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SF Straw Poll Cancelled - too many Ron Paul supporters

The San Francisco Straw Poll was canceled tonight because there were too many Ron Paul supports. I arrived at 7:00 for dinner, speeches by representatives of each candidate and then a straw poll.

Unfortunately, at around 9:45pm when the straw poll was about to take place, Gail Neira of the SF Republican Alliance, announced that she was cancelling the straw poll because it was unfair. She was referring to the approximately 40 Ron Paul supports that were standing in the back of the room with Ron Paul signs. She went on to say that she was overwhelmed by the number of Ron Paul supports that showed up, but by that time the crowd was in an uproar.

I was outraged and so was everyone else. It was very difficult to hold back the emotions and remain calm. I can only imagine what will happen in the primaries, when too many Ron Paul supporters show up. Will they just cancel the elections?

To be accurate, the dinner was $33 and Gail allowed people who didn't want to eat or couldn't make it in time for dinner to pay $5 to participate in the straw poll later in the evening. This wasn't really the issue, since most of the people that showed up would have paid the $33 and said so, when she used money as an excuse.

The event was caught on film and there will be a YouTube video soon. It's great to be a part of the Ron Paul R[EVOL]UTION.

Clarification: Sorry, someone else took the video and said they would post it to YouTube. I don't have the video.




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That security guard...

looks strikingly similar the one who appears in the video taken in the Texas straw poll - the one turning people away at the door! Is that just coincidence?

"Liberty tastes sweetest to those who fight for it, and most bitter to those who work to deny it!"

LearnRonPaul

At this rate I could imagine the establishment's next move...

FRONT PAGE -

Due To Overwhelming Support For RON PAUL The 2008 Election Has Been Canceled.

Sorry. Nothing to see here. Move along now.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The American Revolution 2.0 will not be televised... It will be downloaded!!!

=====================================

"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009

Emailing or calling this woman is pointless...

But for the record (because it is/was absent from this thread) below are links to the OBJECTIVE information that was PUBLISHED regarding this event, and upon which the RP group based their "invitation" to it.

Here's a link to a PDF of the "announcment flyer"

Note that it states (in Bold Text) that the "Results from guests voting for favorite presidential candidates in only local straw poll will be publicized"

Then there is also a rather weird statement in the top section of the announcement: "Instead, local Republicans like you brave enough to remain, vote or volunteer as Republicans deserve admiration." [emphasis added]

Then it even blatantly suggests people to bring friends: "Or Bring your friends to make it YOUR PARTY." [emphasis added]

Which to me, makes it sound like she was openly inviting Ron Paul supporters to "bring your friends" and "make it YOUR party" -- well looks like she got exactly what she was asking for right? And isn't that what we're all working so hard to do... make the Republican Party OUR Party [again].

And here is the Google Cached page of the Alameda GOP calendar where it was listed and published as a public party-related event and where I fetched the link to the PDF from.

Also interesting to note is that the local Ron Paul meetup has over 400 members -- if only 75 of them showed up for the event, that was less than 20% of their total numbers... they didn't even "spam" it with anywhere NEAR their full strength (much less friends and spouses!)

If I May Suggest Some things re: Emailing Gail (her name)

Forgiveness is great. It is REALLY great when you don't give it in a "blame box" Therefore, I would take an even higher road. Please just avoid # 1 where you say, "you were wrong" because at this point, it is her word against yours. Last time i checked she had not "admitted blame" in the paper - so - it's sort of at an impasse for now. Let her next actions speak - not your suspicions. IF you get the real straw poll you want then you are ahead. What i mean...

NOT BAD:
"Dear Ms. Neira, We realize there was a misunderstanding (etc. etc) and while some people do believe that [you were aiming at barring Ron Paul supporters from getting good numbers, whatever] we also understand your stance is that you did not mean for that to be the case. Rather than remain at an impasse, we would like to 'start over' ; have another straw poll, and spend some quality time, getting to know each other better. "
NO REAL DIRECT BLAME that says, you were wrong.

EVEN BETTER:
Dear Ms. Neira, We would like to extend our best wishes and thank you for extending the invitation to Ron Paul supporters to your recent (dinner, event, whatever) We realize our numbers were large and that for whatever reason, the straw poll did not take place, as we had hoped. People have varying opinions on what happened, however, rather than living in the past, we look forward to a future relationship with the Republ Alliance (whatever) In the spirit of Freedom, let us work to conduct a free and open straw poll within the next (x days, whatever) With your experience, Ms. Neira, we are expecting a good event."

once you make another personal contact (with someone in SF)- all will be revealed anyway! Because people can be read in person.

Only bad can come of starting out.... "Hey gee, you are guilty as sin, but we are such wonderful, self-righteous blameless people we intend to give yer guilty ass another chance!" If you force her hand, she will fold.

Ron Paul 2008

LORD BLESS US ALL

By emailing anything of the sort, you are simply sanctioning

her future actions of a similar sort.

The woman has been reprimanded previously by her local GOP party. (I do not know the specifics, but am trusting that it was done in a manner of due process and with thorough opportunity for her to present a defense. If they failed to do so, she would have been entitled to bring suit in court for libel; since she did NOT do so, she has apparently consented to that judgement.)

Granted you "Unaboomer" have purportedly had a phone call with her and she has "won you over" and somehow convinced you that SHE is somehow the poor unwitting victim in all of this. IMHO, that could only be achieved by someone who is a master of emotional manipulation. (that link has a list of Eight Ways to identify such manipulation... she pretty much hits the bullseye on all points -- she's virtually a "professional" at this!)

You may say that "Oh, she couldn't or wouldn't have done that" -- but most people (incorrectly) feel that they are somehow "immune" to such emotional manipulation (just like mmost people feel they are "excellent" drivers w/o any objective evidence), and as such they are reticent or unwilling to admit that they have been or are even capable of being hoodwinked. Yet it happens all the time. And when objective evidence stands in opposition, then IT must be relied upon and the "emotions" or "sympathy" must be rejected.

Note that I am NOT suggesting that people call or email or contact this woman in ANY way -- NOT to condemn NOR to "pardon" -- in my opinion, neither will have any beneficial effect. She has had many opportunities to "come clean" and instead is attempting (and apparently succeeding with some) to cast herself as the "victim," to make the Ron Paul supporters look like the offenders, and come out of this smelling like a Rose.

Don't be a party to it in any regard. Let her local GOP and/or the local Ron Paul supporters deal with her (IMO they likely have a basis for a lawsuit alleging fraud).

You are 100% Correct on All Counts

Being an apologist for evil taints a person with that evil, because it makes the person partially responsible for the perpetuation of the evil.

This woman broke a contract with the people in attendance at the straw pole. The reason appears to be because she was attempting to utilize the media to perpetrate a fraud on other Republican candidates by fixing the straw pole. I'm sorry, but that plants her firmly in "scum-bag" territory.

I'm not calling for any type of severe punishment, but certainly public humiliation is the very least that she deserves. That also stands as a warning to others who would perpetrate similar frauds on the people. Emailing her, as you said, is pointless at best, and potentially destructive.

Forgiveness

Let's think, what would Ron Paul do?

Now that her name has been trotten in the mud, and she was caught in a nasty situation (which she caused herself), it is time to forgive.

She may be a dirty, nasty liar, but that doesn't mean we have to resort down to her level and call her any more names. The public knows who she is, in fact the video was on drudgereport.com for 1/4 of the day and is still all over digg.

Now it's time to respectfully request to hold a real straw poll with equal time for those that want to stump. Obviously she's on high alert defensive, it would be a a positive shock to her to see that people actually forgive her for her wrongdoing, and be positive.

I think it would be a positive gesture if people would email her to let her know that:
#1 she was wrong in her action
#2 that you personally hold no ill-will toward the person, but to the action she took. And forgive her for this action.
#3 that a new straw poll would be fair as long as those that want to stump for their choice where allowed to do so.

Perfect

.
The improbable task is to bring Light to any situation and forgiveness is, in the end, the only right action.

We have seen a number of RP supporters who are outraged about one thing or another. The outrage may be justified, but retribution only makes things worse.

The above post was a breath of fresh air.
.

Stress

She got into situation she did not expect. How many of you do the right thing when caught off guard? It would be nice to offer her help so that she could feel better - and RP would get maybe a new supporter. Any ideas?

Thanks for not "blaming me" and so on. But, let us be careful

I want to go on record as NOT calling anyone a liar, and also, i have not followed protocol. I did NOT wait for Gail to APPROVE what i posted. I confess, i did NOT think anyone would say, "She is a liar" and yeah, i actually appreciate that you exclude ME of this, but i also would like to err on the side of extreme caution. As the days progress, let us be mindful of all things we say. Please do not infer anything with an unclean motive here. I have not looked at the links, but i will.

My conversation was not recorded, and i am human, so.. you are all free to decide that you want, but IF you are going to make claims, please do not use something i posted, please do check WITH GAIL DIRECTLY first. She may say, "Unaboomer misquoted me, and i did not lie to her!" You see? This is a matter of how we say what we are trying to say, that's all.

While i am comfortable with the role of mediator, the larger issue was that i was asked to repeat some statements. I of course considered, am i being used by a clever person. Sure, i thought about that.
But if she really is inept at Youtube, (i cannot know for sure), is she really going to enter the Lion's Den? I could understand her NOT wanting to sign up for a Ron Paul forum.

I cannot confirm or discredit one thing she said - but, in one hour, i found no actual contradictions in her statements, that i am aware of. As to the truthfulness, i have NO IDEA. I still made the editorial statement that an olive branch is best - and i believe that. Deception is a fact of life. And i have had very good luck with a direct approach to confronting deceit and disagreements head on. So, while i appreciate concern / sentiment that maybe i was being used, i just cannot recommend my informal post as the BEST place to confront a person's character.

I want to thank people for not directing anger at me. Thanks.

Ron Paul 2008

LORD BLESS US ALL

Handling difficult situations...

.
...requires a deep spiritual perspective, which (unfortunately) our Western culture does not teach, nurture or support. The U.S. is the land of Chuck Norris types - kick the guy in the head and then go out for a beer. Good for cavemen, but not for anybody who has any interest in the ultimate good.

The main thing is to stay calm, no matter what happens. Peaceful protest is often useful, but not confrontational stuff. Only makes it worse for everybody and brings darkness when light is the only real remedy.
.

Stress?

What would she have to stress out about? The democratic process?

She helped..

Unwittingly, she helped energize us and get press coverage we wouldn't otherwise have.

Now, I say take the high road - we all make mistakes and there's a few things I've done I wish I could take back, fortunately they aren't in video.

A peace offering to her would bring positive media attention and help us get Dr. Paul where he belongs.....something about catching flyes with sugar.....

p.s. I was SOOOOOOOOOOO #$%^^&$%&$%& last night about this, but now I've slept on it.

SHE IS A LIAR AND I HAVE PROOF

Listen people what she told Unaboomer is a flat out lie and what she tols the media is a flat out lie and here is the proof.

1: She says very clearly in this video the reason she is cancelling the straw poll is because this is unfair to the other people that are there! What? Un fair to the people that were there were also Ron Paul supporters.

Here is a link to the video where she states this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWT...

She also told the media that she cancelled the straw poll because people were invited that she didn't know and were not on her list.

The advertisement on the official web site advertising the event seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWT...

The web site States clearly and i quote : The San Francisco Republican Assembly, which hosts the Common Sense Supper Club (C.S.S.C.) will host State Senator Quentin Kopp. He will speak about the dynamics of the upcoming election. The senator is among the most influential and respected of State Senators and a lion of local politics.

The Common Sense Supper Club is opened to all persons of good will wishing to be intellectually stimulated while enjoying fine food and meeting new friends. In other words, our Club is for you!

This Woman is a liar end of story!

Dr. Steve Parent

links?

FYI Those links did not work for me. They did not take me where i needed to go. Thanks.

LORD BLESS US ALL

A lot of people throw a great "pity party" after they've been

caught in a dishonest act. That's how they are able to perpetrate their dishonesty for years without suffering consequences. Too many people are willing to let the "pity partier's" dishonesty "slide" because they cry really well.

The Proverb Corner

The question was asked of Jesus, "How many times must we forgive" and the short answer Jesus gave was "Seven times seven". People who forgive because someone "cried well" are not so simple as one might think. Dishonesty has a strong stench. I am one of those people who forgives, and happy to be that way. Every action has its own reward. I am not on this Earth to determine how much a person is faking it when they ask for forgiveness; I see my job in that regard as more or less asking that person to OWN the truth of that request for forgiveness. I have actually been told by people that they became better people because i said "I believe you" every time they told me a lie. :) THINK. Process. Think more. Then act. With Love.

"A gentleman is someone who never hurts another's feeling unintentionally." The key is to hurt feelings is a constructive way, i believe.

Feelings hurt with respect heal, and learning is a joy forever.

Ron Paul 2008

LORD BLESS US ALL

Forgiveness is not a "pardon"

You are taking that quote entirely out of it's context, and thus distorting the wisdom and teaching within it.

"Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."
-- Luke 17:3-4

The offer of forgiveness and the grace are "extended", but they do not become effectual without acknowledgment of one's sin and repentance of it.

Those who blatantly and brazenly LIE and do NOT repent, are not entitled to a blanket absolution or forgiveness.

Your theology of forgiveness is flawed, it is much like Mr. Huckabee's proposed "pardon" and eventual parole of Wayne Dumond.

IMO, and from the evidence I have seen (including the a copy of the original announcement/invitation for the event -- downloaded directly from the Alameda GOP website) -- this woman's statements are outright lies and distortions. If the journalists were worthy of the name, such evidence would have been placed directly before her as Nathan laid the truth before King David.

But regardless of whether the evidence is publicly placed before her, SHE already knows of it's existence, and therefore she knows that she is lying to the press and the public (but like most liars, she is doing so because she believes she will "get away with it") -- granting her a blanket "forgiveness" without the required acknowledgment of the lies is equivalent of handing her a blank check to repeat her actions again and again. This is both a Biblical and a human psychological truth.

Good Suggestions, Unaboomer

I'm reminded of all the times when police officers shoot at "unarmed" mobs. Because, of course, a hundred people have 200 arms! People make bad decisions when they're scared or surprised. You have to calm them down before you try to reason with them.

I'd like to see this turn positive.

IMissLiberty

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Flowers are always nice

When i have a bad altercation with a person who happens to be female, i usually send nice flowers. It is amazing how an actual gesture of kindness brings people together. I would love to see a Ron Paul supporter from that group do that -just send her a dozen roses. You can't be mad in that instant when you are looking at something that exquisite that smells that sweet. I don't think you can anyway. Peace. Love.

ADDITION: AND, we who are just hearing stuff and were not there - we could send NICE emails to counter the dozens of angry ones she is getting. We can, we are calmer. And after all, what is going to give us more bang for our little clicking fingers? :)

Ron Paul 2008

LORD BLESS US ALL

I send cupcakes

.
Not everybody likes flowers, but everybody loves cupcakes.
.

Just Got Off Phone With Gail Neira

Hello folks,
PLEASE DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER. I know some of you were "there" in SF. But, I just got off the phone with Gail Neira, we spoke for about an hour i guess, and i made a PROMISE to her to report on our chat. I am in Wisconsin, not CA. I was told she also had conversations with people In Nevada somewhere, Philly, and Atlanta, so maybe there will be similar posts. Here are the basics, as i promised her i would post...
1.In her paraphrased words, she is one woman who has tried to get new ideas in the Old Guard GOP for years - with little/no luck.
2. She has had a hard enough time standing on her own and has done these "alternate" parties (which are private, that she mostly funds apparently) to get different ideas - since 1999. So, she has experience, but she is no "mastermind" if you ask me - my gut response.
3. She totally does understand why a person would have been very disappointed and even "angry" she said. But she also said, there would have been other alternatives rather than her being followed to the parking lot. (again, i am just repeating - y'all have your version) By the tone of her voice, i really do feel she was very upset about being singled out as some horrible GOP monger (my words)
4. She said, had things not gotten so hot, she would have expected the Ron Paul camp to ask for a negotiated poll - further down the line. Again, she felt it was a disorganized, surprise thing that she was not prepared for. I asked her very direct questions. I did not get the sense that she is some "anti-Paul" person. I just did not get that sense. And i have interviewed hundreds of people.
5. Gail feels that what Ron Paul supporters unwittingly did was to make Gail look bad, thus fueling the old guard central committee's flame to burn her. If you burn her, you burn one of the few voices that is STILL LOOKING for her candidate - a voice that may have said, "Ron Paul". She says she had wanted to consider Ron Paul, but now feels quite - maybe violated or betrayed (MY WORDS). In a nut shell, she feels that through a phone tree, rather than having six Ron Paul supporters to join, she got like EIGHTY and she felt it was sort of - abusing the idea. And also she states that there are rules about max. occupancy, and also the room was scheduled for only a certain hour, and the straw poll, with all those many extra people, would have gone over that time. But i got the sense that Gail felt that any poll would be sort of bogus. It was going to be reported - and i think she honestly felt it was not going to be very scientific - it was not like it was publicly advertised. I was NOT THERE. But i am trying to be an impartial listener for her. I can understand her. And what is the VALUE to the Ron Paul Campaign if numbers are being manipulated by stuffing the ballot box through a phone tree? I can see her point, and again, I WAS NOT THERE...
6. Gail also feels that Ron Paul supporters have absolutely nothing - not one thing, to GAIN, by making a big media thing about this. Why? Because the Old Guard already has a stuff job going. One article directed at a person who is NOT part of that Old Male Guard is - not so great. Meaning, whereas she could have been won over by Ron Paul supporters, she now feels so attacked - a possible bridge has been burned. Forever? I hope not. I plan to keep corresponding with Ms. Neira.

Well, those who were there, you have to determine if one woman attacked you or manipulated you or whatever you think happened. I am sure those who were turned away felt HORRIBLE and got very HOT. I tried to explain to Gail that those of us who want this SO BADLY get very upset. But honestly, she feels so - again my word - violated and tricked herself, that - she just is not ready to see that yet. And that is scary to ME. I don't want Ron Paul supporters ticking off these fringe people who are part of the system who MIGHT come around to our side. She does NOT like the major candidates she says and i personally do believe her. I tried to get her to name her candidate - and she did not. If you think she was faking it... Well, i have a bit of INFORMATION that someone in SF might want. So please will A SAN FRANSCISCO RON PAUL SUPPORTER - ACTIVE PERSON SHOULD EMAIL ME. But please not just everyone on this, ok? Thanks. Table_30@yahoo.com

IN CLOSING - after speaking with Ms. Gail Neira, i DO NOT think she was working under some diabolical cloak to squelch the vote. What i DO THINK is that she is not yet a Ron Paul supporter, she felt her PRIVATE PARTY was TAKEN OVER by Hoodlums (pardon me, i do understand but- i am trying to play mediator here and i have to be frank to do it) and i also feel that the REACTION of anger and loudness (while understandable) just pushed her over the edge. Let me use a technical phrase we all understand that is foremost in Ms. Neira's mind "Man, i don't need this shit!"

So, i have stuck MY NECK out now, as a person who was NOT THERE. Then again, i am a 'disinterested 3rd party' as it pertains to THIS EVENT.Believe me, i am ALL RON PAUL. And for that reason, i actually have a suggestion. Someone in the SF area MIGHT CONSIDER reaching out to Ms. Neira - ask for forgiveness - ask for discussion, and request another chance to co-exist and work to dethrone the Old Guard that is doing MUCH MUCH MORE to harm the Ron Paul efforts than one "maverick" woman who could have done some good. Show her we can get good numbers in the calm way, by winning people over with the Freedom message. I know this makes me a target - DON'T CARE but i don't want you to waste time and e-space either. Think.

OK, i have either assessed the situation pretty well, OR i have just spent an hour talking to the greatest con artist of all times. I THINK she is not that. PLEASE - don't just slam me, ok? I HAVE SAID THIS IN HER WORDS, PARAPHRASED - I HOPE CLOSE ANYWAY. I have done my duty here - this was the condition of me getting answers to the questions i did ask. This woman is SO UPSET. she first talked for like 15 minutes without a break. She is swamped with calls, emails. Lots of BAD BAD energy. Here is some advice from an old corporate person who has ironed out many a conflict: If you want to make a POSITIVE out of an incredible NEGATIVE, you will send out an olive branch, and help this woman who is NOT THE PROBLEM. She really isn't. There are far far bigger fish to fry, folks. Ok, someone EMAIL ME FOR THAT TIP. Thank you.

Ron Paul 2008

LORD BLESS US ALL

~

she's been unfair and committed an injustice.
there are no excuses,
either she honestly admits why she did what she did, and say sorry, or she'll be seen as part of the vote controlling process.

(i'm british by the way, and even i can see what's happened here plain as day).

Methinks the latter...

OK, i have either assessed the situation pretty well, OR i have just spent an hour talking to the greatest con artist of all times.

I believe she has had several opportunities to come forward, admit her errors, and ASK for forgiveness herself.

I've been given many similar "crocodile tears" scenarios by many women in business over the years... many men fall for this repeatedly, and a lot of these women are very savvy at playing them with the "drama" routine.

I don't buy it. The objective evidence stands directly against everything she has claimed; and she keeps digging a deeper and deeper hole for herself.

The tears aren't worth the bottle of eyedrops that they came from. Face it, you were out of your league here, and were conned by an EXPERT in emotional manipulation.

Honor and San Fran

If she didn't want a problem, she should have honored her written word. People should suffer the consequences of their actions. We have seen this in Iowa, Texas, Florida, and now San Francisco. This cheating is a theme and these people want to play innocent. They deserve what they get. If people idly stand by and let this type of thing go on, it is just as big of a crime. Look at the state of our country because people looked the other way and shrugged their shoulders. Well, they really had good intentions.....NOT.

She ultimately called the Ron Paul supporters "hoodlums," and we should treat her respectfully? And if Ron's supporters could get voters there through a "phone tree," why couldn't the others?

As for her voting for Ron Paul. If she has any integrity at all, she will do so based on Ron and not the justified comments of the individuals at the so-called straw poll that she viciously corrupted.

Bottom line, she is a weasel and a liar and deserves what she gets. Some people just don't deserve honey, but vinegar. Sorry, but she had her chance to prove herself.....and she did!

Bob W., Naples, FL

This was a shill event for Fred Thompson for positive media

coverage, and they got caught with their pants down.

She is a scum-bag, and trying to appease these people and letting them off the hook is what keeps getting this country screwed by these jerk-offs. This should be advertised across the country. She should be exposed, and a message should be sent to all the other scum-bags who would do the same thing:

"This is the start of a new day. You will no longer be able to screw us in anonymity. Your dishonesty will be exposed for all to see. We will not take it anymore!!!"

UnaBoomer is RIGHT!

This poor woman was put through hell.

We should be sending her flowers. Not to many though!

I like the suggestion of getting someone in SF to go down and make amends. I am sure there is someone up to the task.

This woman and many others like her ARE the ones we need to reach out to.

What has gotten us so far in this campaign?

People coming together to help Ron Paul. Not attacking a nice woman who could have(maybe still) become a supporter. And she is working on the inside no less.

Shame!

It was OK to be upset at the event. But lets not all pile on this poor woman, lets get off her back, and help her up perhaps?

SHE IS A LIAR

Listen people what she told Unaboomer is a flat out lie and what she tols the media is a flat out lie and here is the proof.

1: She says very clearly in this video the reason she is cancelling the straw poll is because this is unfair to the other people that are there! What? Un fair to the people that were there were also Ron Paul supporters.

Here is a link to the video where she states this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWTj0KNEhc

She also told the media that she cancelled the straw poll because people were invited that she didn't know and were not on her list.

The advertisement on the official web site advertising the event seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWTj0KNEhc

The web site States clearly and i quote : The San Francisco Republican Assembly, which hosts the Common Sense Supper Club (C.S.S.C.) will host State Senator Quentin Kopp. He will speak about the dynamics of the upcoming election. The senator is among the most influential and respected of State Senators and a lion of local politics.

The Common Sense Supper Club is opened to all persons of good will wishing to be intellectually stimulated while enjoying fine food and meeting new friends. In other words, our Club is for you!

This Woman is a liar end of story!

Dr. Steve Parent

Cut her some slack...

Maybe she just is really, really, REALLY stupid.

At first I was really shocked and saddened by it. But now I feel like we're beating up on a stupid woman (in a funny santa outfit and clutching a fishbowl) which goes against my upbringing. I'm starting to feel really bad for her.