 1999. It appears here thanks to the gracious permission of Dr. Jurg Conzett, creator of the Money Museum Web site.
Aristotle understood that money is sterile; it doesn’t beget more money the way cows beget more cows. He knew that "Money exists not by nature but by law":
http://www.monetary.org/interest.htm

Christ’s words "lend freely, hoping nothing thereby" (Luke 6:35).

Anti "Usury" Nonsense

Without interest, lenders would disappear. Without lenders, capital investment becomes difficult. Without capital investment, we return to the stone age.

A dollar today is irefutably worth more than a dollar a year from now. If not, please allow me to store your dollars for you for a year. I promise to give them all back.

Money certainly DOES beget money. When money is exchanged for capital rather than exchanged for consumption, it increases output which increases the purchasing power of money which means the same amount of money purchases more.

If Austrians are 19th century economists...

...they why are they winning Nobel prizes in the 20th century and gaining increasing popularity in the 21st century?

Whigswin, You are utterly ignorant of the Austrian School

1. NO economic school since 1800 believes price impacts demand. Price impacts QUANTITY demanded, not demand. Econ 101.

2. Diamonds are expensive due to their price. If you think that diamonds are plentiful then I strongly suggest you get into the diamond mining business and reap yourself a fortune!

3. You accuse Austrians of being mathematical. You are utterly wrong here. Austrians REJECT mathematical, statistical analysis or quantitative economics. They believe econ is a qualitative science.

4. You argue that Austrians are 19th century economists. Sorry, Austrians debunked the core belief of 19th century economists, replacing the intrinsic "labor theory of value" with the subjective and personal concept of "marginal utility" which underscores ALL 20th century economic schools of thought.

5. You consider the presence of government agencies in the market with private companies as "competition". I don't see how a market player with unlimited funding, no profit motive, a monopoly on coercion, and the power to regulate their competitors away as "competition". Preposterous.

Difference betwen Austrians and Keynes

What causes of recession:

Keynesians: underconsumption (falling demand) resulting from animal spirits

Supply Siders: Underproduction caused by tax/regulatory policy

Monetarists: Money supply shrank
Austrians: misallocated capital (factories, equipment, wells, infrastructure) caused by money printing

Theory of capital:

Keynesians/Monetarists/Supply Siders: Capital investment is homogenous and output neutral, capital is just a factor in an equation

Austrians: capital investment depends on time preference and price signals to be optimally allocated

Money:

Keynesians/Monetarists/Supply Siders: Inflation is neutral

Austrians: inflations warps price signals and time preference

Economic Policy:

Keynesians/Supply Siders: Offset recessions by supplementing demand or supply though fiscal spending or corporate welfare

Monetarists: Offset recessions by expanding the money supply

Austrians: Interventions increase the misallocations of capital. Allow the correction to run its course

Austrian economists are NOT supply siders. They believe in the

theory of human action based on marginal utility.

Visit http://mises.org if you want to understand Austrian economic theory.

Mr. Keynes,

a Fabian Socialist devised his ludicrous system so that the Banksters could have an system from which they could convince the herd that there is some useful theory behind their central banking scam.

The Author of this article appearantly knows next to nothing about the Austrian School.

For anyone to think that some perfect theory will be able to sum up 6 or 7 billion crazy humans making desicions all day long on which transactions they may or may not make is nonsense.

As I understand it

Austrian economists don't believe that the government has the fundamental right to manipulate the demand of goods and services because that would require inflation, taxation, and subsidy. Basically illegal and immoral seizure of property, application of state force and monopoly. Austrian economics is a logical part of true Libertarianism and natural law (non coercion, private property, free trade). If people are free, what would justify the ability to seize the product of their labor through monetary manipulation and therefore manipulate their peaceful interactions and their need to exchange goods that enrich both their lives?

The supposed gains from monetary manipulation are irrelevant to discuss based on this as it requires theft and coercion. If you choose to investigate further you find that it is also a terribly flawed economic theory based on ideas that have been discounted repeatedly over thousands of years.

"In the capitalist society there is a place and bread for all. Its ability to expand provides sustenance for every worker. Permanent unemployment is not a feature of free capitalism." - Mises - www.mises.org

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

Poor Analysis

The article starts of with an incorrect explanation of austrian theory---therefore the entire article is without merit.

There's no perfect theory

There's no perfect theory because there's no such thing as "perfect".

Our imperfections is what makes us human. However, the Austrian theory, while it still might have its imperfections, it is still far superior to Keynes voodoo theory...

We live in a planet that will always have imperfections. We need to understand that.

that article was a waste of

that article was a waste of bits.

Really?

No offense but I don't think you know anything about Austrian economics.

Disagree

Well I agree somewhat. The main difference is in their idea of capital.

Austrians believe that there is a limited amount of capital in society and that the only way to increase it is through savings and production. Actual time must go in to capital formation.

Keynesians, on the other hand, believe that money printing and fiat can substitute as real capital. Capital can be created and destroyed whenever need be. So, if there is a recession in a part of the market, just "print" money (which they think is the same as capital) to get that part of the economy functioning again.

An Austrian says that this doesn't work because the amount of capital is limited, so all that is really being done is a transference of purchasing power from A to B. In doing so, the market receives false economic signals thus creating a bubble and hindering sound capital investment in more beneficial sectors of the market - capital is actually seeing a net decrease under Keynesian policies where under a free-market capital sees a net increase.

That is really the main difference.