people are the same. They have the same basic needs to provide for their famililies. People are basically good, with the exception of our power hungry overlords.
Any religion or faith, have writings in their sacred books, which are not good. "An eye for and eye", or the idea that your religion is better than someone elses, or to spread the message by the sword if necessary. You can justify any hurtful crime by looking at specific sentences in anyone's "bible, torah, koran".
The good people, will exemplify the good passages of their holy book, by deeds which honor those passages.
What is good and what is evil?
Good does not cause harm to others, Evil does, it is that simple.
We all know what is right in our hearts, the task is to follow our hearts.
This is a great testament to a man who is with God.
at the beginning of the 3rd millenium it is the islamics who are now scapegoats, ironically it is the scapegoats of the last century who are most profusely scapegoating islam........
last centuries scapegoats are feverishly telling anyone who will listen that there is a clash between civilisations ( ostensibly between islam and Christianity )
the cold brutal truth is that indeed there is a clash of civilsations but it is between judaism and Christianity
judaism is merely using islam as a ploy to destabilize Christendom
On 15 October 2009, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert came to give the annual King Abdullah II Leadership Lecture at the University of Chicago's Harris School of Public Policy. Outraged that a man responsible for war crimes in Palestine and Lebanon that killed more than three thousand people during his term of office, community members confronted Olmert inside the lecture hall effectively preventing him from delivering his speech. The Goldstone report, examining Israel's attack on Gaza last winter, while Olmert was prime minister, called for Israeli leaders to be held accountable for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Recording and photography were officially banned at Olmert's request, but The Electronic Intifada had a camera anyway as protestor after protestor rose to make a statement before police forced them to leave. Watch this exclusive video.
Submitted by Liberty_Belle on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 21:35.
This was good! Let him speak when he is at the International Court of Justice being prosecuted for War Crimes!!
*****************
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
—
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
I was myself heavily involved with the Muslim community a couple of decades ago. Like with any other group, there are good and bad individuals. No one individual can adequately express the character of the whole group. Hell, there are a few on the daily paul who I think reflect badly on us, although overall I think you're a bunch of great people!
"Hell, there are a few on the daily paul who I think reflect badly on us, although overall I think you're a bunch of great people!"
i'm not muslim.
—
The slogan press on has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. No person was ever honored for what he received. Honor has been the reward for what he gave.
the shop owner held the gun on the robber while he made him recite a Muslim prayer?
--------
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
that's something the mainstream media would do - twist the story... though they didn't in this case.
—
The slogan press on has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. No person was ever honored for what he received. Honor has been the reward for what he gave.
Submitted by bad_karma on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 03:47.
sure it is..... no its not.. that is the goodness of one mans heart.. for every 1 of these I can find you way more this is Christian, or this is no religion at all.. RELIGION is the problem.. God looks at a mans heart.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
—
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Submitted by ShineTheLight on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 07:33.
is no the problem. The problem is a persons heart. Each person is disposed in a certain way. That is the problem. Especially in today's world of broken families. Once upon a time someone said, "Religion is the problem." Now it is a trite non-truth.
Let me 1st saw I do not support the wars in the middle east we should not be there, but I have seen both sides of Islam and read the horror stories of those who escaped Sharia law.
A large parentage of Islam is the rotten half of the apple sadly, the good are the smaller piece of the pie. I think the numbers shift against the bad apples more and more every year but I am afraid the cart is not quite half good yet.
This is just one of many many examples of the norm.
Submitted by bad_karma on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 03:57.
that is also true with Christianity..
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
—
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Have been true of Christianity a VERY long time ago but is no longer true. Name me one country dominated by a Christian regime where non Christians are are beat and murdered for their beliefs openly.
I am sorry but this is like saying a kid is like a mass murderer because he killed a bug. In fact Id go further and say you are entirely wrong the only time Christians would end a life was in self defense, If you do otherwise your not a Christian.
Islam and the Koran is a Subject I have done a great deal of reading on for many years, not just the Koran either, but news from various countries and the life stories of many who fled Islam to save their lives or the lives of their loved ones.
Most people do not even know there are 2 Korans, one the is for the eyes of non Muslims and one for Muslims. Guess which one anyone who argues the case of Islam has seen?
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
—
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Submitted by Thundercloud on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 04:33.
The United States.
Save for the one qualifier of "doing it openly".
We run them through the judicial system first. Put them in prison, and do it there.
No argument of defense removing a clause at a whim. Why not just remove killing someone from the definition of murder.
Openly means it is accepted, its not a trivial thing as you portray it. So you are wrong. Kill anyone no matter what their beliefs or actions here and you will suffer for your crime. There is a long list of countries that not worshiping Allah will met you such punishment.
Oh and one more thing, America has not been a country controlled by Christians for a LONG time now.
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
—
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Submitted by Thundercloud on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 04:48.
Put a man in jail for practicing something he believe is right.
Put other men, other supposedly moral Christian men with badges, in charge. They treat the fist man like an animal.
It's actually worse than doing it in public. Because it means we have written it into our law, to allow it.
how can you compare the occasional corrupt non Christian claiming to be a Christian abusing his authority to a Nation or True believers killing beating and enslaving all who do not fit their mold?
How can you even begin to weigh one against the other then even go as far as to claim the lesser is in fact worse then the greater crime. What kind of backwards logic is that?
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
—
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Submitted by Thundercloud on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 05:05.
Yes, I am. Relatively.
Do you think Prison guards go to church? Or profess to be Christian?
Do you think there are non-violent offenders imprisoned, for Tax crimes, or for using Marijuana?
Do you think a guy that was busted for possessing an ounce of MJ, is mixed in with other guys who have murdered?
Do you think Prison guards ever abuse their authority against prisoners?
And lastly. What is the difference between a non-Christian, pretending to be a Christian, and a non-muslim, pretending to be a muslim? Each abusing their supposed authority? Is there a difference?
Confused, you are trying to reason one situation by comparing it to something completely different. All of the action you described happen is all countries most likely without exception. That is in no way an entire society.
I also do not think you understand there are 2 Korans.
"And lastly. What is the difference between a non-Christian, pretending to be a Christian, and a non-muslim, pretending to be a muslim? Each abusing their supposed authority? Is there a difference?"
I suggest you read and understand the religion before you attempt to compare the two, they are far from being the same. You see Islam at its roots is evil read the book, there are good Muslims who are doing their best to reform the relatively young religion, but they face a huge amount of resistance from a vastly larger number of the old school of thought. Christian are peaceful loving people who have pretends trying to pervert the belief. The exact opposite.
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
—
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Submitted by Thundercloud on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 15:31.
Only people.
As far as religious books go.
There are as many "books" as there are people.
What I mean is there are as many interpretations of the exact same book, as there are people who read it. Especially when things are written in such non-specific language.Seems that most religious books, are purposely written in non-specific language.
We're probably not going to agree on this, and that's ok too. I respect your opinion. All opinions are important to me. It helps me understand how and why the world works the way it does.
That is a flawed outlook, if the society is built around said book.
That is not the basis of this argument at all, no one is arguing that there are not good people in every religion, race or creed for that matter. It is the core of the society the the society as a whole that this argument is over.
If a say the economic structure of this society is broken because of its founding principles you cant refute my argument by trying to change the focus of the argument to weather its all economic schemes because there are spend thrifts in every society.
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
—
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
I'm Muslim, there are no 2 Qurans this is the most ridiculous claim I have ever heard. The Quran is the same for anyone, not one for non muslims and one for muslims. The 2 things that most muslims use for their Faith are Quran and Hadith(hadith are supposed recordings of what the Prophet Muhammad has said).
Quran has always been the same(although some translations of the original arabic can sound a little different). Sharia law is always taken from hadith, most of which many muslims such as I consider to be un-islamic since they directly contradict the Quran.
Countries such as Saudia Arabia are the most UN-ISLAMIC countries you'll ever find. With random punishments carried out by the whims of judges. There is no tolerance in those countries, because they are violently totalitarian governments which is actually at odds with what Islam is.(and guess who provides them with logistical, financial, and military support? That's right, its the good ol' US of A)
It is similar to those who claim that Capitalism is the problem in today's society when we all know it is socialism. The definition of capitalism has only been twisted. The Quran is quite clear on many issues:
[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion
[18:29] Proclaim: "This is the truth from your Lord," then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve
[4:90] Exempted are those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.
[10:99] Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers? (the tone mocks the idea of forcing religion onto people)
Of course spreading rumors is a lot easier, and so is calling yourself an expert. But come on man, respect people's intelligence when you make a claim such as "lol n0 1 knwz about 2 quranz"
Westerners who manage to pick up a translation of the Quran are often left bewildered as to its meaning thanks to ignorance of a critically important principle of Quranic interpretation known as "abrogation." The principle of abrogation -- al-naskh wa al-mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated) -- directs that verses revealed later in Muhammad's career "abrogate" -- i.e., cancel and replace -- earlier ones whose instructions they may contradict. Thus, passages revealed later in Muhammad's career, in Medina, overrule passages revealed earlier, in Mecca. The Quran itself lays out the principle of abrogation:
2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?
It seems that 2:106 was revealed in response to skepticism directed at Muhammad that Allah's revelations were not entirely consistent over time. Muhammad's rebuttal was that "Allah is able to do all things" -- even change his mind. To confuse matters further, though the Quran was revealed to Muhammad sequentially over some twenty years' time, it was not compiled in chronological order. When the Quran was finally collated into book form under Caliph Uthman, the suras were ordered from longest to shortest with no connection whatever to the order in which they were revealed or to their thematic content. In order to find out what the Quran says on a given topic, it is necessary to examine the other Islamic sources that give clues as to when in Muhammad's lifetime the revelations occurred. Upon such examination, one discovers that the Meccan suras, revealed at a time when the Muslims were vulnerable, are generally benign; the later Medinan suras, revealed after Muhammad had made himself the head of an army, are bellicose.
Let us take, for example, 50:45 and Sura 109, both revealed in Mecca:
50:45. We know of best what they say; and you (O Muhammad) are not a tyrant over them (to force them to Belief). But warn by the Qur'an, him who fears My Threat.
109:1. Say (O Muhammad to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar {divine foreordainment and sustaining of all things}, etc.)!
109:2. "I worship not that which you worship,
109:3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
109:5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
Then there is this passage revealed just after the Muslims reached Medina and were still vulnerable:
2:256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut {idolatry} and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
In contrast, take 9:5, commonly referred to as the "Verse of the Sword", revealed toward the end of Muhammad's life:
9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Having been revealed later in Muhammad?s life than 50:45, 109, and 2:256, the Verse of the Sword abrogates their peaceful injunctions in accordance with 2:106. Sura 8, revealed shortly before Sura 9, reveals a similar theme:
8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.
8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
The Quran's commandments to Muslims to wage war in the name of Allah against non-Muslims are unmistakable. They are, furthermore, absolutely authoritative as they were revealed late in the Prophet's career and so cancel and replace earlier instructions to act peaceably. Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, Westerners will continue to misread the Quran and misdiagnose Islam as a "religion of peace."
Weather you are ignorant or lying I do not claim to know, but I am not Ignorant.
What would you like next? How about Life long Islamics who revel everything? Got plenty of those. Hell I have an ENTIRE forum/website of them that whose whole purpose is to educate people about Islam and to help other escape with their lives. How about middle east news Interviews of women of escaped speaking out loud about it? Got that as well.
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
—
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Its in the book, and as you own site points out abrogation was confirmed by many Muslim Scholars spanning a time from hundreds of years ago to current time. Only in the light of more and more people seeing the Abrogation for themselves do some start to try and dispute what has been known for centuries to those who actually pay attention.
Book of Truth, that tells its followers that its alight even your duty to lie to the infidels. Yeah no contradiction "abrogation" there.
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
—
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Submitted by Ron Johnson on Sun, 10/18/2009 - 20:10.
There is no single authority in Islam, like a pope, to decide doctrine. The book is open to many different interpretations, and abrogation is one. You seem to be perfectly correct about the doctrin of abrogation, but you seem to be wrong about who accepts it. Clearly not all Muslims buy it. Maybe not even most.
Sort of like Christians arguing over transubstantiation, or whether or not you can earn your way into heaven by good works instead of freely given grace. Christians can't agree on their own Bible. What makes you think Muslims (or Jews, or Buddhists) are all going to agree on all interpretations of their sacred texts?
No matter where you go in the world,
people are the same. They have the same basic needs to provide for their famililies. People are basically good, with the exception of our power hungry overlords.
Any religion or faith, have writings in their sacred books, which are not good. "An eye for and eye", or the idea that your religion is better than someone elses, or to spread the message by the sword if necessary. You can justify any hurtful crime by looking at specific sentences in anyone's "bible, torah, koran".
The good people, will exemplify the good passages of their holy book, by deeds which honor those passages.
What is good and what is evil?
Good does not cause harm to others, Evil does, it is that simple.
We all know what is right in our hearts, the task is to follow our hearts.
This is a great testament to a man who is with God.
Thanks.
The military and the corporations own our government.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4qUY9b3ETU
Please Donate Today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDgz0rODZU&feature=g-upl
CONVENIENT SCAPEGOATS
on 911 judaism framed islam
folks folks > WAKE UP !!!
last century it was jews who were the scapegoats
at the beginning of the 3rd millenium it is the islamics who are now scapegoats, ironically it is the scapegoats of the last century who are most profusely scapegoating islam........
last centuries scapegoats are feverishly telling anyone who will listen that there is a clash between civilisations ( ostensibly between islam and Christianity )
the cold brutal truth is that indeed there is a clash of civilsations but it is between judaism and Christianity
judaism is merely using islam as a ploy to destabilize Christendom
but it won't work
BUT YALL AINT HEARING ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
please visit my website > http://www.culturewars.com/
I don't agree
And I really resent Xtains moving to make this into a religious war. It's not.
Have you been to a US prison lately?
fastest growing religion in the USA in Islam in our prisons.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")
Protestors shut down Ehud Olmert speech at University of Chicago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgN02ZTe5AU
On 15 October 2009, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert came to give the annual King Abdullah II Leadership Lecture at the University of Chicago's Harris School of Public Policy. Outraged that a man responsible for war crimes in Palestine and Lebanon that killed more than three thousand people during his term of office, community members confronted Olmert inside the lecture hall effectively preventing him from delivering his speech. The Goldstone report, examining Israel's attack on Gaza last winter, while Olmert was prime minister, called for Israeli leaders to be held accountable for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Recording and photography were officially banned at Olmert's request, but The Electronic Intifada had a camera anyway as protestor after protestor rose to make a statement before police forced them to leave. Watch this exclusive video.
Thank you, cooper!
This was good! Let him speak when he is at the International Court of Justice being prosecuted for War Crimes!!
*****************
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
That's a BIG gun
So the guy converted to islam outside prison rather than inside prison.
As our prisons grow with black and hispanic races, who clearly see the racism in the prison system, Islam grows stronger everyday in America.
The Ron Paul rEVOLution is a white pimple on the mixed race ass of the real revolution brewing.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")
Yes
I was myself heavily involved with the Muslim community a couple of decades ago. Like with any other group, there are good and bad individuals. No one individual can adequately express the character of the whole group. Hell, there are a few on the daily paul who I think reflect badly on us, although overall I think you're a bunch of great people!
FYi
"Hell, there are a few on the daily paul who I think reflect badly on us, although overall I think you're a bunch of great people!"
i'm not muslim.
The slogan press on has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. No person was ever honored for what he received. Honor has been the reward for what he gave.
- Calvin Coolidge
Kinda funny that...
the shop owner held the gun on the robber while he made him recite a Muslim prayer?
--------
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
that's something the
that's something the mainstream media would do - twist the story... though they didn't in this case.
The slogan press on has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. No person was ever honored for what he received. Honor has been the reward for what he gave.
- Calvin Coolidge
sure it is..... no its not..
sure it is..... no its not.. that is the goodness of one mans heart.. for every 1 of these I can find you way more this is Christian, or this is no religion at all.. RELIGION is the problem.. God looks at a mans heart.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Religion
is no the problem. The problem is a persons heart. Each person is disposed in a certain way. That is the problem. Especially in today's world of broken families. Once upon a time someone said, "Religion is the problem." Now it is a trite non-truth.
It is not this simple
Let me 1st saw I do not support the wars in the middle east we should not be there, but I have seen both sides of Islam and read the horror stories of those who escaped Sharia law.
A large parentage of Islam is the rotten half of the apple sadly, the good are the smaller piece of the pie. I think the numbers shift against the bad apples more and more every year but I am afraid the cart is not quite half good yet.
This is just one of many many examples of the norm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=det7TUsLy8U&feature=player_em...
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
that is also true with
that is also true with Christianity..
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
It may
Have been true of Christianity a VERY long time ago but is no longer true. Name me one country dominated by a Christian regime where non Christians are are beat and murdered for their beliefs openly.
I am sorry but this is like saying a kid is like a mass murderer because he killed a bug. In fact Id go further and say you are entirely wrong the only time Christians would end a life was in self defense, If you do otherwise your not a Christian.
Islam and the Koran is a Subject I have done a great deal of reading on for many years, not just the Koran either, but news from various countries and the life stories of many who fled Islam to save their lives or the lives of their loved ones.
Most people do not even know there are 2 Korans, one the is for the eyes of non Muslims and one for Muslims. Guess which one anyone who argues the case of Islam has seen?
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
I'll name one
The United States.
Save for the one qualifier of "doing it openly".
We run them through the judicial system first. Put them in prison, and do it there.
"I don't endorse anything they say"
~Ron Paul On the 911 Truth movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k
You have
No argument of defense removing a clause at a whim. Why not just remove killing someone from the definition of murder.
Openly means it is accepted, its not a trivial thing as you portray it. So you are wrong. Kill anyone no matter what their beliefs or actions here and you will suffer for your crime. There is a long list of countries that not worshiping Allah will met you such punishment.
Oh and one more thing, America has not been a country controlled by Christians for a LONG time now.
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
It just means we hide it
Put a man in jail for practicing something he believe is right.
Put other men, other supposedly moral Christian men with badges, in charge. They treat the fist man like an animal.
It's actually worse than doing it in public. Because it means we have written it into our law, to allow it.
"I don't endorse anything they say"
~Ron Paul On the 911 Truth movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k
Are you Insane
how can you compare the occasional corrupt non Christian claiming to be a Christian abusing his authority to a Nation or True believers killing beating and enslaving all who do not fit their mold?
How can you even begin to weigh one against the other then even go as far as to claim the lesser is in fact worse then the greater crime. What kind of backwards logic is that?
____________________________________________________
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
"corrupt non Christian claiming to be a Christian"
No true Scotsman, eh?
CHA-CHING!
CHA-CHING!
Living in an insane world
Yes, I am. Relatively.
Do you think Prison guards go to church? Or profess to be Christian?
Do you think there are non-violent offenders imprisoned, for Tax crimes, or for using Marijuana?
Do you think a guy that was busted for possessing an ounce of MJ, is mixed in with other guys who have murdered?
Do you think Prison guards ever abuse their authority against prisoners?
And lastly. What is the difference between a non-Christian, pretending to be a Christian, and a non-muslim, pretending to be a muslim? Each abusing their supposed authority? Is there a difference?
"I don't endorse anything they say"
~Ron Paul On the 911 Truth movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k
I think you are
Confused, you are trying to reason one situation by comparing it to something completely different. All of the action you described happen is all countries most likely without exception. That is in no way an entire society.
I also do not think you understand there are 2 Korans.
"And lastly. What is the difference between a non-Christian, pretending to be a Christian, and a non-muslim, pretending to be a muslim? Each abusing their supposed authority? Is there a difference?"
I suggest you read and understand the religion before you attempt to compare the two, they are far from being the same. You see Islam at its roots is evil read the book, there are good Muslims who are doing their best to reform the relatively young religion, but they face a huge amount of resistance from a vastly larger number of the old school of thought. Christian are peaceful loving people who have pretends trying to pervert the belief. The exact opposite.
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The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
I'm in no way comparing religions
Only people.
As far as religious books go.
There are as many "books" as there are people.
What I mean is there are as many interpretations of the exact same book, as there are people who read it. Especially when things are written in such non-specific language.Seems that most religious books, are purposely written in non-specific language.
We're probably not going to agree on this, and that's ok too. I respect your opinion. All opinions are important to me. It helps me understand how and why the world works the way it does.
"I don't endorse anything they say"
~Ron Paul On the 911 Truth movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k
But sir
That is a flawed outlook, if the society is built around said book.
That is not the basis of this argument at all, no one is arguing that there are not good people in every religion, race or creed for that matter. It is the core of the society the the society as a whole that this argument is over.
If a say the economic structure of this society is broken because of its founding principles you cant refute my argument by trying to change the focus of the argument to weather its all economic schemes because there are spend thrifts in every society.
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The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
There are not 2 Qurans, you don't know what you're talking about
I'm Muslim, there are no 2 Qurans this is the most ridiculous claim I have ever heard. The Quran is the same for anyone, not one for non muslims and one for muslims. The 2 things that most muslims use for their Faith are Quran and Hadith(hadith are supposed recordings of what the Prophet Muhammad has said).
Quran has always been the same(although some translations of the original arabic can sound a little different). Sharia law is always taken from hadith, most of which many muslims such as I consider to be un-islamic since they directly contradict the Quran.
Countries such as Saudia Arabia are the most UN-ISLAMIC countries you'll ever find. With random punishments carried out by the whims of judges. There is no tolerance in those countries, because they are violently totalitarian governments which is actually at odds with what Islam is.(and guess who provides them with logistical, financial, and military support? That's right, its the good ol' US of A)
It is similar to those who claim that Capitalism is the problem in today's society when we all know it is socialism. The definition of capitalism has only been twisted. The Quran is quite clear on many issues:
[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion
[18:29] Proclaim: "This is the truth from your Lord," then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve
[4:90] Exempted are those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.
[10:99] Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers? (the tone mocks the idea of forcing religion onto people)
Of course spreading rumors is a lot easier, and so is calling yourself an expert. But come on man, respect people's intelligence when you make a claim such as "lol n0 1 knwz about 2 quranz"
Do not even
Try to cowl me or paint me as Ignorant.
Westerners who manage to pick up a translation of the Quran are often left bewildered as to its meaning thanks to ignorance of a critically important principle of Quranic interpretation known as "abrogation." The principle of abrogation -- al-naskh wa al-mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated) -- directs that verses revealed later in Muhammad's career "abrogate" -- i.e., cancel and replace -- earlier ones whose instructions they may contradict. Thus, passages revealed later in Muhammad's career, in Medina, overrule passages revealed earlier, in Mecca. The Quran itself lays out the principle of abrogation:
2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?
It seems that 2:106 was revealed in response to skepticism directed at Muhammad that Allah's revelations were not entirely consistent over time. Muhammad's rebuttal was that "Allah is able to do all things" -- even change his mind. To confuse matters further, though the Quran was revealed to Muhammad sequentially over some twenty years' time, it was not compiled in chronological order. When the Quran was finally collated into book form under Caliph Uthman, the suras were ordered from longest to shortest with no connection whatever to the order in which they were revealed or to their thematic content. In order to find out what the Quran says on a given topic, it is necessary to examine the other Islamic sources that give clues as to when in Muhammad's lifetime the revelations occurred. Upon such examination, one discovers that the Meccan suras, revealed at a time when the Muslims were vulnerable, are generally benign; the later Medinan suras, revealed after Muhammad had made himself the head of an army, are bellicose.
Let us take, for example, 50:45 and Sura 109, both revealed in Mecca:
50:45. We know of best what they say; and you (O Muhammad) are not a tyrant over them (to force them to Belief). But warn by the Qur'an, him who fears My Threat.
109:1. Say (O Muhammad to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar {divine foreordainment and sustaining of all things}, etc.)!
109:2. "I worship not that which you worship,
109:3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
109:5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
Then there is this passage revealed just after the Muslims reached Medina and were still vulnerable:
2:256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut {idolatry} and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
In contrast, take 9:5, commonly referred to as the "Verse of the Sword", revealed toward the end of Muhammad's life:
9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Having been revealed later in Muhammad?s life than 50:45, 109, and 2:256, the Verse of the Sword abrogates their peaceful injunctions in accordance with 2:106. Sura 8, revealed shortly before Sura 9, reveals a similar theme:
8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.
8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
The Quran's commandments to Muslims to wage war in the name of Allah against non-Muslims are unmistakable. They are, furthermore, absolutely authoritative as they were revealed late in the Prophet's career and so cancel and replace earlier instructions to act peaceably. Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, Westerners will continue to misread the Quran and misdiagnose Islam as a "religion of peace."
Weather you are ignorant or lying I do not claim to know, but I am not Ignorant.
What would you like next? How about Life long Islamics who revel everything? Got plenty of those. Hell I have an ENTIRE forum/website of them that whose whole purpose is to educate people about Islam and to help other escape with their lives. How about middle east news Interviews of women of escaped speaking out loud about it? Got that as well.
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The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Abrogation is nonsense
And it shows a complete misunderstanding of what the Quran is. I already know where you're getting this from so this is nothing new.
Read this article, you will learn some
http://www.submission.org/abrogation.html
There is no abrogation in the Quran- when any of the verses are read in context things actually make sense.
LOL how did I know youd say that
Its in the book, and as you own site points out abrogation was confirmed by many Muslim Scholars spanning a time from hundreds of years ago to current time. Only in the light of more and more people seeing the Abrogation for themselves do some start to try and dispute what has been known for centuries to those who actually pay attention.
Book of Truth, that tells its followers that its alight even your duty to lie to the infidels. Yeah no contradiction "abrogation" there.
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The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Samecoin, I think you're mistaken
There is no single authority in Islam, like a pope, to decide doctrine. The book is open to many different interpretations, and abrogation is one. You seem to be perfectly correct about the doctrin of abrogation, but you seem to be wrong about who accepts it. Clearly not all Muslims buy it. Maybe not even most.
Sort of like Christians arguing over transubstantiation, or whether or not you can earn your way into heaven by good works instead of freely given grace. Christians can't agree on their own Bible. What makes you think Muslims (or Jews, or Buddhists) are all going to agree on all interpretations of their sacred texts?
Uhmm
I said as much in my previous posts. I made it very clear in fact that not all are of the same mind did I not?
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The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare