Question: Can a landlord prohitbit firearms on their rental property?

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Landlords cannot prohibit arms in Montana.

This bill has been passed and already signed by the governor into law.
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0228.htm

Section 6. Landlords and tenants -- no firearm prohibition allowed. A landlord or operator of a hotel or motel may not, by contract or otherwise, prevent a tenant or a guest of a tenant from possessing on the premises a firearm that it is legal for the tenant or guest to possess. A landlord or operator of a hotel or motel may prohibit the discharge of a firearm on the premises except in self-defense.

In addition:
Section 1. No duty to summon help or flee. Except as provided in 45-3-105, a person who is lawfully in a place or location and who is threatened with bodily injury or loss of life has no duty to retreat from a threat or summon law enforcement assistance prior to using force. The provisions of this section apply to a person offering evidence of justifiable use of force under 45-3-102, 45-3-103, or 45-3-104.

Section 8. Section 46-6-502, MCA, is amended to read:

"46-6-502. Arrest by private person. (1) A private person may arrest another when there is probable cause to believe that the person is committing or has committed an offense and the existing circumstances require the person's immediate arrest. The private person may use reasonable force to detain the arrested person.

(2) A private person making an arrest shall immediately notify the nearest available law enforcement agency or peace officer and give custody of the person arrested to the officer or agency."

Section 9. Justifiable use of force -- burden of proof. In a criminal trial, when the defendant has offered evidence of justifiable use of force, the state has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant's actions were not justified.

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0228.htm

Good find, I hate vague

Good find, I hate vague laws, because that could be destroyed in court. (Im just playing devils advocate, it's what I do:))
First, its "void for vagueness" as we cant determine the meaning, ie.
Without a comma after "landlord" it means:
"a landlord of a hotel or motel; OR an operator of a hotel or motel" Implying that it refers ONLY to hotels and motels which are businesses and DOES NOT affect the rights of a NON-business private residence being rented in a private capacity.

In order for it to apply to anything other than Hotels and Motels (Inns, Lodges, Bed & Breakfasts are included by the inclusion rule of law) it would have to be written this way: (notice the commas)
Section 6. Landlords and tenants -- no firearm prohibition allowed. A landlord of a property, or operator of a hotel or motel, may not, by contract or otherwise, prevent a tenant or a guest of a tenant from possessing on the premises a firearm that it is legal for the tenant or guest to possess. A landlord of a property, or operator of a hotel or motel, may prohibit the discharge of a firearm on the premises except in self-defense.

the way it is currently written, I BELIEVE, is to be confusing and to remove property rights...in its current state it would be as confusing as this example:
"A supervisor or a manager of a Mcdonalds or Burger King must wash his hands before returning to work." does this mean ANY supervisor or just one from BK or McD's?

secondly Montana annotated code of 2009 at section 70-24-311 says a "landlord" can "adopt rules" as long as it's for safety AND IT'S in writing:
70-24-311. Landlord authorized to adopt rules. (1) A landlord may adopt a rule concerning the tenant's use and occupancy of the premises. A rule is enforceable against the tenant only if:
(a) its purpose is to promote the convenience, safety, or welfare of the occupants in the premises, preserve the landlord's property from abusive use, or make a fair distribution of services and facilities held out for the tenants generally;
(b) it is reasonably related to the purpose for which it is adopted;
(c) it applies to all occupants in the premises in a fair manner;
(d) it is sufficiently explicit in its prohibition, direction, or limitation of the tenant's conduct to fairly inform the tenant of what the tenant must or must not do to comply;
(e) it is not for the purpose of evading the obligations of the landlord; and
(f) the tenant has notice of it at the time that the tenant enters into the rental agreement or when it is adopted.
(2) A rule adopted by a landlord must be in writing and must be given to each tenant residing on the premises and to each new tenant upon arrival.
(3) If a rule is adopted after a tenant enters into a rental agreement that works a substantial modification of the tenant's bargain, it is not valid until 7 days after written notice to the tenant in the case of a week to week tenancy or 30 days' written notice in the case of tenancies from month to month.

The fact is, when it comes to private property, the OWNER makes the rules, BECAUSE, you dont have to go there, thus it's avoidable, but a Private Property can limit rights, as long as its agreed upon.

I recently had a project

I recently had a project regarding this since I am going to school to be a reporter. My Media Trainer told that some states do allow landlords the right to prohibit firearms in the house. Other states, it's up to the government to decide. I think this can be a very big issue because some people don't feel safe without their firearm.

Here are my points

1. Property owners can decide what can be done or not done on their property

2. The renter\lessee does not have to sign the agreement.

3. By signing the agreement you can still have firearms just not on the rental property.

A Republic, If You Can Keep It

Jim: This is not true in Montana.

See above post.

You can contract any right

You can contract any right away as long as it's in a written document.

There are some things the government has decided to inject itself into, such as where it comes to Minimum Wage and such, but apart from those exceptions, you can sign away your liberty quite easilly.

Agreed!

I reserve the right to govern myself.

I reserve the right to govern myself.

I used to work for Dish

I used to work for Dish Network. We would have people call and try to get out of their satellite contract by saying that the landlord or apartment owner would not allow them to have a dish on the property.

We were instructed to advise that federal cases have dictated that a landlord or property owner can't tell you what to do on a piece of property that you rent. Regardless of the person who holds the deed, the person who pays the rent has full control of the property while they pay for it. So, we would tell people that they could place the dish on their porch or in a window so that it could see the satellite.

So in your case, I would say no. They can't tell you that you can't have weapons unless previously stipulated, and even then I'm not sure how much legal clout it would have.

...but if you sign a contract (lease) stating otherwise...

...you have given up that right.

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

Oh YOU guys!!!!! (hahahaha.... this is so much fun!)

You are right that the tenant would ONLY have a right to put the dish on the part of the property that THEY RENT. BUT....If they are in a multi-family building with no porch or balcony that is defined as THEIRS, they could NOT place the dish on the exterior walls or roof or grounds, which they are NOT renting, but merely have the enjoyment of, as those areas are still "owned" by the landlord.

So if a rental unit has no space in which you could place a dish and get service........ that's not the problem of the landlord unless the landlord guaranteed this service.

We used to have a problem all the time with tenants telling us that they COULD get a dish and we had nothing to say about it (based upon the stellar legal advise that they had gotten from the "dish" company salesman). We would tell them that yes, they could..... as long as it sat INSIDE their unit, which was the only part of the building that they were renting...... AND, if we found that HOLES had been drilled in OUR exterior walls or OUR roof, they would be responsible for the damages.

A few tenants didn't ask us first and had quite an expensive lesson ..... thanks to listening to the advice of a "dish" salesman. (no offense intended adam)
_________
A Man's Country Is Not A Certain Area Of Land,
Of Mountains, Rivers, And Woods,
But It Is A Principle......
And Patriotism Is Loyalty To That Principle .
- George William Curtis

Thomas Jefferson: “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

Viva La Revolucion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmaTNf4YhEs

I believe there is

some FCC regulation that makes it illegal to limit someone's access. I think there are SOME restrictions that are allowable, but you need to check with FCC for more information. We ran into the issue with our homeowners association.

We did too in a complex where we were living

In the end I believe that it turned out that if the Association must MAINTAIN an area (like the roofs, or the grounds), then it can restrict the placement of things on that area.... but what they could not do was restrict the homeowners from placing a dish out in open SIGHT of others homes, just because they thought it was ugly. As long as it was on the homeowner's property (that THEY maintain), OR a separate agreement is reached with the homeowner that THEY will PAY for damages incurred to a roof, etc. then it was OK. (But, I will admit this was about 10 years ago, so things could have changed for the worse)

My example above was regarding an apartment building, with ONE owner renting out to tenants.

_________
A Man's Country Is Not A Certain Area Of Land,
Of Mountains, Rivers, And Woods,
But It Is A Principle......
And Patriotism Is Loyalty To That Principle .
- George William Curtis

Thomas Jefferson: “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

Viva La Revolucion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmaTNf4YhEs

Your are partially correct

I, as landlord, can't prevent anyone from using a satelite service. However, I can prevent them from attaching it to the building. They are only allowed to put the dish on their patio/deck or in a window. They have no right to attach anything to the exterior of the building on set up a structure on the property without written permission to do so.

_________________
Want Ron Paul? Register Republican Now

Of Course.

The tenant and the landlord can agree to any restrictions they want.

_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

Yes, by adding that restriction to the lease contract

As mentioned below, if the tenant crossed it out it is no longer part of the contract. However, I, as the landlord, also sign the lease and only do so after it is returned with their signatures. If anything is changed that I don't agree with I don't sign it. Then the contract is not entered.

I don't have that restriction in my lease but I do have some other things that may be objectionable. For instance, I require my tenants to allow the drug dogs to enter their apartment if asked by the Sheriff. The Sheriff can't really do it without their permission but if they don't then I evict them for breach of contract. Some of you may not like this provision, and I understand why, but it is my property, my rules. You don't like it go somewhere else. I don't want the crime and headaches that comes with drug dealers. So far I haven't had to exercise this provision.

_________________
Want Ron Paul? Register Republican Now

Can we do the same thing

Can we do the same thing with our income tax forms?

Can we do the same thing

Can we do the same thing with our income tax forms?

You have the right to

You have the right to protect your property with any provision you want. ;)

If it's in writing and you

If it's in writing and you agree to it, yes. Also if you verbally agree. A verbal contract is still a contract.

Most states have

statutes that prohibit "verbal" real estate agreements.

A verbal agreement isn't

A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

WOW...we

WOW...we agree!!:):)

however, a verbal agreement CAN be binding....for example, if you go into court, and the plaintiff alleges that you had a verbal agreement to cut down her tree for $500, then the judge ASKS you if it's true that you had a verbal agreement to cut the tree down for $500, and you say, "yes, but I wanted to use a chainsaw, and she said I had to use a handsaw", then you just confirmed the existence of the contract, NOW the only controversy is how the tree will be removed.

Thanks Julius. Every now

Thanks Julius. Every now and then I get into a contract-related conversation. Many people think just because a contract is not in writing it doesn't count and is not a contract. This is untrue. If the four components needed to have a contract are present, none of which have anything to do with being in writing, you have a contract.

Well then perhaps in those

Well then perhaps in those states a verbal contract doesn't hold up.

Real Estate Law

is unique to itself and is usually very specific. For example many people believe the three day rule about backing out of a contract applies to real estate and in most if not all states it does not.

he can put it in the lease

he can put it in the lease agreement, simply put a line through any part of the contract you dont agree with. From a legal standpoint, a renter has the same property rights as an owner. In other words the police can not prevent you from owning a gun.

Lastly, the landlord cant search or enter your rental property except for emergencies without 48 hours notice.

The Lease is a good point..... that is the CONTRACT

between the two people. The property owner sets out the rules. The prospective tenant's job is to decide if he/she can live under those rules, and then decides whether to agree to the contract.

Deciding to SIGN an agreement, and then BREAK the rules in secret.... in any other business, would be called "breach of contract" or "fraud". So the answer you gave in the first place is correct.... he can put it in the lease. Putting a line through that part that one doesn't agree to, would have to be APPROVED by the owner, and then that forms a NEW agreement. However, to AGREE to a set of rules, and then break those rules that you have agreed to, makes you less than honorable in your dealings with others.

_________
A Man's Country Is Not A Certain Area Of Land,
Of Mountains, Rivers, And Woods,
But It Is A Principle......
And Patriotism Is Loyalty To That Principle .
- George William Curtis

Thomas Jefferson: “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

Viva La Revolucion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmaTNf4YhEs

I just wanted to clear one small thing

when you say "would have to be APPROVED by the owner, and then that forms a NEW agreement",
his acceptance of the signed lease would be the approval.

In any contract, the signer can go through it, put a line through the parts he doesnt agree to, (the line has to be a visible line, you cant try to trick the extender) THEN, it is the duty of the extender of the contract to re-read the contract to make sure nothing was changed....if they fail to do this, the contract stands. However, at any point the extender learns of the change, the contract is voidable, NOT VOID, but voidable. he can take the steps to quit the contract as the "intent" element of the contract may be missing.