F.B.I. at my door for using the term of "Lawful Money"!!
On 9-28-09 my husband decided to call his Aunt who works at X-Bank" in Kansas. We are looking into our monetary system and he had some questions, so he decided to call his Aunt that works for the banking system. When he had called he had asked what her position was within the bank. She had stated that she was a teller, but did other jobs within the bank. So my husband told her he was studying the Constitution and asked her if "Peoples State Bank" carried Lawful Money. She replied, that yes, every bank has to carry so much. My husband asked (to make sure she understood what he was asking) Do you know if there is a difference between Lawful Money and Federal Reserve Notes? He proceeded by stating that lawful money was made by the government and Federal Reserve Notes are made by the Federal Reserve which is a private corporation.
She had suddenly gotten busy and said that she needed to get off the phone. So he asked if he could come by and ask more questions. She replied stating that she would rather he did not. He asked if he could meet her outside of the bank if she wanted. She responded saying to the effect that she wanted to keep her business and personal life separate and would rather they not meet.
... Within hours after the phone call we had a Sheriff's Officer in uniform and a plain clothed F.B.I. Agent show at the front door. I went to get my husband who almost didn't come to the door because he thought I was joking with him, the officers introduced themselves and asked if he had called and talked with a bank earlier in the day. My husband asked, why? And the Officers proceeded to explaining that the words used in the phone call are "RED Flagged" by the F.B.I. The F.B.I. Officer says sir, you’re looking at me a little funny, and my husband said, you’re giving me a funny feeling. The F.B.I. agent then says that he only wants to know what his intentions were.
At that point, my husband asked, did I do anything wrong? Did I break any laws? Am I in any trouble? The agent said NO, and my husband said "good bye" and we walked back in the house.
Our research as of late on Individual Sovereignty is seeming more and more to help assert our Constitutional Rights. I have posted this story because; calling a bank and asking questions should not result in the F.B.I. showing up at my front door.
I am wondering what others think of this situation and if them coming to my door for asking questions of our banking system. Has this happened anywhere else?
Money Laundering?
I suspect that the combination of terms "lawful" and "money" might have been red-flagged because of the draconian money laundering statutes. A friend of mine who managed a credit union was telling me yesterday that they are not even allowed to discuss any number of issues over the phone and in the abstract because it might subject them to criminal liability for money laundering.
The standards for such liability are, apparently, incredibly broad and vague, and so bank workers are rightly taught to be severely circumspect in discussing such matters over the phone, lest they be imprisoned.
Alternately, asking them to meet you outside might have been the problem...
Great Response
Did I break any law? Am I guilty of a crime? Good Bye - How sweet - what a gr8 response. Good job.
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Is the messenger being
Is the messenger being attacked here?
Seems to me the FBI was knocking at the wrong door. They should be investigating the bank frauds, mortgage frauds, foreclosure frauds, bogus money frauds - you know - protecting the victims instead of the criminals....
psst-charliegirl- you should prolly take the contact info out
lest any grief that befalls the certain bank be attributed to you. You are likely within your rights to post it, but who knows what repercussions it may ultimately bring. : )
Grief? Don't let them intimidate you either!
I have taken the womans name from the post, but I firmly believe the name of the bank and the name of the pres. should stay how are we able to find the truth without holding those involved accountable. I should feel NO FEAR when it comes to the government, or the system!
What kind of person would I be if I kept this kind of potentially very important behavior to myself?
I am not given an edit button for the info to be taken from the comment.
I will say that I do give my permission to omit that prev. info in the previous comment.
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Have some class
If not for yourself, for the rest of us. You obviously don't care about your husband's aunt and her job. And you are OK with any random person from the internet calling her boss and harrassing him about the suspicious behavior of his employee's nephew that resulted in an FBI visit. I'm sure that's going over great at work for her, let alone her emotional distress caused by your NONSENSE. You don't care who you hurt just so you can "prove" your little pet theory to the internet. What is your damage?
If I was his uncle, I would never talk to him again and I would make sure everyone in the family knows that you two have gone off the deep end. I hope your friends know not to trust you. You are behaving like a child
You have taken this post completly out of context!
I have been trying to be as coordial to you as I possibly can here. I am no longer going to address any of your personal attacks any longer. I had questions and thought I had a safe place to go to get them answered. You have turned this into something much different than ever intended.
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the truth hurts
And you were never attacked, your lack of regard for another human being is what was addressed. What did you think, people were going to rally around you and carry you off the field like you just won the Superbowl?
You sacrificed your family to show off on the internet.
No no- im just saying that any calls that go to the bank
may reflect poorly on your aunt as the bank clearly knows that the phonecalls are coming from connections of an employees nephew/ niece. I wouldnt put it past some bored troll to rain on Ron Paul's parade by calling some bank the week he launched "End the Fed". It wouldnt grow legs, and Ron Paul could take the hit with minimal damage- but the concern is that you could be seen as guilty by association if one of our trolls decided to make poo.
When you say it like that it does make more sense...
For the good Dr.'s Name.... Done
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Sounds like a prudent suggestion.
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
if CID, FBI, Treasury, or
if CID, FBI, Treasury, or anyone come to your door to intimidate you, by the way if they really want to intimidate you, they will send a lot of people, ask them for a case number.
I applaud your efforts, you stood up to them and held your ground, if more people did this, they would lose their fake power they have.
I do everything in writing, write the bank of a detailed situation, let them know you still have questions and ask them in your writings. Plus you can share your writings with others and get more perspectives.
I do a fair amount of data practices requests (freedom of information act) super easy to do and you get a LOT of information!!
Great job, keep it up.
No offense.. but this
No offense.. but this doesn't sound very realistic. How exactly did the FBI know where to go to after the call was made? How did they know the address? Did your husband confirm all his account info prior to asking about 'lawful money'?
There are close to a half million pages on Google that discuss 'lawful money'. I'd be hard pressed to find that the FBI only visited one person who asked a bank about it and not inquire about the other 1/2 million or so people who have discussed it on the interwebs.
Did you happen to get any of this conversation or visit on video? If not, why not? Why would anyone embark upon a controversial journey without having any sort of video evidence?
"Sir, do have a warrant ?"
"No? Then good day." The door shuts.
The willful making of a false statement to a federal officer is a criminal offense. See: 18 USC, Sec. 1001.
Absent a lawful warrant, I recognize no duty to open my door to an investigation or to answer questions, with or without a warrant, which may tend to incriminate me or to provide a link in a chain of evidence that may result in criminal prosecution or liability.
I do agree that flagging the use of such a phrase for obvious intimidation, on the part of the U.S. government, is absurd.
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
I found this @ Investopedia:
What Does Lawful Money Mean?
Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System, including gold and silver coins, Treasury notes, and Treasury bonds. Lawful money stands in contrast to fiat money, to which the government assigns value although it has no intrinsic value of its own and is not backed by reserves. Fiat money includes legal tender such as paper money, checks, drafts and bank notes.
Also known as "specie", which means "in actual form."
Investopedia explains Lawful Money
Oddly enough, the dollar bills that we carry around in our wallets are not considered lawful money. The notation on the bottom of a U.S. dollar bill reads "Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private", and is issued by the U.S. Federal Reserve, not the U.S. Treasury. Legal tender can be exchanged for an equivalent amount of lawful money, but effects such as inflation can change the value of fiat money. Lawful money is said to be the most direct form of ownership, but for purposes of practicality it has little use in direct transactions between parties anymore.
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Wonder what they will be givin' people who request "lawful money" after they run out of gold, then silver? More notes that arent worth the paper they are written on , but made with govt printing presses and not federal ones?...interesting.
My guess is that you dont walk into the bank and request
lawful money, you rather say "can you give me 5 Eagles at today's rate and a $200 10 yr bond." Youll walk out with lawful money, but like debit cards, not all businesses are required to take your gold. So its lawful but not convenient or practical for daily use. But its definitely good to have as a means of storing your wealth when they finally admit the death of the dollar.
Or is the FBI monortoring phone calls
to from from banks? Maybe the right conditions are in order for a bank run? And the FBI is trying to protect the Feds interest.
Would you please remove
the bank information from your post? If someone wants to ask a bank about "lawful money", they can ask any bank.
By targeting this bank, you are putting your aunt's job at risk.
Defend Liberty!
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Good advice.
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I do not want to risk the womans job
I do give permission to omit her personal info from my comment, I have just tried myself and apparently not smart enough to edit my own comment, cant figure it out.
My only intentions were to be able validate the story.
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charliegirl: You did a great job, maybe too great
for an introduction.. I'm no moderator or expert, but I believe you can click on the edit icon and make your own corrections.
Good luck
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It is possible that
the aunt did not call the FBI. She might have started asking the questions he asked around the building there and someone else might have run with that ball.
was it red flagged
because of asking about money on site or asking about lawful money...was the FBI called or surveillance
I am going to assume
It was because he either used "Lawful Money" or the term "Federal Reserve Notes" I have no idea if called or surveillanced for sure, I did work for a bank myself at one time and know that "red flagging" is part of the education given to tellers. I have no doubt in my mind by the way she had acted so distant all of the sudden, given she was so excited to see him in the store just a few weeks ago, that she had made the call. I am wondering if this has been done nationally by all banks? If the F.B.I. have issued "red flag" warnings on certain words used within the banking system. AND... what other words are being "red flagged"?
The biggest Q I have in all of this is: Is this even Constitutional?
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What would it take
to convince you there were other things in your phone call besides the use of the terms "lawful money" and "federal reserve notes" that were legitimate red flags?
Defend Liberty!
Forgive my naivete on "Lawful Money"- wouldnt know it
if I saw it. If someone asked me if I knew what it was, Id say; "Gold" ? But apparently each bank is required to have some. Is it a note that the govt prints? If so, how does one acquire "lawful money" from a bank for themselves? Is it recognized at Applebee's?
See!! those kind of questions come up!
We are just trying to find out as well!
That is what I have heard as well, that each bank is required to have some and the teller acknowledged that, So, why would you not call a relative that you know that currently works for the banking system to find out?
If this whole "lawful money" thing is true, then why is it so hard to acquire, and if the bank is supposed to give you lawful money when requested correctly, then why is it red flagged? Why doesn't everyone know about this? Why wouldn't we all try to get "real" money out of our banking system and put it into circulation to help build the value of the dollar back up?
We were actually trying to find the validity to it all, and to me... after having agents at my door, tells me I'm on to something big. Maybe this really has some merit to it? Are more folks inquiring about the FED and the government is just getting scared and using intimidation? These are just a few of the many questions that I have and the real reason I started this post.
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okay i understand now
Maybe we can search around on the net and see what can be found about "lawful money" and how to get it. It may very well be a deal where the bank gives you the bum's rush unless you show up with a notarized request and a copy of the statute or whatever that claims you are entitled to it. Wonder what the exchange rate is? Is it like another name for a silver certificate or something- you've piqued my curiosity charliegirl lol
Just Google "title 12 usc § 411"
Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the
Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of
making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal
reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose,
are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United
States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and
Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public
dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the
Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of
Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/12/3/XII/411
I got 656,000 results for
title 12 usc § 411
From our own research you are supposed to be able to sign the back of a check in this way:
Redeemed in lawful money
pursuant to title 12 U.S.C § 411
Supposedly if you put this on the back of a check you are cashing at a bank they are obligated by law to redeem in lawful money
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interesting
Id think theyd just say "okay- how would you like it, in gold?" and then youd be purchasing some gold. Can they tax it or add a service fee , I wonder? They shouldnt. If you can get a $100 bill changed for 1 fifty and 5 tens, you should be able to get $2000.00 worth of todays market gold for $2,000.00