Have you heard of the Fair Tax plan?
The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal
income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a
progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American
pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level,
dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion
legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.
The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes
all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital
gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and
self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible,
federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state
sales tax authorities.
The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or
services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient,
transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity
of our current tax system.
The FairTax:
Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
Allows American products to compete fairly
Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
Abolishes the IRS
More here:
http://www.fairtax.org/
I learned about the fair tax plan, right before I learned...
The Ron Paul "No tax plan". Neither of which are a viable solution as the powers that be are not in the biz of relinquishing power, only garnering it. Fair tax or no tax takes their power away, and they will fight for their power like we will fight for our freedom.
In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
~Mark Twain
Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, and set those BRUSH FIRES everywhere you go and in all you do!
True
Secede!!
So really arguing between the two is pointless. Either would be so much better than now.
Okay, I'll be the one to say it.
NO "tax plan" is going to help, unless spending grinds to a halt.
"Finding a way" to finance all the abuses and waste and criminal activity that this government is doing, is NOT the answer.
However, "finding a way" to make sure that they don't have enough money to fund all the crap they want, and putting a tight lid on further debt, CAN be of some use.
The real way out is to DE-FUND the beast, not to find ways to keep it running unimpeded.
While many well-intentioned people search for a "better" tax plan to fund the spending, the real answer is to prevent them from getting the money to spend. The only way they will stop is if they cannot get the money from anywhere.
no taxes
I think no taxes and no federal government is the better position.
I think user *katherine* is one of our newest NEO-CON members
To h%ll with the FAIR TAX bull crap.
Debra Medina for Texas Governor 2010!
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Ron Paul 2012, Join or Die!
DONT TREAD ON ME
AN APPEAL TO HEAVEN - WASHINGTON'S CRUISERS
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RESTORE AMERICA NOW
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My thoughts too.
I've happened to notice there's a close relationship between a DPer being a neo-con and their user name. If someone uses a real name, or something close to their name, the posts that they write generally are neo-con, Beck and Bagger content posts. The "more faithful" like to keep a certain amount of anonymity in life and that manifests itself in user names that have no relation to a real name.
That really isn't necessary.
Can people not have an honest disagreement about tax policy without one of them being labeled a neo-con?
I have a fellow Libertarian who supports the Fair Tax in my state party. He and I of course disagree. He asked me for a point for point rebuttal because he was curious why if I opposed the Status Quo so much that I don't support at least attempting the FairTax. He isn't a neo-con. He's a Libertarian. He just sees things differently.
Can Katherine and the others not be similar?
I hold no ill-will against any of them, and I enjoyed the exchanges. That's the best effort I've ever seen anyone put forth on the issue.
I see no need to get personal and call people names over it.
we are getting a lot of
we are getting a lot of curious 9/12ers. Its nothing we didnt see at the beginning of the campaign in 07, when we were all in the same boat. We need to set a good example and be less condescending. We should, however, be condescending to the neo-con politicians.
Ventura 2012
fair tax is a terrible plan.
fair tax is a terrible plan. we'll end up in the same boat we crashed in the iceberg. abolish the irs and replace it with nothing.
Sam
Why is this such a pet issue for your to debunk? I have never seen anyone so enthusiastic, even wanting to set up a debunk site just for FairTax. Wow. You really, really have a thing against FairTax!! Everything you say, I want to correct, so I gave up on you because you are endless with your arguing against this. You really have something at stake here. Good luck with your agenda.
Don't take it personally.
And why does my responding prevent you from attempting to correct me? Are you uncomfortable not being able to say something if the person you correct has an honest disagreement? I don't understand that.
Yes, I will continue to try to get others to understand what I am saying on any issue. I stand by my positions until someone either proves them wrong, or shows me a new light to see the issue in that I hadn't thought of before.
I had put this on the back burner long ago because I thought the issue was politically dead. I guess it isn't and I'm going to have to make that full rebuttal a friend asked for on the policy and doing it in the form of a website isn't a bad idea. (I'm a free-lance web designer anyway)
The only thing I have at stake is ending up with another mess based on misunderstandings of the powers of Congress to lay taxes. I don't like the present system at all. And I have other ideas on how to fix that. To me, the FairTax will not only not accomplish its goals and end up a net negative policy, but it will make real tax reform impossible in my lifetime. It fails to address the taxing authority of Congress and instead confounds it further.
I guess where this tax plan is concerned, we just won't agree. Not anytime soon at least. And I wish you well too.
Another tax and the others will remain as well
TAXES ARE NOT FAIR AND SHOULD BE LOCAL.
The UN can not tax us and neither should Uncle Sam. I pay enough at the local level to fund the UNiverse and the Star Trek Federation already.
22 billion for Obama's helicopters would go a long way toward fuel for the Star Ship Enterprise to protect us from the Clig-ons.
The only CLIG-ONs are in the IRS clinging on to my pay checks.
.
.
.
Debra Medina for Texas Governor 2010!
Rand Paul for US Senate in Kentucky!
Ron Paul 2012, Join or Die!
DONT TREAD ON ME
AN APPEAL TO HEAVEN - WASHINGTON'S CRUISERS
Ron Paul / Rand Paul ...The Taxpayers' Best Friends!
RESTORE AMERICA NOW
AN APPEAL TO HEAVEN - Washington's Cruisers
http://www3.villanova.edu/centennial/js1g.htm
Leave Us Alone and Bring the Troops Home
once again
this is important. The Fair Tax is a joke. The joke's on anyone who thinks this tax plan will solve the problem.
What, the government is going to formulate some magical tax formula that will vaporize deficit spending?
Do you believe the Fair Tax will reduce the size and scope of the federal government?
They keep us running around like dogs chasing our tails, anything to distract us from reality.
END THE FED ! Make the government operate on current tax revenue. Problem solved, no more senseless war, no more banker bailout, no more cash for clunker, no more "no child left behind", and on and on.
It makes no difference how taxes are collected people, the government doesn't operate on tax revenue. Taxes are nothing more than the elites way of throwing us dogs a bone every once in a while.
Miamisburg, Montgomery County, Ohio
booooooooooooooo!
I will not compromise. I want no taxes at all
I think this might be a
I think this might be a little bit better than a flat income tax, but I'm not sure if its "better" enough to go through all the bureaucratic bs to institute it.
Ventura 2012
Not Taxes. Screw the Government.
I don't think I ever heard Ron Paul say he favored the FT.
He favors corporate taxes and exise taxes.
These I favor.
The FT is the Republican Tax Scheme i.e. Huckabuck!
***********Ron Paul for POTUS 2012***********
*************Obama Is A Communist!************
**********Repeal the 17th Amendment**********
Double the size of the House of Representatives
$$$$$$$$$AUDIT THE FEDERAL RESERVE$$$$$$$$$$
***********Ron Paul for POTUS 2012***********
*************Obama Is A Communist!************
**********Repeal the 17th Amendment**********
Double the size of the House of Representatives
$$$$$$$$$AUDIT THE FEDERAL RESERVE$$$$$$$$$$
didn't Ron Paul say he
didn't Ron Paul say he favored this fair tax over the current sytem but would much prefere no tax at all?
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Yes
You have a better memory than some on here, or else you present your ideas more fairly.
Yes, I think you're right on this one, b_k.
The Fair Tax plan could be used as a stepping stone towards Ron Paul's plan.
*******************
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Thanks for the link,
Thanks for the link, Katherine. A very interesting read!
*******************
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
Not much good said here about the FT,
but since it supposedly abolishes the IRS, it's certainly better than the system we have now, and certainly more likely to happen than simply abolishing taxes outright like we all would love. So, IMHO, it's certainly worthy of debate, and not deserving the trashing that you're getting here on it kat...
--------
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
Will there be no need for a tax collector with the "Fair Tax"?
Look at how the various sales taxes now collected by the states are collected. They are overseen by the State collector of revenue. They have enforcement agents. They do audits. And people do go to jail or are fined abusively for failure to do what the tax collector says he should have done.
And to boot, they enlist the forced labor of a countless number of business men to make them extract and account for taxes on each transaction. And is there evasion of sales taxes; of course there is, every chance anyone gets.
It is foolish to think that the oppression goes away just because you change the name or place of the plunder.
And just think of what will happen to business. Say you buy a car now. When do you pay the sales tax? The answer is up front, whether you finance it or pay cash, so if we switch to a "fair tax" you will pay that tax up front when you buy a car also. Imagine paying an extra 30% to the government when you buy your new car. Under the income tax, when do you pay the tax? When you get your paycheck, so if you finance a car, you do not pay the tax on the money used to buy the car until you earn it in the future. So effectively, the fair tax accelerates your tax payments; no wonder it is liked by government officials and you collectivist who advocate it.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence." Thomas H. Huxley
Just because it abolishes the current agency called the
IRS to me is not enough justification to accept all else that is wrong with it.
The basic idea is flawed and I don't agree with it even if you could eliminate and satisfy every procedural objection I have to it.
For starters, I don't want to give Congress a new power of taxation. That alone outweighs the elimination of the IRS. (which will simply be re-incarnated under other names in the bill)
And the plan is so flawed, it does deserve serious scrutiny. Should we not point out its flaws? Are we to just accept it wholesale without question?
Do NOT abolish the IRS??
Your are NOT in favor of getting RID of the most powerful agency in the Government?? The IRS is the ONLY agency that can levy undeserved taxes on you and TAKE YOUR MONEY!!
Have you ever had a "cash audit" done on you??
I personally know of a few who have. The IRS agents examine your house and then if they think you under-reported your income according to your lifestyle,, WILL LEVY ADDITIONAL TAXES ON YOU !!
For me this is a KEY provision of the bill.
Currently the IRS code is THE main way the Feds use to force THEIR idea of social engineering on the public.
How will the IRS be "re-incarnated" under the new bill??
Details please,,,
Here's a little something else to chew on...
Used items that are allegedly exempted DO NOT include items that are CURRENTLY used. That is, an item is considered used, and therefore exempt IF and ONLY IF, the tax has ALREADY been paid on it. That means that all current items in the market as of the effective date of the act by their nature of the act not having been in existence to impose the tax in the past, are NOT USED. So Goodwill, Salvation Army, Garage Sales, etc. must collect and remit sales taxes on anything manufactured and sold before the effective date of the act if it is resold.
And here is a bigger kicker. The tax is not just a "sales" tax but also a "use" tax. So since none of these goods are heretofore taxed since there was no bill, then all of them are NOT considered "used" and therefore not exempt, and that the tax is AT ONCE owed on the USE of those items!!!
Upon passage of this bill, you will have to self asses and remit the tax on everything you own since by definition it hasn't had the tax paid on it, and so is not "used" and is not "exempt."
HAHAHAHAHA! Oh this is just too much...
Taxing yourself
This is NOT TRUE!!
Think abou it,,
Under The Fair Tax these goods WOULD have been taxed under the previous tax system (embeded taxes). So they WOULD qualify as "Used items" and NOT be subject to The Fair Tax. There is nothing like this that I could find in the bill.
Fair Tax
is an oxymoron if ever I heard one. It is absolutely impossible for any government to take from one person and give to another, that should not be the function of government. That goes both ways...left/right...welfare/warfare...socialist/fascist. It should be evident to all that any such system is corrupt beyond repair.
Miamisburg, Montgomery County, Ohio
Fair tax is NOT Fair.
I'm posting this again since most didn't read it.
The Flat Tax Is Not Flat and the FairTax Is Not Fair
On October 7th, 2009 RS says:
Here's what it's all about.
Thanks, to Mises.org
http://mises.org/story/3389
Eliminate
Eliminate the federal personal income tax entirely. Keep the corporate income tax. Slash the size and scope of government to constitutional limits. End the world empire. End the Fed. Restore sound money. Pay off the debt. Buy out Social Security and Medicare and end them. Live in peace and prosperity.
Common sense bump.
Too bad it is so rare in Washington, DC.
-I favor extending to Israel the same honest friendship that Jefferson and the Founding Fathers urged us to offer to all nations. ...This means I also favor discontinuing foreign aid to governments that are actual or potential enemies of Israel,--Ron Paul
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer