Question. Would you swear an oath that you fully intended to break?
I have been on the FIJA websight and watching some of its videos http://fija.org/document-library/videos/ and they keep bringing up that the judge is going to make you swear to uphold the law as it is given. I can tell you right now I can not do that.
1. I know that you are not guilty of breaking the law unless you break all aspects of it. I know that a judge can happily read half the law to you therefore making a new law (pulled right out of his butt). So if he gives you only half the law you just swore an oath to convict the defendant. (for instance the hovind case)
2. the law may be unlawful.
3. The law may go against my conscience.
4. I may see the judge being biased against the defense, or the defense attorney not doing his job at all (especially in the case of a court appointed attorney) and I tell you right now if I see either of these I will be casting my ballet as not guilty and raising some hell about it afterwards.
what are the dpers thoughts on this?
Judges, Attorneys, ect
Take an oath to the Bar BEFORE they take an oath to the constitution. Which one do you think they will uphold. Every d@mn stinking one of them hands are dirty from the fraud of operating under the color of the law. Which in essence is NOT LAW. It is contractual. Which they don't bother telling you about your whole slave life. Be careful people. Do not blindly follow anyone who tells you to stay IN the system and play it. There are many people out there doing this. This is not what The MOST HIGH wants for his people. The MOST HIGH says come out of her my people. We are running out of time.
The Citizens rulebook
handbook for jurors
http://www.famguardian.org/Publications/CitRulebook/rulebook...
Handy rule book,
Handy rule book, thanks.
grant
Are you talking about
Are you talking about Constitutional laws, Common Law, or corporate statutes or regulations created out of thin air by an unelected bureaucrat?
exactly my point
it appears to me that this oath they have you take is created out of thing air by a bureaucrat (the judge, although I think a lot of them are elected), so that they can weed out anybody that is for jurors rights. So if I take the oath, I am a liar, because I am going to do my duty as a citizen. More to the point I find it interesting that all the videos say that you should not tell the other jurors that your problem is with the law itself.
Subterfuge and Guile...
...are as legitimate a response to danger or tyranny as is violence.
Promises extracted under duress have no moral authority.
LXXI BC: Ego sum Spartacus // MDCCCLVII: I am Dred Scott // MCMVL: Ich bin Anne Frank // MMX: Je suis Assange // MMXI: Ik ben von NotHaus
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Your only allegiance in a coutroom is to your conscience.
Laws come and go.... and sometimes for the wrong reasons.
Don't worry....if the judge doesn't like the verdict, he'll just throw it out and do as he pleases anyway.
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I asked the wrong question
A few years ago I went to serve jury duty in lower Manhattan NYC at the court house down by City Hall. I was seated on a jury for a guy who was accused of murder, carrying a concealed weapon, and some other things (I don't remember exactly). So the judge sat us there in the box and explained it was our duty to carry out the law according to his instructions. There was no oath. Then he asked if anybody had any questions. The exchange went like this:
Me: Um, what are we supposed to do if we disagree with the law?
Judge: (dismissive) That shouldn't be an issue in this case. The law against murder is nothing new and should be easily understood by all.
Me: Um, so I'm not understanding the answer. What are we supposed to do if we disagree with the law?
Judge: (starting to get pissed) The laws in this case have been on the books forever. What are you specifically asking about.
Me: Well, the guy is accused of carrying a concealed weapon.
Judge: (pissed off) Yes, and that's a crime in the state of New York.
Me: That's not a crime.
Judge: (livid) Yes it is.
Me: No it isn't.
Prosecuting Attorney: (waves his hand to dismiss me)
Judge: (livid) Get out of my courtroom. You're dismissed. Go home.
The pool of alternate jury members were sitting in the seats behind the two attorney desks. Not one of them said anything while this was going on. They all sat there silently while this happened and then watched me get up and walk out of the courtroom as if they were waiting for a commercial to end so they could get back to their TV show.
I'd still like to get the official answer to my question. I have a feeling there isn't an official answer. This is an area where both sides (judges and citizens) do what they can get away with. In hindsight I should've kept my mouth shut.
Best not to swear to anything.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/110911
People take oaths before God when they get married "until death do part".
Every time a person signs a tax return they are submitting to the crime of perjury if the information provided is not true.
Why would we expect someone to be telling the truth when they take an oath to the Constitution?
You know a tree by it's fruit.
grant
Been asked to do jury duty twice
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
I have never done jury duty once. I don't trust the system, and I will not be a part of ruining someone's life based on a faulty system.
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
You could disclose your convictions to the judge...
They would probably remove you from the jury (or not select you for one) - and no harm done to your conscience.
I've never been selected to be on an actual jury...
...but I fully believe in No Victim = No Crime
If you did not infringe on another persons life, liberty, or property, then you are not guilty.Period. I don't really care what the idiot in the black robe says.
I agree
but when the judge sweetly ask you to swear to uphold the law as he reads it are you going to say yes I swear. Or are you going to accidentally say hell no?
I firmly believe in The Law...
...and the only way to break the Law is to infringe upon another person's life, liberty, or property. That's it. I would gladly swear to uphold the Law.
Have you
been selected?
no
but when I am I want to know what to do. I fully believe in preperation. It may never ever happen. But chances are that even if I am not selected someone else will be and This will be good information to chew on.
Its kinda like karate. I take it to some extent so that if I ever get in a fight I will know exactly what to do, because if I wait to the fight to learn how to fight I am in trouble. I am the type of person who wants to know what is going on before I jump in and their are many things I may be forced to jump into whether I like it or not so I am determined to learn something about it before I take the dive.
That's a good idea -
You're right, it is best to be prepared. In my experience, the prosecutor will briefly interview you on the stand during the selection process. This will be so that both sides can determine whether they want to dismiss you or select you. They might ask you whether you have a problem with the death penalty, for example. Or with convicting someone of drug crimes. Or whether you have ever been a victim of a crime. At this point you can disclose why you might differ with the laws as they are currently enforced, or volunteer any other personal conflict you might foresee having with the case.