I was shocked yesterday (sunday)
Nearly every sunday I go to the local jail to preach the gospel. Well last week after I had finished preaching my sermon one of the guys told me to pray for him because he was going to trial on that tuesday, so I prayed for him the next couple of days, well when sunday comes along, after I preach, I asked him how the trial went, and he said it was post phoned because the witness against him couldnt make it. I was shocked about this because in my mind that should have been a mistrial (you have a right to face your accuser, and you have a right to a speedy trial, if I am wrong about this let me know), and I told him so. I even went so far as to ask what his lawyer (a public defender) was doing (question was I right in doing this). He has been there three months waiting on this trial, so I feel for him. And I know a lot of these guys when they go to trial and are found guilty they get timed served. When I told one of the guards about it he said I was right that it should have been a mistrial, another said I was wrong, and that the jail was full of child molesters and rapist and murders (where I preach at they are their for drug, child support, and misdomeners) so I know he was kinda against all these people. After that I left there. Question did I handle this right and what should I do next time?
Also I like to tell the men in there that they need to learn there rights, and learn the law (both bible and constitution).
I'll tell you what happened to me once.
It was over a "speeding" ticket, but it's the same principal.
After pleading "not guilty", I was handed a paper to sign. The paper referenced something I didn't understand so I refused to sign. I looked up some stuff after I got home and it turned out what they asked me to sign would have waived my right to a speedy trial.
Come trial date, the officer (my accuser) couldn't be there due to training. Obviously, they knew he couldn't be there, which is why they wanted me to waive my right to a speedy trial so they could schedule the trial date later.
He probably was asked to sign something like that and he probably did it.
Also, I strongly urge you to talk to someone experienced in prison ministry. You're getting involved on more than one level here and that may or may not be a good thing in the long run. What happens to your ministry if prisoners start telling you things that will get you subpoenaed? There could be all kinds of dangers you should be aware of and you need someone who can give it to you straight.
You need a mentor in this who has been there before. If your only available mentors within prison ministry (not guards) are of the "there's a bunch of rapists and murderers" here ilk, dig deeper and see if you can still squeeze some "been there, done that" scenarios out of them.
Defend Liberty!
Yes , protect your self
Yes , protect your self legally..Good people do Good deeds..Your signature, like with the IRS 1040 , admitts jurisdiction.
Good people make it happen
Depends weather a motion was
Depends whether a motion was filed for delay..If not file a motion to dismiss.
Good people do Good deeds
Good people make it happen
Trial for what?
You didn't mention what crime the man's accused of.
That the trial was postponed is good as the accused will have a chance to prove his innosense or the victim receive justice.
You're a good man for visiting those in jail.
I dont know
and I feel that is none of my business. It is a lot easier to preach when you dont know why they have been incarcerated, but since he is on the third floor it was probably a drug offence or petty theft. The guys who are brought in for really bad stuff are on the 5th and 6th floor, and they usually have to wait two to three years for their trial (wonder how many of them are found not guilty after the long wait in jail).
Wow - I don't think you did anything wrong!
Remember, Jesus was a prisoner held unjustly by the state! Why should it be wrong for you to act with compassion toward this prisoner? I guess they might take away your privileges to preach... but that wouldn't make it wrong. I think you acted with love and compassion. It's exactly as Jesus would have acted. I don't know the law at all. You could find out if you are wrong or not - if you are wrong you could admit it to the prisoner. Do you have any friends who are lawyers? You could call this guy's lawyer and ask him... Yes, you might lose your privileges at the prison. But look what Jesus was willing to lose...
I dont think it was a law, but a rule.
and I made it clear it is his lawyer he should be upset with and not the judge. Also I do not know if he waved his rights or not, although at this stage that would be his lawyers fault for not informing him of his rights. but it is like all the guards say, they would not take the public defendant they would rather defend themselves (Ive asked). And I think that is saying something.
There are some rights you cannot waive...
It is very sad when you start really looking into the justice system. There are so many innocent people incarcerated and denied their rights. Then there is the issue of drug laws. The preponderance of prisoners are in jail for drug offenses, not crimes against ones person or property. In fact, it's the violent criminals who get sent out early into the streets to commit their violent crimes again! It's a terrible shame to deprive a person of liberty when they have hurt no one but themselves. And they rot in prison and leave children and families without fathers and mothers. That really is a crime.
I am always reminded that Jesus was the biggest revolutionary of all time. The truth that He spoke is so rarely heard. Just like He said. Here is a very pretty song that says it well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEC7d5jbAbo
I hope you enjoy it and I admire what you are doing!
Public defenders are usually just getting started
They work in the courts and only loosely represent their "clients". Half the time they're dating the state's attorney or the judge's clerk. Imagine working in an office where one guy's job (technically) was to be the boss' adversary. How long do you the guy who sticks to the job description will last? And. . .while other lawyers are sitting in the courtroom waiting for their case to be called they can headhunt for their firm. A talented PD can earn $60,000, a talented criminal lawyer their age can make $120,000 or more. Only the ones who both suck and agree to play ball remain.
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You mean
Going fishin isn't gunna solve the problem?
What about all those people you said should be afraid of the "strawman" theory?
Should the guys already in jail be scared of it too?
Wraiththirteen - I applaud you
No matter what someone has been in prison for, everyone needs someone on their side. Most inmates are there for a reason but, it is not up to us to judge. At this point in my life I am not sure it is up to the legal system to judge.
So many people are in jail today for no reason. So many people are in jail for a reason. In picking the ones that should or should not be is not up to us. We must follow our hearts which can be wrong but, If you make one right choice then it was all worth it. One person having true justice is worth all the others taking advantage of the loopholes.
I want you to know that I had several work release inmates working for me . To get 2 good ones, I had to go through 15 that were not so good. This was a good experience for me for I used to have no belief in the system nor in convicts. One in particular was Ray. Had been in prison(Angola) for 23 years for drugs. This man became a preacher, college graduate, and just a good person. He and I had many deep conversation about politics, religion, you name it. He never once disregarded my beliefs(trust me they were not the same) nor I his.
He got out a year ago. I and my family put on his wedding, keep an eye on his family and I truly love this man. He was a blessing in my life and in our community. What I ask you is not to worry but to follow your heart. No, you will never be 100% right with all of them but, If you save one then it is worth it. Trust me, Ray is a great guy.
1976-1982 USMC, You can thank me for my service by voting for Dr. Ron Paul, President 2012
There there, they're in there waiting for their trial
They let the little sucker go that robbed me because I couldn't be there for the trail. I was on a tugboat in Alaska. They got a 1 week delay so I could make it and as the boat approached Seattle in a huge twist of irony they turned us around, adding 2 weeks to the trip, sending another barge out to us. Ironic since in 10 years of sailing that was the only time it happened!
So .... mistrial... and the little sucker gets off with it.
"Shaka, when the walls fell. Timba, his eyes wide open. Darmok and Jilad at Tenagra."
"Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."
-- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, Francisco's "Money Speech"
Read:
1984
Atlas Shrugged
Captains and the Kings
Economics in One Lesson
Meltdown
where I preach at
they have people waiting months and years for their trials, so usually when they get sentinced the judge has to set them free because they have already served their time, or more than their time. And how many people have been arrested and held in jail falsely and the "witness" leaves them in their to rot? I believe the declaration of independence deals with this some.
where I preach at
they have people waiting months and years for their trials, so usually when they get sentinced the judge has to set them free because they have already served their time, or more than their time. And how many people have been arrested and held in jail falsely and the "witness" leaves them in their to rot? I believe the declaration of independence deals with this some.
Sorry he got let go but,
I also work offshore and when necessary I can get off. May you look in yourself and decide if maybe this person will get what he/she brings on themselves and may you forgive yourself for being a victim.
I have been robbed. It was my fault for not protecting, seeing, what brought it about. I mean NO disrespect but, we must all look at what causes an action and keep it form happening again. Before getting Pissed at me please read the post I am going to make above in just a couple of minutes.
I truly meant no disrespect for your plight or circumstances.
1976-1982 USMC, You can thank me for my service by voting for Dr. Ron Paul, President 2012
I am not a Christian
So I may be completely wrong for you to accept advice, but since you asked:
1. I would have a talk with the warden or his assistant OR whoever gave you the opportunity to preach at the jail.
2. IMO YES, you made a mistake. I do not know if you broke a law or a rule, but I would find out, after all, mistakes can be very good lessons, especially if you can learn from the mistake before you pay for the mistake.
3. The next time I see the prisoner I would apologise, "You know, So and so, I owe you an apology for getting personal with you beyond my mission, to bring you the gospels. I am a sinner, and I hope I have not failed you, and that you can forgeive me for interfering in your business. I care. I think you know I do. So please, forgive me, and let's pray harder today/night, that we shall overcome the evil together in Christs' name.
4. BE a preacher who brings the gospels to a place where people NEED the break, the time, the hope, the prayers and have them receive the blessings of worship THROUGH you, not OF you.
5. Maybe you would be a good counseller. You appear to be a natural. Find out how you can contribute more, for example, ever think about becomming a para-legal? Mediator?
6. GOOD LUCK
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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ok
1 I have no contact with the guy over the jail. and very little contact with the chaplin of the jail (who happens to be a great guy)
2. Yeah I know I made a mistake but I was shocked and you react differently when that happens.
3. He came to me and brought this stuff up. I was just trying to encourage him and point him to the constitution, particularlly those 6, and 7, and 8 ammendments
4. Actually I preached out of phillipians 4:4-7
I Rejoice
II Moderation
III Pray
But I also understand that the Bible says that my people perish for a lack of understanding
5. hopefully one day I can be a pastor and do the counciling thing full time. I know some of them want me to council them some but I always try to point back to the scripture. And I usually know where stuff is, because I am a Christian who actually reads the Bible daily.
6. thanks
I'm torn between admiration and ridicule for you...
You going to a prison and teaching these guys what their rights are, helping them get real justice is just about the most admirable things I've ever heard of any DPer. Concentrate on this, and forget the preaching stuff. You can't hope & pray your way out of jail, but learning the justice system is the best gift you can give. Leading by example, like you're doing is more powerful than teaching the fables of the bible. Tell them to pay you back by being a good person, respecting others.
As a preacher, this will be insulting to you, but you asked, so that's my humble opinion.
The best thing these guys need is Christ
I am not saying any of these guys are innocent (far from it many of them have told me they are not) I am saying I am shocked a lawyer would miss the whole mistrial thing. And I do not teach these guys much about the law of man, except for the occational do not talk to police thing when I bring up james 3:2 (about the tounge) its just that I was shocked enough to bring this up with him even though I am not supposed too. And I often tell these guys to go out and learn their rights. But what is the point if they are still in bondage to sin? Jesus can set them free from that.
Quite true.
You can be free from jail and bound to sin. Both put an individual in chains.
Ron Paul 2012
www.josiahgarber.com/blog
www.heirloomgardenpro.com
www.mennonitesforronpaul.com
Jesus won't do squat for these guys...
focus on getting them proper justice. If they're guilty, tell them to pay their debt to society, and be a better person when they've paid their debt. How can they go out and learn their rights? They're in prison! If you want to help them, drop the preaching and get to helping, even if it means having to do some digging yourself. I know you're capable, you've expended all that energy learning all those bible fables, so you can learn some basic law.
The lawyer didn't miss anything, they just want to make their jobs as easy as possible, and go home to their comfy lives.
I know a guy
whos parents spent a 180 thousand dollars to get him off of drugs, then he came to Jesus (about 2, or 3 years ago) and he hasnt touched them since. His name is brandon morris. So since Jesus helped him out (among many many many others) I know he can help these guys out. Actually went to Bible collage with several people that were in jail or prison at one time in their life till their heart and mind and life were unshackled.
also see http://www.unshackled.org/listen_home.html
Says you. Jesus has made a
Says you. Jesus has made a huge impact on my life and brought me more joy and hope than I can imagine. He has sustained me repeatedly through the hard times and provided for me again and again. When one has tasted the grace of God, it would be hatred to keep that truth from those who need it. Why should I be silent about that which brings me joy?
Miracles can and do happen.