White House Says No ‘Veracity’ to Argument That Forcing Individuals to Buy Health Insurance Is Unconstitutional
White House Says No ‘Veracity’ to Argument That Forcing Individuals to Buy Health Insurance Is Unconstitutional
Thursday, October 29, 2009
By Fred Lucas, Staff Writer
(CNSNews.com) – White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs told CNSNews.com on Wednesday that there is no "veracity" to the argument that the U.S. Constitution does not authorize the federal government to force individuals to buy health insurance.
The Congressional Budget Office has said that the federal government has never before in American history forced Americans to purchase any good or service.
When the health-care bill was being debated in the Senate Finance Committee, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), the former chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, raised questions about the constitutionality of forcing Americans to buy health insurance, which all congressional versions of the health care bill would do.
Hatch rejected the notion that the Commerce Clause--which empowers Congress to regulate commerce "among the several states"--justifies forcing Americans to purchase a product they do not want to buy. If Congress can make people buy health insurance, Hatch argued, they can force Americans to buy refrigerators or new cars.
But Gibbs said those who make this kind of argument have no federal court cases to back them up.




















If it comes down to it, they'll just make it a credit
If somehow someone prevails in a court case overthrowing this provision as being unconstitutional, then they'll just rewrite it by raising taxes for everyone and offering a tax credit for those who purchase insurance. This would be indistinguishable from something Ron Paul might advocate (except for the raising taxes part).
Sen. Hatch: Obamacare Mandate 'Not Constitutionally Sound' VID
Sen. Hatch: Obamacare Mandate 'Not Constitutionally Sound'
http://cnsnews.com/cnsnewstv/v/Gd6USU6UkU
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of course they dont have
of course they dont have court cases to back them, no one has tried this shit before.
Ventura 2012
Nuff said
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
Napolitano: "We need Ron Paul now!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k3JNRTVI0Q
Since when do they
care about the Constitution?
I expect the ...
criminal congress will jam ObamaCare down our throats whether we like or or not. I also expect there will be many legal challenges to come as well. I think the states have a good 10th Amendment argument. This thing is going to get ugly.
So the White house is saying they are willing to lie?
Definition: Veracity 1. Unwillingness to tell lies.
White House Says No ‘Veracity’ to Argument That Forcing Individuals to Buy Health Insurance Is Unconstitutional
No Unwillingness to tell lies. (‘Veracity’) meaning the WH is willing to tell lies?
Good catch!
Good catch!
...
:)
.
Gibbs says
a lot of things, but as is usually the case, never backs them up with facts. To say that forcing the people to purchase health insurance is not unconstitutional implys that the reverse is true. That it is constitutional.
Balderdash!
Show us the part of the constitution authorizing the federal government to be engaged in such outlandish activity Mr. Gibbs. We're waiting.
still waiting ................
BUMP!
Bump...
I'll be back...once I dig up that research I once did on the Commerce Clause. My first impression is that such a requirement DOES violate this part of the Constitution, and I believe there are Supreme Court cases which can be used to refute it.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
Get on them...
you always seem to find the best evidence.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
"No federal court case to back them up"?
The Constitution does not authorize the federal gov't to require the American people to purchase health insurance.
Why would there already need to have been a court case?
To even suggest such a thing implies the gov't has authority to do anything it wants unless disputed.
HAVE U NOTICED - WHEN GOV WANTS TO BLOCK US IN COURT
it's usually over "LACK OF STANDING" ---- Why do we have "LACK OF STANDING" most likely it is because SLAVES normally don't get "STANDINGS" do they?
Standing...
Yes, unfortunately, you are right...persons who believe their constitutional rights have been violated still have to show they have standing to bring suit--and I believe they have to locate the proper federal statute to establish standing.
Obviously, it's better to point out constitutional issues with this legislation BEFORE it has a chance to pass. Better to alter the bill or vote it down before it becomes law.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
Jiminy Cricket...
I both agree and disagree...the government should not have the authority to do whatever it wants. If the powers of Congress are to be limited by the Constitution, such limits should be determined by the most conservative interpretation.
However, the Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8) is overly succinct and notoriously fuzzy, being only 16 words long: Congress shall have power to "regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." Over the years, the Supreme Court has interpreted the Commerce Clause in wildly divergent ways. In some cases, the Court has given Congress almost unlimited power to regulate all interstate commerce--to the exclusion of the states--but, in other cases, the federal and state governments are seen as having mutually exclusive, separate rights to regulate commercial activity. And this isn’t even a complete representation of the interpretations that the Supreme Court has offered. Here's a link to a good article on this:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/stat...
The proposal to mandate all Americans to purchase health insurance can similarly be defended or undermined using the Commerce Clause. Particularly at question would be persons who decide either not to purchase health insurance or who pay for health services out of pocket.
A case justifying the requirement might be Wickard v. Filburn (1942). Unbelievably, the Court held that a farmer who grew wheat on his own property--for his own exclusive use--was a threat to interstate commerce and therefore violated federal agricultural regulations. If other farmers did the same thing, the Court reasoned, they would not need purchase wheat on the open market, which would have an impact on interstate economies and commerce. It is not much of a logical leap to think that large numbers of people who choose not to buy health insurance would have a similar impact.
Andrew Napolitano, in an editorial for the Wall Street Journal, cites a Supreme Court case that would invalidate Obama's proposal for an individual mandate to buy health insurance. In U.S. v. Lopez (1995), a public school student was charged with violating a federal law, the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990. The student appealed the conviction, saying that this law was unconstitutional under the Commerce Clause--and the conviction was overturned by the Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. The Supreme Court upheld this decision, saying that the statute was “a criminal statute that by its terms has nothing to do with “commerce” or any sort of economic enterprise, however broadly one might define those terms" (U.S. v Lopez). As Napolitano points out, the primary work of physicians and other health care professionals is to heal the sick, and is not at its heart a commercial activity--so it may be argued that federal regulation of health insurance and healthcare is unconstitutional.
There may be yet other constitutional issues with the individual mandate proposal. The Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies points out that some people may not choose to buy insurance for religious reasons. Requiring them to do so would be violate their free exercise of religion under the First Amendment. It is even more troubling to consider that this proposal may represent the unconstitutional "taking" of property; under the Fifth Amendment, persons cannot be "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."
Although I have not found this explicitly stated, this kind of requirement shows a disregard for state sovereignty, something which is supposed to be protected under the Tenth Amendment. I believe this is what Rehnquist, quoting an earlier Supreme Court case in U.S. v. Lopez, was trying to say when he alluded to Wickard v. Filburn and similar cases. He voices concern that Congress could have too much power in the regulation of commerce between the states; its power “may not be extended so as to embrace effects upon interstate commerce so indirect and remote that to embrace them…would effectually obliterate the distinction between what is national and what is local and create a completely centralized government” (U.S. v. Lopez). This scenario is downright chilling.
Of course, if our representatives and senators were required to show constitutional justification for all the bills they wrote, we might not have this disaster to contend with…
Napolitano’s editorial:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020391730457441...
United States v. Lopez:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-1260.ZO.html
Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies, “Constitutional Implications of an “Individual Mandate” in Health Care Reform:
http://www.fed-soc.org/doclib/20090710_Individual_Mandates.pdf
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
Thank you for the info, amica.
Perhaps I was oversimplifying things.
I'm not sure, though, how any honest person could ever derive "require Americans to purchase things" from the words "regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".
The example with the wheat farmer is sheer madness. I hope such a thing does not pave the way for the insurance scheme.
Wheat, insurance....why stop there?
Thanks for posting that info. It gave me a peek at the inner workings of the machine that I was not really seeing when I posed my question above.
Is this any different than
Is this any different than any of the other tax incentives that they have to encourage various behaviors? I think it's all unconsitutional nonsense frankly, but I think the precedent to allow this has already been set.
Methinks the second
Methinks the second amendment was put in place specifically to deal with instances where those normally charged with interpreting the constitution, abrogates their responsibility to the extent of claiming that forcing people to buy stuff, against their will, from congressional campaign sponsors, is one of the Federal governments enumerated powers. Literally any idiot with basic reading comprehension can verify that this is not so. Yakking about case history is obviously irrelevant, as no government has gone quite this far in power usurpation yet.
Try getting Dr. Gary Null to buy american medical care.
Gary Null Exposes NWO Big Pharma and their Deadly Vaccines 1/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gavenB_AJ9A
Insanity is directly related to the distance from supernature.
Bureaucrats are severly detached from nature. (see tumors)
And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”
"Burglar says it's OK to take other people's stuff..."
Who ya gonna believe?
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
Save the forests, and legalize hemp
We're gonna need alot of tall oak trees, and plenty of good strong rope.
I'm with you.
I read a quote awhile back, by George W. Bush that was quoted something like,
"If the citizenry found out what we have done, they would take us out in the streets and hang us immediately."
(something like that)
And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”
Well, if they're looking for precedent...
in American history about the government forcing citizens to purchase goods or services they should just look back at the Stamp act and the tea tax - and then look at what that got good ole king George.
If they want to try the same play, the people can surely provide the same results.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
To the point
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
Napolitano: "We need Ron Paul now!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k3JNRTVI0Q
Define Veracity
Definition: Veracity
Veracity
Noun
1. Unwillingness to tell lies.
2. truthfulness : see Ron Paul ;)
-I favor extending to Israel the same honest friendship that Jefferson and the Founding Fathers urged us to offer to all nations. ...This means I also favor discontinuing foreign aid to governments that are actual or potential enemies of Israel,--Ron Paul
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
100.00% of the time Obama LIES! (or tells a half-truth)
Oh for honesty in government! We need Dr. Ron Paul NOW!
-I favor extending to Israel the same honest friendship that Jefferson and the Founding Fathers urged us to offer to all nations. ...This means I also favor discontinuing foreign aid to governments that are actual or potential enemies of Israel,--Ron Paul
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer