"An individual who is unable or unwilling to submit to vaccination or treatment shall not be required to submit to such procedures but may be isolated or quarantined pursuant to section 96"
To me this -- from the recent actual text posted below-- says that vaccinations are not forced, which is why Oruval calls me out. Oruval insists that they are still 'forced'. I maintain that there is a huge difference between forced vaccination & quarantine. I can even kinda sorta maybe iffy somewhat agree with a quarantine under certain conditions: 1) You stay in your own home 2) necessities are provided to you 3) a logical and fair mechanism to lift it 4) there is clear and certain evidence of public danger from the contagious and life threatening disease -- decision made by the medical community and not the politicians.
Perhaps most of us won't need a forced quarantine, we'll voluntarily stay home and live off of the supplies that we stockpiled for the economic crisis?
Submitted by jeff_1968 on Thu, 09/24/2009 - 08:23.
The last time I had the Flu, I had all I could do to get up from bed to go to the bathroom.
How the hell would I go out of the house?
I don't think I would need a cop to tell me to stay in bed, although it would be nice if they brought some hot soup and tea!
Just kidding.
Given that less people WORLD WIDE have died from the swine flu this year than the total of people that died from the regular flu in the USA alone last year, I don't see swine flu getting out of hand. Yes that is right, people die EVERY YEAR from the flu. This is just another way to destroy our constitution with fear mongering.
Seems like both hands (left and right) are using this tactic a lot lately.
Submitted by spacehabitats on Thu, 09/24/2009 - 09:38.
People become contagious very early in the disease when it would be difficult to distinguish H1N1 from the common cold.
The 150 viruses that cause the millions of upper respiratory viral illnesses in the U.S. each year don't disappear just because there is a scary new virus going around.
Heck, by the time someone's lab test comes back confirmed as H1N1 they are usually either dead or getting over the illness. What are you going to do, immediately quarantine anybody who sneezes?
So slowing the spread will rely on people VOLUNTARILY staying home from school or work if they get sick.
This bill seems to be the product of ignorant legislators being manipulated into undermining individual freedoms to combat a trumped up threat.
Sort of reminds you of the Patriot Act doesn't it?
****************************** An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
Submitted by meekandmild on Wed, 09/23/2009 - 17:04.
lock & load, is it time fore Revolution yet?
Declaration of Independence:
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
I got the following for the key word "vaccination":
PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT
TITLE XVI. PUBLIC HEALTH
CHAPTER 111. PUBLIC HEALTH
VACCINATION
Chapter 111: Section 181. Enforcement of vaccination of inhabitants of towns
Section 181. Boards of health, if in their opinion it is necessary for public health or safety, shall require and enforce the vaccination and revaccination of all the inhabitants of their towns, and shall provide them with the means of free vaccination. Whoever refuses or neglects to comply with such requirement shall forfeit five dollars.
OK, this is probably an old one! I'd like to see the new one, anybody know where to find it?
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache%3AvH1-HCj0Ka8J%3Aww...
lines 397
danger to the public health the commissioner or local public health authority may exercise the
following authority:
(1) to vaccinate or provide precautionary prophylaxis to individuals as protection against
communicable disease and to prevent the spread of communicable or possibly communicable
disease, provided that any vaccine to be administered must not be such as is reasonably likely to
lead to serious harm to the affected individual; and
(2) to treat individuals exposed to or infected with disease, provided that treatment must not be
such as is reasonably likely to lead to serious harm to the affected individual.
An individual who is unable or unwilling to submit to vaccination or treatment shall not be
required to submit to such procedures but may be isolated or quarantined pursuant to section 96
of chapter 111 if his or her refusal poses a serious danger to public health or results in
uncertainty whether he or she has been exposed to or is infected with a disease or condition that
poses a serious danger to public health, as determined by the commissioner, or a local public
health authority operating within its jurisdiction.
(c) Furthermore, when the commissioner or a local public health authority within its jurisdiction
determines that either or both of the following measures are necessary to prevent a serious
danger to the public health, the commissioner or local public health authority may exercise the
following authority:
(1) to decontaminate or cause to be decontaminated any individual; provided that
decontamination measures must be by the least restrictive means necessary to protect the public
health and must be such as are not reasonably likely to lead to serious harm to the affected
individual; and
(2) to perform physical examinations, tests, and specimen collection necessary to diagnose a
disease or condition and ascertain whether an individual presents a risk to public health.
lines 259-260
(b) The department shall establish a process to identify personnel in the Massachusetts system
for advance registration, which may include a requirement for photographic identification.
line 345
Section 95. (a) Whenever the commissioner, or a local public health authority within its
jurisdiction, determines that there is reasonable cause to believe that a disease or condition
dangerous to the public health exists or may exist or that there is an immediate risk of an
outbreak of such a disease or condition, and that certain measures are necessary to decrease or
eliminate the risk to public health, the commissioner or local public health authority may issue an
order. The order may be a verbal order in exigent circumstances, and in such case it shall be
followed by a written order as soon as reasonably possible. The written order shall specify the
reasons for it, and may include, but is not limited to:
(1) requiring the owner or occupier of premises to permit entry into and investigation of the
premises;
(2) requiring the owner or occupier of premises to close the premises or a specific part of the
premises, and allowing reopening of the premises when the danger has ended;
367
If a person does not comply with the order, and if the commissioner or the local public health
authority determines that non-compliance poses a serious danger to public health,upon request or
issuance of an order by the commissioner or local public health authority, an officer authorized
to serve criminal process may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable
cause to believe has violated such an order and shall use reasonable diligence to enforce such
order.
Frankly, I think people are more likely to become violent toward government employees trying to do something to their children than they would be if those government employees tried to do it only to them.
This is just the built in mechanism we have to preserve our offspring.
—
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence." Thomas H. Huxley
argue your ridiculous post over here. Cause it's apparent you're completely misinformed. Vaccinations would be forced if martial law is implemented in Massachusetts
Stop Ignoring the Obvious. Your position on thinking vaccinations aren't going to be forced is a ignorant point of view. You're ignoring it purposefully.
Judge said at 1:12 "now can they force adults to take the vaccination? No." I was confused about this and took it to mean that no, they still can't hold you down and do it. I'd like to see the statute. So I posed that question in the mentioned thread.
We have a similar statute in FL that people claim is forced vaccination, but it reads: "Ordering an individual to be examined, tested, vaccinated, treated, or quarantined for communicable diseases that have significant morbidity or mortality and present a severe danger to public health. Individuals who are unable or unwilling to be examined, tested, vaccinated, or treated for reasons of health, religion, or conscience may be subjected to quarantine. "
The thread switched to an argument as to whether a private business employer has the right to require vaccinations. My position is YES, they should be able to. Mr. O went ballistic with petty name calling and few logical rebuttals. As a libertarian, I stand by that opinion. Do you?
I didn't switch the subject. I responded to another poster, which raised the important topic of employers requiring vaccination -- a closely related topic, can you deny that?
The reason you're upset is because in that thread you were exposed to be the pseudo-libertarian that you evidently are. Of course, you're eager to end this debate!
Submitted by pseudonym on Wed, 09/23/2009 - 09:20.
And then what? It's not as if the government isn't OVER-prepared for rebellion. The government doesn't care if people revolt. If anything, the existence of riots will help them justify whatever they do. I think it's kind of childish to indulge in the idea that people still have the power to make the government "sorry" it tried something. That's not the kind of government we have, and it's peculiar that Judge Napolitano is pretending otherwise.
That being said, this whole interview could have done less fear-mongering and more educating about the exact contents of the bill. I agree that its provisions are unconstitutional. But people might watch this and think it's LIKELY they will have their doors kicked down and then be injected and/or dragged away from their children. But read the bill and see if that's likely. The bill states that citizens who are ordered into self-isolation must receive mandatory financial compensation for missed days at work. Why would they take such care about people's rights if they were planning on assaulting everyone wholesale?
I think everyone should read the bill and form their own conclusions about what's likely to happen.
Force vaccination on my child and the very least I would do is prosecute for the assault. Vaccination of my child without my consent can not be made legal, it is crime no matter what "laws" are passed.
Government seems to forget the facts. People have rights, government is granted privileges by the people to protect their rights. That contract is enforced by oath by every public servant. When a public servant violates their oath they must be removed from office and charged with their crimes.
--
Submitted by spacehabitats on Wed, 09/23/2009 - 07:59.
What if some of these "non-health care licensed" personnel accidentally got stuck by hypodermic needles?
In this day of AIDS and epidemic hepatitis, what kind of an idiot would invade someone's home and start stabbing people with needles?
That could be dangerous for the police and the civilian.
And political suicide for the establishment.
****************************** An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
Oruval (et al.?)
"An individual who is unable or unwilling to submit to vaccination or treatment shall not be required to submit to such procedures but may be isolated or quarantined pursuant to section 96"
To me this -- from the recent actual text posted below-- says that vaccinations are not forced, which is why Oruval calls me out. Oruval insists that they are still 'forced'. I maintain that there is a huge difference between forced vaccination & quarantine. I can even kinda sorta maybe iffy somewhat agree with a quarantine under certain conditions: 1) You stay in your own home 2) necessities are provided to you 3) a logical and fair mechanism to lift it 4) there is clear and certain evidence of public danger from the contagious and life threatening disease -- decision made by the medical community and not the politicians.
Perhaps most of us won't need a forced quarantine, we'll voluntarily stay home and live off of the supplies that we stockpiled for the economic crisis?
--------
Fossils Rock!
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
Is Quarrentine really necessary?
The last time I had the Flu, I had all I could do to get up from bed to go to the bathroom.
How the hell would I go out of the house?
I don't think I would need a cop to tell me to stay in bed, although it would be nice if they brought some hot soup and tea!
Just kidding.
Given that less people WORLD WIDE have died from the swine flu this year than the total of people that died from the regular flu in the USA alone last year, I don't see swine flu getting out of hand. Yes that is right, people die EVERY YEAR from the flu. This is just another way to destroy our constitution with fear mongering.
Seems like both hands (left and right) are using this tactic a lot lately.
No, quarantine for H1N1 is NOT necessary....
People become contagious very early in the disease when it would be difficult to distinguish H1N1 from the common cold.
The 150 viruses that cause the millions of upper respiratory viral illnesses in the U.S. each year don't disappear just because there is a scary new virus going around.
Heck, by the time someone's lab test comes back confirmed as H1N1 they are usually either dead or getting over the illness. What are you going to do, immediately quarantine anybody who sneezes?
So slowing the spread will rely on people VOLUNTARILY staying home from school or work if they get sick.
This bill seems to be the product of ignorant legislators being manipulated into undermining individual freedoms to combat a trumped up threat.
Sort of reminds you of the Patriot Act doesn't it?
******************************
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
Natural Law and Natural Rights
http://jim.com/rights.html
******************************
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."
Ammo and firearms sales increasing in MA?
lock & load, is it time fore Revolution yet?
Declaration of Independence:
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
I feel sorry for those made to enforce this....
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
Actual text of Mass statute...
Upon searching the Mass web site, http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/76-15.htm
I got the following for the key word "vaccination":
PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT
TITLE XVI. PUBLIC HEALTH
CHAPTER 111. PUBLIC HEALTH
VACCINATION
Chapter 111: Section 181. Enforcement of vaccination of inhabitants of towns
Section 181. Boards of health, if in their opinion it is necessary for public health or safety, shall require and enforce the vaccination and revaccination of all the inhabitants of their towns, and shall provide them with the means of free vaccination. Whoever refuses or neglects to comply with such requirement shall forfeit five dollars.
OK, this is probably an old one! I'd like to see the new one, anybody know where to find it?
--------
Fossils Rock!
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
wow, reading the actual bill is scary
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache%3AvH1-HCj0Ka8J%3Aww...
lines 397
danger to the public health the commissioner or local public health authority may exercise the
following authority:
(1) to vaccinate or provide precautionary prophylaxis to individuals as protection against
communicable disease and to prevent the spread of communicable or possibly communicable
disease, provided that any vaccine to be administered must not be such as is reasonably likely to
lead to serious harm to the affected individual; and
(2) to treat individuals exposed to or infected with disease, provided that treatment must not be
such as is reasonably likely to lead to serious harm to the affected individual.
An individual who is unable or unwilling to submit to vaccination or treatment shall not be
required to submit to such procedures but may be isolated or quarantined pursuant to section 96
of chapter 111 if his or her refusal poses a serious danger to public health or results in
uncertainty whether he or she has been exposed to or is infected with a disease or condition that
poses a serious danger to public health, as determined by the commissioner, or a local public
health authority operating within its jurisdiction.
(c) Furthermore, when the commissioner or a local public health authority within its jurisdiction
determines that either or both of the following measures are necessary to prevent a serious
danger to the public health, the commissioner or local public health authority may exercise the
following authority:
(1) to decontaminate or cause to be decontaminated any individual; provided that
decontamination measures must be by the least restrictive means necessary to protect the public
health and must be such as are not reasonably likely to lead to serious harm to the affected
individual; and
(2) to perform physical examinations, tests, and specimen collection necessary to diagnose a
disease or condition and ascertain whether an individual presents a risk to public health.
lines 259-260
(b) The department shall establish a process to identify personnel in the Massachusetts system
for advance registration, which may include a requirement for photographic identification.
line 345
Section 95. (a) Whenever the commissioner, or a local public health authority within its
jurisdiction, determines that there is reasonable cause to believe that a disease or condition
dangerous to the public health exists or may exist or that there is an immediate risk of an
outbreak of such a disease or condition, and that certain measures are necessary to decrease or
eliminate the risk to public health, the commissioner or local public health authority may issue an
order. The order may be a verbal order in exigent circumstances, and in such case it shall be
followed by a written order as soon as reasonably possible. The written order shall specify the
reasons for it, and may include, but is not limited to:
(1) requiring the owner or occupier of premises to permit entry into and investigation of the
premises;
(2) requiring the owner or occupier of premises to close the premises or a specific part of the
premises, and allowing reopening of the premises when the danger has ended;
367
If a person does not comply with the order, and if the commissioner or the local public health
authority determines that non-compliance poses a serious danger to public health,upon request or
issuance of an order by the commissioner or local public health authority, an officer authorized
to serve criminal process may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable
cause to believe has violated such an order and shall use reasonable diligence to enforce such
order.
If you are quarantined you WILL be vaccinated. Maybe orally !!!
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
Mandatory blood test in Texas for DWI proof.
Extraction or injection ? They will do what ever we let them do until we stop them.
00:59 - 1:20
I think this is where everyone is confused.
first he say the governor can grant police the right to force vaccinate then he says they can't vaccinate adults?
Anybody want to clear this up? Do they plan on coming in and vaccinating minors against family wishes?
Judge Nap. is right about the people revolting.
You might see a bear in the wild and get away, but do not
get between a bear cub and its mother.
Frankly, I think people are more likely to become violent toward government employees trying to do something to their children than they would be if those government employees tried to do it only to them.
This is just the built in mechanism we have to preserve our offspring.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence." Thomas H. Huxley
Incarseration or vaccination
it's still being forced against will if you refuse.
How is that confusing.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Bug Man.
argue your ridiculous post over here. Cause it's apparent you're completely misinformed. Vaccinations would be forced if martial law is implemented in Massachusetts
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
I know you read this
Stop Ignoring the Obvious. Your position on thinking vaccinations aren't going to be forced is a ignorant point of view. You're ignoring it purposefully.
Why are you doing that.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/108266
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Bugman
All I hear is crickets from you. I take that as having no rebuttal.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Gee, Mr. 'O'
How 'bout a little warning when you call me out in a different thread!
For those wondering why Mr O is calling me out, it's because of a thread I posted: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/108266
Judge said at 1:12 "now can they force adults to take the vaccination? No." I was confused about this and took it to mean that no, they still can't hold you down and do it. I'd like to see the statute. So I posed that question in the mentioned thread.
We have a similar statute in FL that people claim is forced vaccination, but it reads: "Ordering an individual to be examined, tested, vaccinated, treated, or quarantined for communicable diseases that have significant morbidity or mortality and present a severe danger to public health. Individuals who are unable or unwilling to be examined, tested, vaccinated, or treated for reasons of health, religion, or conscience may be subjected to quarantine. "
The thread switched to an argument as to whether a private business employer has the right to require vaccinations. My position is YES, they should be able to. Mr. O went ballistic with petty name calling and few logical rebuttals. As a libertarian, I stand by that opinion. Do you?
--------
Fossils Rock!
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
The information speaks for itself
You were questioning whether or not it would be forced vaccination or just quarantine.
Your position is one of asking a pointless question which already has an answer of yes it would be quarantine if refusal of vaccination.
That is Unconstitutional. That is Martial Law.
You switched the subject. You were called on it. It's pointless to further debate this.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/108311
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Wrong again O,
I didn't switch the subject. I responded to another poster, which raised the important topic of employers requiring vaccination -- a closely related topic, can you deny that?
The reason you're upset is because in that thread you were exposed to be the pseudo-libertarian that you evidently are. Of course, you're eager to end this debate!
--------
Fossils Rock!
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
The law is a direct assault on the person of every individual
living in Massachusetts.
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
I welcome all MA liberty lovers
I welcome all MA liberty lovers and DPers to New Hampshire.
www.freestateproject.org
I can't believe this law was even written.
It's about time some tyrants were killed to remind them all they are really servants.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ugh.
How does this stuff get past the moderators?
Freedom never would've existed if we only asked King to be fair
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
what?
Tyrants are not subject to capital punishment for murder and/or treason?
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
So the people will revolt.
And then what? It's not as if the government isn't OVER-prepared for rebellion. The government doesn't care if people revolt. If anything, the existence of riots will help them justify whatever they do. I think it's kind of childish to indulge in the idea that people still have the power to make the government "sorry" it tried something. That's not the kind of government we have, and it's peculiar that Judge Napolitano is pretending otherwise.
That being said, this whole interview could have done less fear-mongering and more educating about the exact contents of the bill. I agree that its provisions are unconstitutional. But people might watch this and think it's LIKELY they will have their doors kicked down and then be injected and/or dragged away from their children. But read the bill and see if that's likely. The bill states that citizens who are ordered into self-isolation must receive mandatory financial compensation for missed days at work. Why would they take such care about people's rights if they were planning on assaulting everyone wholesale?
I think everyone should read the bill and form their own conclusions about what's likely to happen.
I doesn't matter how nicely the violate your rights.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
I agree
My emphasis was on the likelihood of the worst-case scenario unfolding.
Forced vaccination is assault and can not be made legal
Force vaccination on my child and the very least I would do is prosecute for the assault. Vaccination of my child without my consent can not be made legal, it is crime no matter what "laws" are passed.
Government seems to forget the facts. People have rights, government is granted privileges by the people to protect their rights. That contract is enforced by oath by every public servant. When a public servant violates their oath they must be removed from office and charged with their crimes.
--
--
.
Welcome neptune to DP
keep up the fight
Senior Research Associate in the field of Child Development and Human Relations
Columbus, Platte Co. Nebraska
Just a thought...
What if some of these "non-health care licensed" personnel accidentally got stuck by hypodermic needles?
In this day of AIDS and epidemic hepatitis, what kind of an idiot would invade someone's home and start stabbing people with needles?
That could be dangerous for the police and the civilian.
And political suicide for the establishment.
******************************
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
Natural Law and Natural Rights
http://jim.com/rights.html
******************************
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."