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'our' constitution

http://www.taroscopes.com/miscellanous-pages/weapons-additio...

please have a read of this well documented article by Michael Tsarion...

like Hamlet said, "things are not always what they seem''...

we may be barking up the wrong tree touting the constitution...
serious discussion needed...thanks



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meekandmild's picture

"We The People" should have the constitutional authority to

force government to follow the constitution to the letter.

I am more inclined to side with Lysander Spooner than Ron Paul

but Lysander Spooner is dead and Ron Paul is here to lead at least in the right direction, less government.

Spooner said something to the effect that if the Constitution was written with the intent to allow what has come to be Constitutional, then it is an evil document, and if it was written with the intend to prevent what has come, then it is a worthless document. In either case it is not something to be revered; and that was back in the 1840's. If he were alive today I am sure he would puke.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

I recently took a class on

I recently took a class on the history of the making of the constitution. I was fairly stunned to learn that the constitutional convention was basically a coup of the current power structure at the time. They were only authorized to improve the Articles at Philadelphia. They were not authorized to completely rewrite the federal hierarchy and create our current constitution. Imagine if a group of powerful men met in secret for 5 months in our current times and then emerged with a completely new system for financial trade and currency exchanges. That is equivalent to what happened with the articles and the constitution.

imagine?

affirmation: President Paul 2008
" Imagine if a group of powerful men met in secret for 5 months in our current times and then emerged with a completely new system for financial trade and currency exchanges. That is equivalent to what happened with the articles and the constitution."

It happens all the time now... remember the G20, Bilderberg, the federal reserve??? jhalsey

affirmation: President Paul 2008

Authorized by who?

The founders declared themselves free { As in free to make their own decisions } in 1776.

The founders wrote the articles of confederation. Couldn't they authorize themselves to write a better set of laws called the U.S. Constitution ?

beesting

The congressional congress

The congressional congress gave authorization for the meeting, but the intent was to improve the current articles not to completely rewrite the federal system. Thus, many of the anti federalists cried foul when the federalists emerged from the meeting and said this is how we fix the system and we need to vote up/down on our proposal now or else the whole world is going to end.

And the writers alternate form of government is ? ? ?

Monarchy, Dictatorship, Tribal law, Communism, Anarchy, Religious law?? etc. etc.

Please read the first 10 Amendments to the supreme law of the land, ratified in 1791 and see if any other type of government before or after 1791 gave the people these same rights.

I personally feel the founders did the best they could after shedding the bonds of monarchy. How many countries around the world declared Independence and wrote their own Constitutions after 1791 ?????
Did the bonds of monarchy eventually loosen its grip on their claimed
far flung lands across the world, with the fall of the original 13 colonies ? ? ?

How many born in America Americans feel the Queen of England is their lord and master ? ? ? Or the King of Saudi Arabia??? Mr. Obama ?

Ron Paul is my President !

beesting

our con

affirmation: President Paul 2008

all well and good, but the point is that we are still ruled by the elite and it is built into the language and the wording of the constitution....jhalsey

affirmation: President Paul 2008

No !

We the people elected Senators and Congress people that didn't do their job of enforcing all those that took an oath to uphold the Constitution.

If enforced the Constitution is supposed to limit the power of Government, why do you think Ron Paul has acquired such a large group of supporters?

Because he is educating anyone in the country that will listen, and many more people than before the primaries are now listening.

Ron Paul in 2012 !

beesting

beesting

affirmation: President Paul 2008

you did not read the article, read it and back to me... jhalsey

affirmation: President Paul 2008

The constitution is flawed

The constitution is flawed because it has allowed amendments which convert it from a representational republic into a democracy. By allowing vagabonds and paupers to vote, it has ensured that socialism will result. It went from the sovereigns controlling the government to the government enticing the self enslavement of the sovereign. The Constitution has allowed the government to prevent the relief that is granted in the prior organic documents of this country, the North-West Ordinance, the Articles of Confederation, and the Declaration of Independence. The constitution has been impotent to prevent the replacement of Article III courts with Article IV executive tribunals. I am with Lysander Spooner on this issue. The Constitution was designed to destroy the sovereignty of Americans, or it was impotent to prevent their enslavement, either way, it is inferior to the other organic documents in terms of liberty and checks on centralization.

However, since this government has achieved such magnitude, it behooves all who love liberty to use its tyrannical actions as lessons to teach the uneducated masses. The vast majority of this country would not accept the principles of secession (there is no inherent violence in secession, only in the repression thereof) laid out in the DI, they are not prepared to accept market solutions for their problems out of fear as would be required for government compatible with the Articles of Confederation, and they do not understand the protections provided by the North-West Ordinance against federal encroachments. And they like it this way. Rahm may be right, we can't let the federal government's bumbling actions at every "emergency" go to waste. We must use them to show how the initiation of force against non-aggressors is counterproductive to the interests of the common man and inherently evil.

republic

An improved articles of confederation.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

On the small amount of research I've done,,

The Articles of Confederation was written by those that still believed in a monarchy and wanted George Washington to assume the position of King Washington.

Hamilton, Madison, Washington, Robert Morris, and others fought for a "Centralized" government and a central bank.

In 1791 there was a compromise made with John Adams, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, Roger Sherman, and other "Libertarian" leaning founders to approve a central bank for a limited time to get a majority and eventual unanimous signing of the 3 part U.S. Constitution we now use as a restraint on government power.

The original central bank charter eventually was not renewed and the Libertarian leaning founders had won a great battle until 1913 when a new central bank was formed !

A person can govern themselves with money that is not under the control of a central bank.

End the Fed !

beesting

Ideally the Declaration is the supreme law of the land.

What is needed now is Sovereign States who create a weak central government with strict mandates, even less than the constitution.

Your story does not make sense, considering that Washington was never President under the Articles of Confederation. If they wanted him to be a King then naturally wouldn't being President be the first logical step?

I reserve the right to govern myself.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

You are right, but please read this.

{snip} "The Articles were replaced by the US Constitution on June 21, 1788."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation.

I don't have a link but from what I've read, making Washington a King was discussed.

beesting

The Address and Reasons of

The Address and Reasons of Dissent of the Minority of the Convention of the State of Pennsylvania to their Constituents.

"As this government will not enjoy the confidence of the people, but be executed by force, it will be a very expensive and burthensome government. The standing army must be numerous, and as a further support, it will be the policy of this government to multiply officers in every department: judges, collectors, tax-gatherers, excisemen and the whole host of revenue officers will swarm over the land, devouring the hard earnings of the industrious. Like the locusts of old, impoverishing and desolating all before them."

Full text here:
http://www.consource.org/index.asp?bid=582&documentid=851

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Lets face it, the average Amerikan is an idiot..
-Ira Freeman

...let it not be said that we did nothing.
-Ron Paul

Excellent read so far.

I've been searching for a clear cut explanation of this and I think i've finally found it.

Thank you!

I reserve the right to govern myself.

I reserve the right to govern myself.