Measuring a War Gone to Hell
Submitted by Liberty_Belle on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 13:54Imagine for a moment, as you read this post, what might have happened if Americans had decided to sink the same sort of money – $228 billion and rising fast – the same “civilian surges,” the same planning, thought, and effort (but not the same staggering ineffectiveness) into reclaiming New Orleans or Detroit, or into planning an American future here at home. Imagine, for a moment, when you read about the multi-millions going into further construction at Bagram Air Base, or to the mercenary company that provides “Lord of the Flies” hire-a-gun guards for American diplomats in massive super-embassies, or about the half-a-billion dollars sunk into a corrupt and fraudulent Afghan election, what a similar investment in our own country might have meant.
Ask yourself: Wouldn’t the U.S. have been safer and more secure if all the money, effort, and planning had gone toward “nation-building” in America?
Costs
Annual funding for U.S. combat operations in Afghanistan, 2002: $20.8 billion.
Annual funding for U.S. combat operations in Afghanistan, 2009: $60.2 billion.
Total funds for U.S. combat operations in Afghanistan, 2002-2009: $228.2 billion.
War-fighting funds requested by the Obama administration for 2010: $68 billion (a figure which will, for the first time since 2003, exceed funds requested for Iraq).
Funds recently requested by U.S. Ambassador Karl Eikenberry for non-military spending in Afghanistan, 2010: $2.5 billion.
Funds spent since 2001 on Afghan “reconstruction”: $38 billion (”more than half of it on training and equipping Afghan security forces”).
Percentage of U.S. funding in Afghanistan that has gone for military purposes: Nearly 90 percent.
Estimated U.S. funds needed to support and upgrade Afghan forces for the next decade: $4 billion a year (”with a like sum for development”) according to former Assistant Secretary of Defense Bing West. (According to the Brookings Institution’s Michael O’Hanlon, “It’s a reasonable guess that for 20 years, we essentially will have to fund half the Afghan budget.”)
Afghan gross national product: $23 billion (“the size of Boise” Idaho’s, writes columnist George Will) – about $3 billion of it from opium production.
Annual budget of the Afghan government: $600 million.
Maintenance cost for the force of 450,000 Afghan soldiers and police U.S. generals dream of creating: approximately 500 percent of the Afghan budget.
Amount spent on police “mentoring and training” since 2001: $10 billion.
Percentage of the more than 400 Afghan National Police units “still incapable of running their operations independently”: 75 percent (2008 figures).
Cost of the latest upgrade of Bagram Air Base (an old Soviet base that has become the largest American base in Afghanistan): $220 million.
Cost of a single recent Pentagon contract to DynCorp International Inc. and Fluor Corporation “to build and support U.S. military bases throughout Afghanistan”: up to $15 billion.
full article:
http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/2009/09/08/measuring-...
bump
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sick, thanks for sharing. we need to start focusing on this again
Foreign Policy
With the ongoing debate on the current administration's intent to propel this nation into socialism, I sometimes think that foreign policy has been put on the back burner. That's a shame. After all, it was Ron Paul's blowback debate that introduced me to liberty and the dangers of not following the Constitution.
It's very odd indeed that the democrat party which in the past has been anti war, now overlooks Obama's campaign pledges to end the Iraq War. I remember that campaign commercial of his clearly where he states that the war in Iraq is a "dumb war." It seems the democrats were only opposed to Bush's war.
Thanks LB for posting this topic so important to me. The sheer amount of money being spent all over the globe for less than savory intent, and every fathomable justification, is immoral.
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"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson
Something like this
* article might help wake up some tea party people and maybe pull in some from the left.. .I would hope!!
****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Hey RealDeal !
* Unfortunately, I think the Military Industrial Complex has been deemed to big and too profitable to fail. This along with the American psyche which embraces the myth that we are "The Good Guys" and to speak the truth is considered unpatriotic allows us to continue on the path of Imperialism. We Americans as a whole have developed an "exceptionist" attitude and justify all kinds of horrors ...of course aided by lack of education, politics, religion and media !
I would love to form coalitions with the disenfrachised left on the anti- war issue...I think it is just as worthy an effort as trying to infiltrate the neocon GOP and may even be more productive!!
****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
The New War Party
You may be right about a disenfranchised left, but I have not seen any sign of it yet. Instead, I see all signs that the left is rapidly becoming blind to everything being done by Obama. They have overlooked and tried to justify every decision and broken promise made by Obama. If this continues, than I see the democrat party becoming the new war party.
I know you are right about the Military Industrial Complex. It now has its hooks stuck permanently in the leadership of both parties.
Great post, Belle!
"Imagine for a moment, as you read this post, what might have happened if Americans had decided to sink the same sort of money $228 billion and rising fast the same civilian surges, the same planning, thought, and effort (but not the same staggering ineffectiveness) into reclaiming New Orleans or Detroit, or into planning an American future here at home."
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It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
A Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy
Ron Paul is one of the very few that speak for a non-interventionist foreign policy! Our current foreign policy of illegal occupations.. which is, even under Obama, a continuation of the Bush policies.. is not only morally and constitionally wrong but is also directly tied to our dire economic situation.
I don't believe in redistribution of power or wealth at the point of a gun weather it be here at home or by meddling in the affairs of sovereign nations!
This is the main issue where the Ron Paul inspired movement meets with such animosity from the neocon GOP! I see the Antiwar Obama supporters must be having the same problem with the Democrat neoliberals that are now silent on the escalation of troops in Afghanistan!
Here is a good video of Ron Paul Slamming Republican Warmongers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhAokoMgSDc&feature=related
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Yes
"I see the Antiwar Obama supporters must be having the same problem with the Democrat neoliberals that are now silent on the escalation of troops in Afghanistan!"
I can only speak for myself, and YES I have a problem with that!
But, Belle, you asked us to imagine a different scenerio, which is what I was doing (with the help of Mr. Walsh, for I am not that eloquent a speaker).
Is there NO ONE else who can only imagine? Believing in a better way and imagining the possibilities is the first step in creating that reality and God help us if we can't.
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It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
And that crazy guy...
Ron Paul warned us about this-HE'S SO CRAZY!!!
What crazy guy?
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Actually
I would prefer that it not go into nation building anywhere as "nation building" as I understand it is a government institution. I'd rather the stolen money be returned to the people who are the creators and the owners.
"In the capitalist society there is a place and bread for all. Its ability to expand provides sustenance for every worker. Permanent unemployment is not a feature of free capitalism." - Mises - www.mises.org
"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com
So we can't even just
So we can't even just IMAGINE this reality? Our selfish attitude can not be suspended for even that long? How far must we fall from grace before we remember that the power of Love is all we need to bring the glory of heaven closer? Or do you prefer the hell that we've already created with our selfishness?
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It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Your scenario has already
Your scenario has already been imagined in great detail, Liberty Belle! Here is an exerpt from Conversations with God, by Neale Donald Walsh.
[We can well imagine] an end to all limitations and discriminations holding people back, whether in housing, in the workplace, in the political system, or in personal relationships. Your new world order would require no redistribution of wealth. It would produce, voluntarily and quite automatically, a redistribution of resources. All people would be offered a proper education,
for instance. All people would be offered opportunity to use that
education in the workplace, to follow careers which bring them joy. All people would be guaranteed access to health care whenever and however needed. All people would be guaranteed they won't starve to death or have to live without sufficient clothing or adequate shelter. All people would be granted the basic dignities of life so that survival would never again be the issue, so that simple comforts and basic dignities were provided all human beings.
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It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Well, Amerianna.. I am not imagining
a Utopian fantasy as described above because I am more of a realist! It is a nice thought or prayer.. as long as you are describing a voluntary agreement between indivduals, businesses and nations!
But as silentboom noted below..resources are not endless and a free market is necessary. I would prefer to not have the fruits of my labor stolen by a government that spends it unwisely and redistributes it as it sees fit. If I had my tax money in my pocket I would be more inclined to spend it on humanitarian causes ..helping more with basic living necessities and education for the poor.
****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
It's only a Utopian fantasy because we haven't chosen it yet!
And I agree that it would be best if it were a voluntary agreement. But I tell you this.. Unless we DO choose to share, either the choice will be made for us or we will end up with nothing. It is already beginning.
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It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Bump
More:
Even if they contribute nothing.
Survival with dignity is one of the basic rights of life. [God has] given you enough resources to be able to guarantee that to everyone. All you have to do is share.
What would stop people from simply wasting their lives?
First of all, it is not yours to judge what is a life wasted.
Is a life wasted if a person does nothing but lie around thinking of
poetry for 70 years, then comes up with a single sonnet which opens a door of understanding and insight for thousands of people?
[By not contributing, they would miss out on] the opportunity to create and the glory of experiencing the highest idea of Who They Really Are. And the contributors would know that this was punishment enough for their laziness, if indeed, punishment was required, which it is not.
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It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Bump for discussion
Even if they did NOTHING to earn it!
"WHAT?", you say!
Try to wrap your mind around this thought - People have a God given right to basic survival.
Your thought that these things need to be earned is the basis for your thought that you have to earn your way to heaven. Yet, you cannot earn yourway into Gods good graces, and you do not have to, because you are already
there! This is something you cannot accept, because it is something you cannot give.
When you learn to give unconditionally, then will you learn to receive unconditionally. This life was created as a vehicle through which you might
be allowed to experience that.
******************
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Any thoughts?
Don't hold back!
I'm a big girl - I can take it!
Lol!! :)
******************
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Well a huge topic like this requires it's own
thread, but I'll state that in order for resources to be divided up we must have a calculation system. This requires prices as resources are not unlimited. Money must be earned and should be based on commodities which require labor to produce. If you are arguing for wide open free market capitalism then I agree with you....if not then you can only mean communism which even under a system of truly unlimited resources would mean a virtual hell on earth.
"In the capitalist society there is a place and bread for all. Its ability to expand provides sustenance for every worker. Permanent unemployment is not a feature of free capitalism." - Mises - www.mises.org
"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com
I beg to differ!
"...you can only mean communism which even under a system of truly unlimited resources would mean a virtual hell on earth."
We ALREADY have a virtual hell on earth - do we not?
******************
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Bump for the night crowd.
Boy-howdy we'll have some fun now!
******************
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Let's talk.
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!