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American Flags Banned At Apartment Complex

I'm pretty laid back, but this really ground my gears. This is what "political correctness" brings upon nations. I'm actually quite pissed off at the moment, which is very unlike me. Where's the COMPLETE OUTRAGE?

http://www.katu.com/news/local/64059697.html

It begins:

ALBANY, Ore. - At the Oaks Apartments in Albany, the management can fly their own flag advertising one and two bedroom apartments - but residents have been told they can't fly any flags at all.

Jim Clausen flies the American flag from the back of his motorcycle. He has a son in the military heading back to Iraq, and the flag - he said - is his way of showing support.

"This flag stands for all those people," said Clausen, an Oaks Apartment resident. "It stands for the people that can no longer stand - who died in wars. That's why I fly this flag."

But to Oaks Apartment management, Clausen said, the American flag symbolizes problems.

He was told to remove the red, white and blue from both of his rides, or face eviction.

"It floored me," he said. "I can't believe she was saying what she was saying."

Even long-time residents like Sharron White, who has flown a flag on her car for eight years, has been told to take it down.

White said management told her that "someone might get offended."

Continue:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/64059697.html

UPDATE: The ban was lifted. More info here - http://www.katu.com/news/local/64262707.html




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SteveMT's picture

Even Fox News Covers Lifting of the Flag Ban! It's official.

American Flag Ban at Oregon Apartment Complex Reversed After Outcry
Thursday, October 15, 2009

An Oregon apartment complex reversed its ban prohibiting residents from flying American flags from dwellings and parked vehicles after the property manager decided she didn't have the legal standing to do so, KATU in Portland reported Wednesday.

The American Civil Liberties Union said that Barb Holcomb's ban at Oaks Apartments did not violate any laws, but Holcomb said her legal cousel led her to believe otherwise so she reversed the decision.

"If people want to fly any flag of any nationality, it's their right," she told KATU. "When a tenant rents the unit, the inside of the unit belongs to the tenant. All automobiles and things attached to the automobiles are the personal property of the tenant."

More:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,566740,00.html?loomia_ow...

They are power mongers

I just called the apartment complex and they said it is a long standing policy that they are now enforcing. They say they are banning ALL flags, not just the American flag.
I went through the same thing at the apartments where I used to live. Their rule was "nothing political", including flags and banners.but people had their cute little hope and change yard signs, and no one complained about the huge RON PAUL sign I put in the window of my van at night.

The people at the Oaks are way over the top trying to regulate what people can put on their vehicles. I guess they would also kick you out if you had a starts and stripes ball cap, or neckerchief, or pin, or a Garth Brooks Cowboy shirt, Or maybe a single star would be enough, like a Dallas Cowboys ball cap. What if you posted a civic flag? I wonder if they make special allowances for gestapo vehicles.

I Hope they catch holy hell from the tenants over this.
I hope every dp'r will call them and give them the what-for.

The number is: (541) 967-1284.
Give 'em hell folks...

In LIBERTY!!

Live free or DIE!

According to an update to the article, the ban was lifted.

I agree that even if they had rules regarding flags on the outside of apartments and yard signs, telling people they couldn't have things like this on their vehicles was over the top.

Note to Joe Danger- You might want to update the OP about the ban being lifted. Also, in the update line at the top of the article, there is a link to more details.

With the sting Jack on my

With the sting Jack on my lips and the mini keys of the blackberry under my fingers, I would just like to say that I am glad the unlawful ban was lifted. A property owner can make any rules for their place that they deem fit. I however do not have to agree with them, or like them. Cheers!,
_____________________________________________
"You are a den of Vipers.I intend to rout you out and by the Eternal God I will rout you out."

.uǝʞɐɥs puɐ uʍop ǝpısdn pǝuɹnʇ ǝq oʇ spǝǝu pǝɟ ǝɥʇ
http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

JoeDanger, you chose an appropriate description of yourself.

You are a "danger" to freedom.

First of all this was private property so the owner should be able to exercise his property rights and do what the hell he wants as far as flying flags.

But the issue is much deeper and involves your own mind and malformed personality.

When we are infants, we do not know where we leave off and others begin, so we think the entire world we experience is part of us. The process of developing a personality, is really the process of understanding the distinction between ourselves and the rest of the world. The identity crisis of teenage years is where we either become independent or identify ourselves as some part of the the outside world. Most people fail to become independent, thus identifying themselves as part of some group. You, JoeDanger, have failed to form your independent personality and instead think of yourself as an American, identified by the flag Americans fly, and of course you are threatened by those who do not see themselves as part of the same collective as you.

My assessment is that you belong more on the couch of a shrink that posting your demented, distorted drivel on a site that discusses liberty. Archie Bunker, maybe.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

"When a tenant rents the

"When a tenant rents the unit, the inside of the unit belongs to the tenant," Holcomb said Wednesday. "All automobiles and things attached to the automobiles are the personal property of the tenant."

:-)

Thanks for calling me a danger to freedom, having "a malformed personality", and that I post "demented, distorted drivel". I didn't like the fact that someone was trying to impose their anti-american sentiment on another. And for that I got flamed by you. I do consider myself an American, and I fight for traditional American values. Does that bother you? I also consider myself an Earthling. Do some more name-calling and temper tantrum throwing over that one, buddy.

You may have been here longer than me, maybe posted more too, but as far as I'm concerned, you suck. What civilized person talks to someone that way? You should accept that other people have different outlooks than you, and quit with the name-calling and flaming. In other words, grow up. Your acting out towards me leads me to worry that you may be one of the few "supporters" who end up hurting the movement in the long run, with your intolerance and hateful rage and venom directed towards anyone who doesn't tow whatever "your" idea of the party line is.

Now go take your meds.
_____________________________________________
"You are a den of Vipers.I intend to rout you out and by the Eternal God I will rout you out."

.uǝʞɐɥs puɐ uʍop ǝpısdn pǝuɹnʇ ǝq oʇ spǝǝu pǝɟ ǝɥʇ
http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

. ___________________________

.

_____________________________________________
"You are a den of Vipers.I intend to rout you out and by the Eternal God I will rout you out."

.uǝʞɐɥs puɐ uʍop ǝpısdn pǝuɹnʇ ǝq oʇ spǝǝu pǝɟ ǝɥʇ
http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

In light of vally6's post

In light of vally6's post below... :-)))...Even though this wasn't my fight, I feel a little twinge of victory. I'm going out for a whiskey ;-)

_____________________________________________
"You are a den of Vipers.I intend to rout you out and by the Eternal God I will rout you out."

.uǝʞɐɥs puɐ uʍop ǝpısdn pǝuɹnʇ ǝq oʇ spǝǝu pǝɟ ǝɥʇ
http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

The flag indicates JURISDICTION!

See the post waaaay down below describing the gold fringe. While this is true, the flag with 50 stars is in fact the flag of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (all CAPS corporation/legal fiction, not the land). When you fly the flag, in the law's eyes, you are indicating federal jurisdiction. This is probably why the bldg owner didn't want the flags. Want the swine flu vaccine? Get an american flag tattoo! You legally won't be able to say "NO!" because you have chosen to indicate to the world that your body is a federal vessel. Don't believe me? Look, our entire admiralty/maritime legal system is based on the law of the seas that is hundreds of years old, and really hasn't changed much. Why? Because new laws are based on, and refer back to, older laws. One system built on another, and another, and another. Here's how it works. When these lands were colonized, the people brought with them British Common Law, or the law of the land. This legal system basically says everyone is free to do as they please, as long as they don't infringe on the rights of another. If someone's rights are violated (i.e. they can prove damages), they can bring the violator before a common-law court for adjudication. This is the level of the pyramid just above the base, and supports the rest of the system. The base is actually contract law, which pretty much says what you put your hand to do, that you shall do. If you sign a document, you can be legally bound to it, even if that document gives up one of your common-law rights (right to travel, right to bear arms, habeas corpus, etc). This is the legal system that these lands were founded upon, and still operate under to this day.

Unfortunately, just about ALL courts in this country today are admiralty/maritime/equity courts, or the law of the seas. This area of law is sometimes referred to as statute law. Common law supercedes statute law, but contract law is above common law. Here's how it works. From the law's perspective, actions speak louder than words. When your parents signed their marriage license, they contracted with the state to go on a commercial venture to produce an heir (son/daughter) and agreed to pledge that being as chattel property of the state upon delivery (think hospital delivery room). Now back about 400 years or so, ships would contract with the state to go on commercial ventures to distant places and return months or years later with large quantities of goods and/or slaves to be sold for profit in the local economy. Now the tax collectors needed some way to account for the regular MANIFESTATION of these items for the lords of the land, so every ship was required to produce their MANIFEST, or the list of cargo they were unloading at port. That is what the birth (or BERTH) certificate represents. Ships travel through CANALS, mothers have birth CANALS. Ships sit in their BERTH, mothers give BIRTH (they changed a letter to fool you). Mom is announcing the cargo to be used for profit in the local economy as a result of the commercial venture agreed upon under the marriage license. Back in the day, ships that went on these commercial ventures had to have some type of insurance policy against disaster on the high seas. Insurance is actually a very old practice, and insurance companies grew out of the need to insure cargo traveling long distances over the high seas. What if the ship wrecked and the cargo was lost? What if they were carrying gold or diamonds? How would you mitigate that large of a risk? Insurance. Do we insure our cargo? You bet! Ever hear of Social Security (or Social Insurance)? When the child gets old enough, do they not work for the system for profit? Up until 70-80 years ago, was it not commonplace for the children to support their parents in their old age? Do you see how the law can view the production of an heir as a commercial venture for profit, and want their cut in the form of taxation and registration fees (for marriage/birth certs)? This is actually at the heart of the gay marriage issue that they won't tell you about. Why would the state, a for-profit corporation, agree to a commercial venture between two individuals of the same sex??? That's like gambling money on a guaranteed loss. No child can result from a same sex union, therefore it would be stupid for the state to agree to it, unless they feel the need to give in just to keep the real reason secret.

What was done to the law is more evident with regard to motor vehicles. When you register your automobile, it then legally fits the definition of MOTOR VEHICLE and can be regulated by the state, because you are declaring it's use for financial gain. Until such time, Is there a law requiring you to register your private property with the state? Only if you are using this property directly for financial gain in their system (taxi driver, semi truck, tow truck, rental car, etc). Next, you take your registration and get license plates. The license plate is like the flag on the ship (or commercial vessel). When ships came into port, the flag they were flying indicated the laws that the ship and her crew would abide by. Pirates on the high seas were given letters of marque and reprisal by the state which basically said that the local gov't gives permission to loot and plunder ships flying a certain flag. Your license plate is the flag on your commercial vessel, which indicates to the police (who have been given permission in the form of a letter of marque and reprisal by the state) that they may legally plunder (by pulling you over and issuing tickets, seizing cargo, etc) any such craft bearing one of their flags on the seas of commerce (doesn't matter what state). BUT WAIT! You still have to get insurance before the state will allow you to go on your commercial venture, so you have to insure your motor vehicle, just like the old days of the British East India Trading Co. See, the state only has jurisdiction over commercial activity, and actually can't even see you, the living being, until you agree to contract with them! However, do you think the state is going to object to you contracting with them and giving them car and license registration fees, taxes, and violation ticket revenue?? On the contrary! They have a vested interest in you NOT knowing this information! That's why you aren't taught this in THEIR schools (even private schools are their schools b/c they are corporations registered with the state). This is also part of the whole home-school issue. The gov't wants indoctrination using their curriculum and their teachers.

QUESTION: How can they change the base of the pyramid when they're almost to the top??
ANSWER: They can't. And therein lies your salvation, should you choose to accept it.

The fact of the matter is, it is completely, totally lawful to have a common-law marriage without license, have a child without registering him/her, not get them a driver's license, SS#, voter's registration, etc, and that child can live on these lands completely and totally 100% free of gov't tyranny, because they will then be a step above the all-CAPS corporation masquerading as our gov't. That child could travel around in any car they wished and not have to worry about any statutory regulations such as seatbelt requirements, speed laws, DUI's, etc. because police would not have jurisdiction over the body since it was not pledged as state property at birth. You can actually do this as well, but you have to sever all these contracts with the state (driv. lic., birth cert., marriage lic., voter reg., vehicle reg, etc.). These are the ONLY things that give the gov't authority over YOU! Once you do this, you can charge, say 10 oz of .999 pure fine gold per hour of detention, and if a police officer arrests you for smoking pot in public, you can invoice the state and will be paid for a violation of your rights b/c you haven't signed your rights away for the privilege of being governed. How will it be paid? Every public official has a public hazard bond in place as an insurance policy against improper behavior. See, police officers are commercial ventures as well. If they screw up, they need insurance so they won't personally be held liable when acting as an agent for the state. Therefore, their bonding agency will pay YOU for your claim, and the OFFICER will be OUT OF A JOB because he will no longer be insurable (because he broke his oath of office and no one will take the risk after that).

"People should not be afraid of their government. The government should be afraid of the people." - V

The founding fathers set the people up as the sovereigns of the land. Do you know what that means? You are the KING and kings issue commands to their servants. They don't request or apply or register or seek permission from ANYONE for ANYTHING WHATSOEVER! But, as king, you have the right to choose to contract with anyone you see fit, including fictional corporations known as THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. By doing so, you gave them the authority to act on your behalf as THEY see fit. You said "I don't want to rule, you guys handle it. I'll just help you out by working for you all my life." Well, at least that's how the system perceives it. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, don't you think? Well, only if you're the system.

Until everyone realizes that all the problems we face today are because we keep signing our common-law rights away to contract with this private foreign corporation known as THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA that is literally sucking the life-blood out of the people, we will never be free. Actions speak louder than words. As Neo so appropriately puts it in the Matrix, "The problem is choice." YOU ARE BEING TWO-FACED!! STOP BITCHING ABOUT GOV'T TYRANNY AND AT THE SAME TIME SIGNING YOUR RIGHTS AWAY BY CONTRACTING WITH THEM! START LEARNING HOW TO DISSOLVE THESE CONTRACTS YOU SIGNED BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!

This will get you started:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7040453665540929835

Religion

People worship things and attribute all kinds of power to it. That is why some are obsessed with fringe on a flag. They think the flag is magical. They think law is magical.

Law is the boot and the gun. It is what is enforced. If you are curious about what law is being enforced today, where you live, in your federal circuit etc...then go to law school.

"That child could travel around in any car they wished and not have to worry about any statutory regulations such as seatbelt requirements, speed laws, DUI's, etc." until a policeman arrested the child, a prosecutor brought charges, a judge ruled that there is jurisdiction, the child is found guilty and appeals are handily and readily dismissed.

Flag Ban has been Lifted

ALBANY, Ore. -- Flags are OK again at an Albany apartment complex after the property manager reviewed the policy and decided she didn't have the legal standing to ban flags from the exteriors of apartments and vehicles parked at the complex...
http://www.katu.com/news/local/64262707.html

NJ

The one thing reaffirmed,

The one thing reaffirmed, that others have stated here before, is that the property owner has the right to ban all, or none, but can not give special status to any. Even upon an individuals vehicle if stated in the lease(contract) agreement. This is why it is of utmost importance to read thoroughly all documents you are asked to sign. They are all binding contracts that if you believe in the natural law you can not wiggle out of, no matter how harmful. To do otherwise makes that person a hypocrite.

MOVE!

I just moved out of an HOA controlled condo. The rental agreement was huge and included no flags, BBQ's, large plants on your deck, how many people could visit in your dwelling and for how long, where you parked, etc., etc. Their "property" and their rules. The rent was high and the BS deep so I moved. Problem solved.

move.

i agree.

you vote with your feet (and ur FRNs).

Too bad

Too bad all the people mentioned in the story were flying the flag to show their support of the War in Iraq, as if it meant that was how they loved and supported their country.

There's plenty of other ways they can do that, like making their own flag that says I Support All Unconstitutional Wars My Country Starts, Right or Wrong. I Support the War on Terror and I Hate All Muslims Without Question. I Will even Proudly Send my own Son over there to Kill and be Killed.

Leave the USA flag out of it; it's been hijacked by warmongers. Gadsden flags are A-ok!

He should

just paint his rides like the flag! He can put what he wants on his own property (his ride) That doesn't belong to the Apt. owner. Good grief some people might find the color of your car offensive. Too bad.

I would just triple your rent.

You and your ugly car would eventually go away.

Really?

So if I live in an apartment building I can paint a big sign on my van that says "F%^k the [enter name of ethnic group]" and that is okay? The property owner has no right to put limits on my speech activity on HIS property? I disagree and the law disagrees.

Hasn't the American Flag been hijacked by the NeoCons anyway?



I always hate seeing people driving around with American Flags on their pickup trucks, and American Flags placed all around town buildings, on street corner, placed out in front of politicians (who also wear these silly Flag pins all the time ... supposedly to prove their "patriotism").

Why?

Because most of these people are either brazenly pro-War, pro-Violence, pro-Global-Militarism, pro-Empire, pro-WorldPolicemen, pro-Corporatism, pro-NAFTA, pro-TaxCutsForTheRich, pro-CorporateWelfare, and against the separation of Church and State, or, they unwittingly vote for and support the people who clearly are.

The American Flag has been hijacked and misused to promote Warfare, Fascism, Elitism, Global slaughter, and American rule by violence -- while the U.S. Treasury is looted by the International Banking Elites and the Corporations, and our Country is hollowed out and converted into a debt-ridden, poverty-stricken bannana republic.

Nationalism is a form a fascism and exceptionalism anyway.

We don't need "Flags", we need to instead carry around The U.S. Bill of Rights and read what it says.

Then maybe people will realize that America is a farce and fraud, and we have no reason to be waving around Flags in celebration (of our own slavery).

Yes it has.

Yes it has.

Welcome to the club

The Stars and Bars lost its meaning in the 50' s thru today as it was hijacked by racists.

The Star Spangled lost its meaning when it began to symbolize wars of aggression and the citizens complacency with that.

Time to move beyond flags. Everyone has to grow up sometime.

The battle flag of the Army

The battle flag of the Army of Virginia was seized during Reconstruction by racists when the Democrats turned from Anti-Federalism to Marxism, but never the Stars and Bars(the first national flag of the CSA) http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/83/4483-004-A28E7...

This is a non-story

Non-story. The apartment complex owners retain the right the property. Not the renters. Unless this action is explicitly prohibited by the contract, there's no issue here.

Don't like it? Vote with your feet.

It's too bad the OP didn't complete a comprehensive analysis of property rights.

Why is this on the front page?

This story just stirs up the false, cheap sentimentalist patriot crowd like the tea baggers.

DP is about real patriotism. Meaning not symbol.

Made an a$$ out of...just me

When I saw the link to this post over there on the right, I ass-u-med the issue would involve the hanging of the flag somewhere on the apartment building itself. I've seen similar things (not specifically flags, but they would count, I'm sure) in the leases I've signed in the past, and like it or not, if you put your John Hancock to a contract like that, then you need to honor it.

But on your vehicle? Nope. Sorry. That's crap.
_________________________
Moobi

"In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." -- Thomas Jefferson

I agree MoobiI

That is like telling you what kind of bumper stickers you can have,what to wear, or what kind of car you can drive. It is not a prison it is an apartment complex where you pay to live and park your vehicle. If the flag was on the complex property it is one thing but on his vehicle is another.
It is not hindering anyone view or a permanent fixture and does not reflect the beliefs of the complex owner. Outrageous.

No it's not.

Some HOAs disallow political stickers (on cars) and yard signs. The prospective homeowner in the association has to sign a *CONTRACT* agreeing to these terms. Similarly, some lease agreements forbid certain items from being displayed by the tenants. What's more, some apartment complexes require you to put a decal on your vehicle.

If the homeowner (or renter) freely enters into contract, they are bound by its stipulations.

Fair Housing Law

Notice: "But to Oaks Apartment management, Clausen said, the American flag symbolizes problems." It is the tenant that said this not the apt mgmt.

Without knowing the whole story, the real story may be more complicated.
Any of you familiar with Fair Housing law? This law states that anyone renting an apartment has to be treated the same. Suppose a gang member lives in the apartment and puts up a flag. If the apt mgmt wants to ban that flag, it has to ban all flags. If not, he can say "Why do you let a (race) man fly a flag, but you don't let a (minority) man fly his flag?"

If the apartment is going to give a favor/ privilege to one person, it has to give it to EVERY ONE. If it waives a late fee for October's rent to one person, it better waive late fee for anyone paying late in October.

Move.

Move. Big baby. You rent someone else's property instead of owning it, you sacrifice some rights. Who doesn't know that? Live with it or move. Buy your own house and fly flags all over it. Rent office space and start a flag store that only sells American flags. Have American flags tatooed all over your face. But do it on your own dime and on your own property. And quit crying.

And, by the way, flying the flag doesn't "support" the troops. It supports the slime that profit from war and use false patriotism to squelch dissent.