The lunar hoax theory
Submitted by northstar on Sat, 10/24/2009 - 00:50
--- This program was aired on Friday October 23, 2009 ---
9 photo's to discuss on C2C
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/photogallery/view/lunar-hoax-m...
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Article from Lew Rockwell today
http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl/faked-moon-landings.html
It got me researching Bill Kaysing today.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
Look at the footage of the rovers.
The dust they kick up follows perfect parabolic trajectories, and lands right back on the ground immediately. That doesn't happen in an atmosphere. So, do Sibrel and his fanboys claim that the footage was shot on a soundstage in a vacuum?
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
Yes, lets look at the footage of the rovers
My guess is that wet sand could create these perfect parabolic trajectories. No one is claiming that is was filmed in a vacuum-studio. That is probably something the Apollo-hoax deniers are trying to paint the Apollo skeptics with so they should appair like kooks and so on.
Regarding the rover, looking at this picture ... http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-85-1...
I will ask, how did it get there without making any tracks in the sand? Looks like a paper is half buried in the sand there too. Was it put there by a crane or is the picture Photoshopped, or both?
The moon is made of cheese too
You may as well add that to your conspiracy theory.
I'd take a million dollar bet
that if replicated the apollo mission couldn't go land on the moon and come back with no flaws using 1969 technology which is nothing more than the computing power of a electronic wrist watch.
Hell we didn't even land drones on Mars successfully the first attempt and that is with today's technology. Not to mention that was a one way trip without human cargo.
I will grant them this.. I'm sure they could replicate the filming like they did the first time to stage the event.
Stanley Kubrik filmed all of the lunar episodes
We can NEVER go to the moooooon.
Never did.
Couldnt go there using the low-tech we had back in the late 60s and 70s..
isnt it rather strange that NO country plus us have ever gone back???
that isnt just happenstance.
This is just another fraud we the people have to get over. There are several more, but this one will take a few to adjust their thinking on the lies.
RB
Perhaps the first moon mission was faked
But how many times have we been to the moon? are you saying they have all been faked.Let me see the last we went to the moon was in 1976 when we left that moon boogie up there.It just seem highly unlikely to me we would or could have faked all our moon missions.
No, I never said any such thing
There is a link in the comments below to download the mp3. I thought most of the program focused on Apollo 15.
Real eyes realize real lies
2012, we want our country back
2012 is the year for Ron Paul!
MSM Report: http://www.msmreport.com/
Reasons to question Lunar Hoax
The Astronauts
1. Their reactions are always hostile and condescending. Several refused to swear on the Bible that they had been on the moon.
2. Neil Armstrong's eerie speech using parrots, which don't fly well and repeat what they're told, as an analogy, along with his admonition about "removing one of truth's protective layers".
3. Buzz Aldrin's bouts with booze and depression.
4. Grissom being killed after calling out NASA.
5. Armstrong has given almost no detailed interviews in the preceding 40 years.
6. Odd things said in transcripts, suggestive of a cover-up, and prompts from unknown speaker.
7. Apollo 13 emergency to revive interest (just like the Mars rock and Ida "missing link" when funding is up for vote).
Politics
8. Motive and political climate with cold war & space race with USSR.
9. Russia learned to monitor our flights in mid-70;s.
10. Russians still never on moon after 40 years.
11. No return since and no event matching.
12. NASA says will take 15 years to get back on moon. Took less than 9 in 60's without modern technology or experience.
Broadcast
13. No direct feed for media, only black & white projection screen.
14. NASA lost original moon landing footage. Being remade by Hollywood.
The Moon Trip
15. A letter 'C' engraved on a moon rock.
16. Shadows often going in wrong direction.
17. No disturbed dust under boosters
18. Unlikely camera shots.
19. Flag fluttering w/no breeze/atmosphere.
20. 1/4" aluminum holding vacuum. I work on a machine that requires a near-vacuum. It is 3 inch thick steel and still doesn't always hold a decent vacuum.
21. Van Allen radiation danger. No other missions beyond VA belt.
22. No stars in photos.
23. Photographic equipment never adjusted to get photos of the stars from greatest vantage point ever.
24. No stars seen by astronauts despite lack of cloud cover and atmosphere.
25. Later book by Michael Collins contradicts and says he saw stars.
26. Porthole showing fraudulent view of earth, exposed by arm & light. This was clearly faked. Why would they fake this view if they had the real thing available?
Get professional help.
Several refused to swear on the Bible that they had been on the moon.
Oh, for crying out loud. When a nutcase gets in your face and demands that you jump through a hoop, should you do it? Hell, no! you should smack him like Buzz Aldrin did.
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
I wonder if CSI's Grissom is named after astronaught Grissom
Ron Paul is the great uniter, the income tax fighter...the military-supported, defender of the border...the political apathy solution and the champion of the Constitution! Doctor Paul is on-call!
My point
exactly. Indeed HUGE event the astronauts ought to still be dancing in the streets. They act like people with loads on their consciences. At least they have consciences unlike their buddies on the hill.
Just one last kick in the nuts, then a final deathblow
This is another side argument that makes DP un-palatable
for common folks.
When will we be "un-amazed" at Gov't Gaul -- we are looking for indisputable facts that gov't is corrupt; after awhile it sounds crazy.
We "know" gov't is corrupt but not because of Birther, Truther, Kennedy, the Moon, Chemtrails, or Flu Vaccines.
Gov't is "corrupt" because we-allow-it-to-be!!!
We the People (have dropped the ball)
If 10M practiced Counter-Economics we'd have the Free-Society (less control of the Navy, Army, and Air Force Arsenal) we want within 3 to 6 months.
10M is the tipping point -- after that everyone starts to practice it; by the rule-of-nine in marketing.
10M becomes 90M -- 90M becomes 810M (the world)
The efficiency advantages to C-E are so great that everyone must practice or starve.
You guys have not meditated on this though I've posted it 100 times.
Read carefully and think about "the effect" (globally - nationally - locally)
10M C-E Consumer-Individualists
1) Buy Only (as much as possible) Local Products and Services
2) Hire Under-the-Table (as much as possible)
3) Work Under-the-Table (as much as possible -- more and more)
4) Buy Organic and Free-Range Produce and Meat
5) Get rid of all big assets: Houses, Cars, RVs -- anything they could leverage against you
6) Get rid of all debt funded assets: stocks, bonds, CD's, mutual funds
7) Buy precious metal and bury it (no record of it)
8) Start a seed bank (produce - grains - fruit - marijuana)
9) Rent or Lease everything (until gov't is toppled)
10) At this point declare bankruptcy on all remaining debt (C-E's never use credit again) -- think of this effect, simultaneous large-scale bankruptcy!
11) On products/services you can't get local -- form a consumer union and organize a "serious" no-dollar-vote day. Then go to the corporation in question and say, "stop lobbying or we stop buying" -- at this point switch to an alternative product (and threaten that organization -- "quit lobbying or we go back").
12) Never Vote or Lobby again
There's more but you get the idea.
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*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Yes an interesting idea and one worth pursuing
I wonder though how many are already doing this?
I'm already living according to 1,2,3,4,6,7,8.
My house and car are paid for and I wouldn't see any reason to give them up and start renting and leasing. Could you maybe explain that a bit more? (5 & 9) The fact that I own a house and car outright (not that the car is necessary a bicycle would do) allows me to do the other things on the list, as well as live with as little need for money as possible.
Working under the table (#3) puts a serious strain on earnings. Thus having to do that while renting and leasing (which is just throwing money out the window with no improvement to yourself) are to me effectively mutually exclusive. Perhaps if you were referring to people who still owe notes on their houses or people contemplating borrowing for a house or a car, I could see your point. But again there, generally ownership is cheaper than leases & rents, especially in the long run. Renting and leasing also leaves you beholden and at the mercy of the landlord/dealer.
I have no problem with #10, but no reason or need to do so personally as I don't have any debt. I am an advocate of a full absolution nation-wide on debt. There is some historical evidence that such has been necessary in the past. (long before the U.S.) Wiping the slate clean would do wonders for our economy. (as long as we simultaneously returned to real dollars instead of bank paper for currency)
#11 sounds fine too, though it certainly would take the concentrated effort of at least 10 million.
#12 I have argued for at times, but as long as I have a real candidate to select in a race, I will exercise the option. I will also show up to vote down every tax increase and bond issue that is put before the voters. And I will campaign against all such bad measures. I don't vote in races where there is only a Republican and Democrat, or where the other options are not satisfactory. I think that as long as we have this available as a peaceful means of resistance/change then we are obligated to take it. To force a situation where only force is left to us as a defense is not appropriate to me. If violence comes anyway then so be it, but I will not encourage it or advocate it early.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on these points.
Sam: If you work under-the-table and the Gov't finds out
the IRS can leverage your assets against you -- or confiscate them.
If I were speaking before 10M "willing" C-E practicioners I would say -- Sell all your assets; buy tradeable goods, start a seed bank, buy gold / precious metals.
As the dollar crashes so do all dollar-based-assets.
Gold/Silver and Seeds rise dynamically with a crashing dollar.
C-E will not only bring the change the fastest, but it will maintain it -- the C-E practicioners will also be sitting the prettiest because of the asset conversion.
This is a renters market (by the by) -- It will be that way until we have sound currency.
In a Free-Society there are ZERO EMPLOYEES there are only Sub-Contractors (everyone is working "under-the-table"). The latter is true because to have a free-society you must never tax the worker or owner (directly or indirectly) -- the owner can be asked to "pass thru" the consumer sales-tax.
Only the individual has rights and only the individual should be taxed -- the individual is the consumer. Ultimately and over a long enough transition there will be no need for any taxes.
Working under the table will be an issue for many -- but I turned 5 departments at 5 Fortune 200's into "self-employeed" sub-contractors.
Benefited the Corp and the Workers.
Every department of every corporation can function independently -- how do you think they "offshore" whole divisions.
Corporations must escape all the worker-taxes -- less salary (salary that is non-unionized is easy to handle and fluxuate as needed): Insurance, Liability, Benefits. Soc. Sec. If they sub-contract they pay none of these and it's legal.
#12 -- Voting and Lobbying is why we are in the mess we are in.
----To Vote is to abdicate or steal ones own or anothers liberty
----To Lobby is to buy the voting of another
The first biggest "evil" is when we live outside of C-E and the second biggest "evil" is when we vote or lobby.
Now -- that being said I voted most of my adult life -- by "evil" I mean "dynamic-movement away from"
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*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
I agree strongly with those
I agree strongly with those principles. Although it has little to do with your title. The moon landing is just one example how the public has become disenfranchised and distrustful of the government. Being the group of free-thinkers that we are, it's only natural that many of us will wish to discuss issues like these. There's no way to seperte the two, save banning these topics, which will go against the sites principals. So we should all just get used to them, because they're not going anywhere.
willofthewarrior: I'm not talking about "banning"
I'm presenting a position -- that these pie-in-the-sky (oh me oh my the sky is falling) doomsday evil gov't scenarios serve to divide people and not unite.
The truth on any ONE topic if known with an absolute certainty is not "unifying" -- never before in history has Americans distrusted their Gov't as much as they do now, yet there is no unity.
Consumer Counter-Economics (C-E) is a United Effort -- done consciously on the internet yet quietly locally (there are no meetings).
My point is that JFK - Lunar Hoax - Birthers-R-Us none of them produce a "movement," they are solitary complaints, investigations, or accusations that require one definitive solution.
C-E is a movement that will destroy the root cause of all these lesser accusations. It also does not result in chaos or martial law.
The Bankers - The Lobbyist - The Politician - The Corporatist get all their power from the Consumer (if you reduce the sauce long enough).
Therefore the solution must be consumer based.
In a free-society the ONLY "healthy" long-run union is a consumer union
----The Power of the Daily Dollar Vote.
Consumer-Sovereignty was Mises war cry -- Not Workers nor Owners and definitely not Conspiracy Theorists.
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*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
I'm not arguing against your
I'm not arguing against your philosophy. In fact, I agree with almost all of it (save maybe 12). It's a new concept for me, but all of it strikes me as beneficial, even crucial to dethroning our tyranical rulers.
What I'm saying is that topics like the lunar landing will never go away. Nor should they. And we don't even need to agree on them. They are issues that are of concern and interest to many of us, and many of us wish to understand them better. And issues like these can be discussed and debated, even while we practice counter-economics.
So though I believe your post greatly deserves its own thread, it does not belong in this one.
Willofthewarrior: Agreed!
Though it seems un-necessary since I never said ban any post -- that being said, my topic is very relevant on this post since one of the conclusions (oft repeated on all "sky is falling threads") is that "gov't is doing this/that to me"
My argument is that the gov't has no power we don't first give it -- that our methods of moving towards liberty are out-dated (never worked once in al of human history), and that if "getting there" (to liberty) is the impitous of such threads than we should go with what Mises argued; "to live as though we are free now" -- Counter-Economics.
I'm glad you agree with it -- #12 huh?
Voting and Lobbying is how people abdicate or steal their own or others authority -- Voting is giving or taking it away and Lobbying is purchasing it.
There can never be a righteous vote -- the sheer act of voting propagates perpetual war (revolution).
If you want abortion (vote for it) and I do not (vote against it) -- that creates a unionization of opposites in a non-consumer area -- thus theft and abdication will ensue.
I will 'abdicate' by putting someone in office who will give me my abortion-liberty while you will lobby to have it stolen -- abdication and theft are the root of every war: Welfarism (abdication) and Militarism (theft)
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*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Very interesting concept...
I'm not sure of the numbers of timeframe, but the concept is interesting.
If 10 million people 'drop-out' of the economy you think it will fall apart? Seriously? In this consumer-based nonsense we declared an economy, I don't think 10M would do enough damage to topple anything by merely buying locally, paying cash, working under the table,etc.... hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that many were doing this already in one for or another!
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
LastAmerican: I meant as an internet movement
If 10,000,000 on the internet got into C-E (Counter-Economics) as I spelled out above, then by the "rule of 9" from Marketing 101 a snowball effect would occur.
One might say if 10K got into C-E (as an internet movement) the most potent bloggers -- then you'd get 10M -- then you'd get 90M -- then you'd get 810M (the world).
You are correct if 10M, spread across America, silently did this it would not be enough; but if it were a Voluntary Consumer Union (nameless as individuals yet very vocal over the internet) then it would take off.
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*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
bump
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
bump
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
1/6 Gravitational field
Read that there is 1/6th of the gravity on the moon that there is on earth. So a 180 lb. person on Earth will weigh 30 lbs. on the Moon. This supposedly also explains why astronauts bounced high when they "walked" on it. But why wouldn't dust & pebbles/small rocks float away? Seems that the gravity there would be too weak to hold them down.
Another thing that was always troublesome was the picture of the U.S. flag on there. Why would it be rippling? According to experts there is no atmosphere, much less air on the moon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Buzz_salutes_the_U.S._Flag...
Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica
Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica
Remember that Galileo guy?
Remember that Galileo guy? The one that showed that all objects fall at the same rate, at least in a vacuum. One of the lunar astronauts, I forget which one and am too lazy to look it up, repeated that experiment on the moon, dropping a hammer and a feather and showing that they hit the ground at exactly the same time.
One of the consequences is that any object, from a spec of dust to the lunar module, must reach the same velocity to escape the moon's gravitational field. In the case of the moon, that velocity is 2.4 km/sec or about 5200 MPH in local money. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Secondly, "floating" is a function of fluid dynamics, not gravity (Note: weightlessness is not floating, it is a constant state of free fall). IOW there must be a medium for a object to float in, otherwise it is entirely at the mercy of gravity. For all practical purposes the moon has no atmosphere and thus no medium in which to float.
Lastly, if it was a hoax, how did this stuff get there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_Experiment
Regards,
Eric
"Name something else that floats".
"Very small rocks"?
--The witch scene from Monte Python and the Holy Grail
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
— Ed Howdershelt
the absence of a blast crater under the lunar module
To solve this hammer and feather problem in a studio, all you have to do is try over and over again until you get it right. 100 or 200 attempts will surly be enough. Cannot find the YT video where this was demonstrated on a parking lot.
How did NASA put the laser retroreflector on the Moon? Maybe the same way as the Soviets placed their similar Lunokhod 2 there? Watch on YT:
MoonFaker: LRO, Laser Retroreflector Oddity
But what is you take on the absence of a blast crater under the lunar module?
You might want to watch MoonFaker: No Crater part 1 to 5 on YT: http://tinyurl.com/ykzbudr (Part 1 from 04:43)
Basic physics, not conspiracy theory
Point 1 - The reference to the dropping of a hammer and feather on the moon was used to demonstrate a basic principle of physics, not as evidence that we went to the moon. Whether it was done in an evacuated chamber and shown with a slowed down camera frame rate, or really done on the moon, it shows the same principle. Specifically that gravity applies to all objects equally, regardless of size. The actual rate of fall is irrelevant, the fact that they hit the ground at the same time is what matters.
Point 2 - It is not my intent to get into debunking "argument by anomaly" conspiracy theories, however the absence of a crater is an easy one. The LEM's rocket produced about 3000 lbs of force and had a nozzle size of 2290 sq. in. Simple math results in 1.3 lbs of force per sq. in. exiting the nozzle. It then spreads out over a much larger area depending on the height above the moon's surface. It also spreads out into a larger cone at a given height relative to the Earth due to the absence of an atmosphere.
So in the end, you are talking about no more than a few ounces of force per sq. in. on the moon's surface. Just exactly how do you expect a crater to result from that? See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbhgPIM3tsE&feature=youtube_g...
Lastly, the point about the "Lunar Ranging Experiment" is that there are a number of observatories around the world having the capability to see the reflected laser signals from the retro reflectors left by the US Apollo missions (3) and Soviet Lunokhod missions (2 but exact location of one is not known). This has been going on for forty years, not only in the US, but France and the USSR / Russia among others.
How exactly was this conspiracy maintained with the Soviets / Russians not only through the cold war, but even through a change in government?
Oh yea, I guess these are fakes too? :)
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/a...
Regards,
Eric
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
— Ed Howdershelt
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
— Ed Howdershelt
You're breaking Newton's second Law
With the Rocket equation. It dosen't just spread out. An object set in motion will remain in motion until acted upon by another object.
Nice try tho do you get paid well to copy and paste malarke?
Huh?
I would like to make a cogent response, but I can't figure out what you are trying to say, well excepting the ad hominem. I got that part. :)
For a start, I think you meant Newton's first law.
In the absence of force, a body either is at rest or moves in a straight line with constant speed.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion
If you mean the rocket's propellant, the propellant follows the form of the nozzle, which is conical. Any individual quantum of propellant does observe Newton's first law, however the propellant does not originate from a single point, nor does it follow the same or parallel paths. Thus a conical emission of propellant is entirely consistent with Newton's first law.
Stated differently, if I read you right, you are effectively saying that the wide dispersal setting on a garden hose nozzle violates Newton's first law.
Regards,
Eric
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
— Ed Howdershelt
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
— Ed Howdershelt
.
Object in motion will remain in motion until acted upon by another force.
Only thing between the booster and the ground was NOTHING. Regardless of the shape of the nozzle. Rockets weren't made to wide spread dispersal. The were coned to force in a certain direction.
So yeah, It's one sixths earths gravity which means the force to push the lander up while descending would be enough to cause a crater.
I don't know why I said second law.