Is H.R. 1207 Constitutional?
Submitted by Galileo on Sat, 10/03/2009 - 13:41
Is H.R. 1207 Constitutional?
A week ago, I got my head chopped off, because I lent support to H.R. 992, with shouts of "unconstitutional".
But what about H.R. 1207? If the Fed is unconstitutional, then using taxpayer money for an audit would be unconstitutional.
Right?
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self edit
never mind.
"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul
Why would anyone waste their time
Trying to answer an inane question?
It's a valid question
It's a valid question that deserves an explanation, and that's why I offered my analysis below.
Why would you waste your time posting two comments which basically attacked Galileo's inquiry?
The Fed is a corporate entity. It exists at the behest of its
creator, the state, and operates with the immunities provided by the state and in accordance with its charter granted by the state. It therefore differs from an individual in that an individual is not a creation of the state. An individual owes no such allegiance to the state because the individual receives nothing from the state, beyond the protection of his life and property. The rights of an individual are such as existed long antecedent to the organization of the state and can only be taken from him by the due process of law. An individual has no duty to reveal his business to anyone or to open his door to participate in an investigation to the extent that it may tend to incriminate him. A corporate entity has no such right. It is a child of the state and cannot refuse to exhibit its books and records at the demand of the state (by "state" I mean "government").
See: Hale :vs: Henkel 201 U.S. 43 (pgs. 74 and 75)
"Conceding that the witness was an officer of the corporation under investigation, and that he was entitled to assert the rights of corporation with respect to the production of its books and papers, we are of the opinion that there is a clear distinction in this particular between an individual and a corporation, and that the latter has no right to refuse to submit its books and papers for an examination at the suit of the State. The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no duty to the State or to his neighbors to divulge his business, or to open his doors to an investigation, so far as it may tend to criminate him. He owes no such duty to the State, since he receives nothing therefrom beyond the protection of his life and property. His rights are such as existed by the law of the land long antecedent to the organization of the State, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are a refusal to incriminate himself and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under a warrant of the law. He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights.
Upon the other hand, the corporation is a creature of the State. It is presumed to be incorporated for the benefit of the public. It receives certain special privileges and franchises, and holds them subject to the laws of the State and the limitations of its charter. Its powers are limited by law. It can make no contract not authorized by its charter. Its rights to act as a corporation are only preserved to it so long as it obeys the laws of its creation. There is a reserved right in the legislature to investigate its contracts and find out whether it has exceeded its powers. It would be a strange anomaly to hold that a State, having chartered a corporation to make use of certain franchises, could not, in the exercise of its sovereignty, inquire how these franchises had been employed, and whether they had been abused, and demand the production of the corporate books and papers for that purpose. The defense amounts to this: that an officer of a corporation which is charged with a criminal violation of the statute may plead the criminality of such corporation as a refusal to produce its books. To state this proposition is to answer it. While an individual may lawfully refuse to answer incriminating questions unless protected by an immunity statute, it does not follow that a corporation, vested with special privileges and franchises, may refuse to show its hand when charged with an abuse of such privileges.
It is true that the corporation in this case was chartered under the laws of New Jersey, and that it receives its franchise from the legislature of that State; but such franchises, so far as they involve questions of interstate commerce, must also be exercised in subordination to the power of Congress to regulate such commerce, and, in respect to this, the General Government may also assert a sovereign authority to ascertain whether such franchises have been exercised in a lawful manner, with a due regard to its own laws. Being subject to this dual sovereignty, the General Government possesses the same right to see that its own laws are respected as the State would have with respect to the special franchises vested in it by the laws of the State. The powers of the General Government in this particular in the vindication of its own laws are the same as if the corporation had been created by an act of Congress. It is not intended to intimate, however, that it has a general visitatorial power over the State corporations."
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"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
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"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
I don't think so
I thought about this issue myself. However, H.R. 1207 has a destabilizing effect on the Fed. In other words, its purpose is to weaken some of the Fed's power (i.e., its secrecy) and bring that power (or the opposite thereof, namely, oversight) back where it belongs (Congress). So even if it's not perfect (like ending the Fed), its goal is in the direction of undoing unconstitutionality.
Wrong
And very illogical.