Help please! A vaccination "agnostic" needs religion...by November 13th
I understand the concept behind vaccination...it is supposed to stimulate the immune system. But when vaccines are made in mass quantities for millions of people, I find it plausible that things other than the virus itself are added that might make it dangerous to inject. So I am a vaccination "agnostic"...I haven't investigated this issue enough to know if I am for or against vaccination.
But now this isn't a theoretical question for me. I am a mom to two young daughters, and today I got a form from the Baltimore City Health Department concerning the H1N1 vaccine. The vaccine is voluntary, but the school is asking me to sign a form giving or denying consent by November 13th. If I deny consent, the City Health Department is asking me to explain why.
So, this agnostic needs some religion. Any information you can give would be appreciated. Thank you.
Burn A Copy Of Gary Null Speaking Out NYS Assembly Hearing
and give a 10 minute presentation and make them watch it.That will stifle them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5OuzB9L48
.
These 3 sites have tons of info.
http://www.theflucase.com/
http://childhoodshots.com/More_Resources.html
http://www.legitgov.org/flu_oddities.html.
.
http://www.ronpaulsingles.com/
Paper Ballots Hand Counted At The Precinct Or Bust
Support WTP Federal Supreme Court Case To Ban All Electronic Voting Or Forget 2010 or 2012
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http://www.dailypaul.com/152976/diebold-vs-paper-ballots
http://www.ncel.w4sp.com/
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
http://www.votefraud.org/
http://www.hulu.com/hacking-democracy
Here is all the info you
Here is all the info you need: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/113351
It's late, I'm tired, but thank you, everyone
for giving me some info to think about. Hopefully you knew I meant "agnostic" and "religion" in a figurative sense. I'm not afraid of offending the school or public health authorities, but I would rather make a decision based on something objective. I am simply hesitant to give my kids a vaccine that hasn't been around that long and hasn't been proven to be safe.
My kids go to a small Catholic school. They will remember who I am if I don't fill out the form, so I might as well be in their faces and give some kind of truthful explanation. I was already the only person in the school who wrote a letter for my kids not to see the Obama school speech; I'm developing quite a reputation :)
Thanks again everyone!
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
It's a Health Department form, no?
If so, it has nothing to do with the school. The school is probably compelled to go along. I refused to fill out the government's form on principal. They have taken those forms and dismissed the giant "no" on them... just as I feared they would. You can speak with the principal directly, or in a letter, about your position. I did that, too. I don't want a bad reputation, either! But, hey, it's my child's health and safety on the line.
If you want something objective, watch the Spanish Doctor (who is a Nun) thread on H1N1. Then send the video link with your email to the principal. I'd like to see a Catholic school principal refute it. In fact, it may help a lot of other students.
On a lighter note, it reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, "I don't look for trouble. But I don't run." :)
Foster that reputation!
The more “in your face” attention you demand from them, and the more you are remembered, the less realistic possibility they have of saying, “We didn't know you didn't want the kids vaccinated!”
Be truthful with them. Who cares what they think of you – it's your kids we're talking about. If you allow your kids to be vaccinated when no one has disproved to you, beyond reasonable dispute, the volumes of warnings surrounding the issue, then you are, in effect, playing Russian roulette with your kids.
If they try to discredit you or scoff at you, explain to them that you're not going to take chances with your kids. Show a little bit of outrage that they would encourage you to do so. Bring their stewardship over the safety of your kids into question. Essentially, put the ball of blame back in their court.
Good luck! Please let us know what transpires!
I found myself in the same situation....
It bothered me that they wanted a signed form from me even though I was declining their "service". I did not send the form in at all. I didn't like the idea of them misreading it .... if you look in past posts, you will find a thread about the many mistakes that are being made currently by health departments in schools all across the country - they don't even read those forms! I figured they wanted my information in their system - and I did not want to cooperate - so I didn't send it in. I also did not send my daughter to school on the day of vaccinations.
It doesn't sound like you need an official religious exemption form in this situation... unless I don't have all of the information. If you need to get one, I have been told that they cannot legally inquire into your religious beliefs at all. They may try... but you do not need to (and shouldn't) give them any detailed information about your "religious convictions". Hope this helps!
Church of
Church of Reality
www.churchofreality.org
They feel as though Marijuana is a sacred sacrament
They can weaken the immune system and cause neurological damage
Go to DrMercola.com and find the newsletter archive for yesterday, 11/3/09 and listen to the video interview with the researcher. (Current link: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/current.aspx )
In that video, there will be studies quoted that you can look up and reference.
In my opinion, there is not so much a plot to harm people for money, as a tendency of people to make assumptions, and to trust the system, and they're all just the blind leading the blind.
I believe that the people working at the drug companies want to help people, but that there is a disconnect, and when the FDA approves a drug, they cede responsibility. Meanwhile, the FDA assumes the "scientists" have signed off, and really it might have been the marketing or legal departments.
This is what happens when the government promises to take responsibility.
IMissLiberty
IMissLiberty
It's my understanding if you
It's my understanding if you object on religious/spiritual grounds it is illegal for them to ask you what your religion is.
JW?
Christian Scientists or Jehovah's Witness? Not sure which.
Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica
Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica
Your body is a temple
I Corinthians 6 -
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
You cannot consent to having untested (and in some cases, proven dangerous) chemicals pumped into your body, or your kids'.
Or, you could be part of Christian Scientology (who do not believe in drugs or doctors).
BUT BE WARNED: They are aware of what the various religious beliefs are and there is a possibility that they will grill you to see if you know your stuff. There have been cases of this already.
Also be warned that you might have to answer to God some day for using and discarding religion when it's convenient, whether or not you believe it now. :-)
In any case, it seems to me that the whole issue here is, “How will I explain my objection?” Who says you have to? The school does not dictate parental rights. Your answer could simply be, ”Because I'm asserting my God-given parental right to say no!” Or, you could just tell them the truth: ”I am aware that the previous swine flu vaccines a few decades ago caused more damage and death than the swine flu itself. Too many recent reports by credible medical authorities have presented unambiguous evidence that the current H1N1 vaccine is dangerous to my children. I am aware that Congress appropriated quite a lot of money to allow the current H1N1 vaccine to bypass reasonable safety testing procedures. Finally, I am aware that the makers of the current H1N1 vaccine have created and released, in the recent past, vaccines that were 'mistakenly' tainted with extremely deadly toxins. All in all, there is too much controversy surrounding the latest H1N1 vaccine, and some very credible reasons to avoid it, and the lives, safety and health of my kids is not a craps shoot I'm willing to play.”
There's really no such thing as a crash-course on religion. If I were you, I would stick to the truth. There are reasons you're asking us for advice – reasons you do not want your kids to be vaccinated. Be truthful and state those reasons. Who cares what the school thinks of you for it?
To be clear you are
To be clear you are referring to the Church of Jesus Christ, Scientist or the Scientist. I don't think "Christian Scientology" is accurate. I could be wrong. Incidentally they have nothing to do with the Church of Scientology.
The proper and commonly-accepted term is
...just Scientology, although every one I've ever met, and with whom I've discussed religion, referred to him/her self as a “Christian Scientologist”.
In any case, I wouldn't use religion at all if I knew nothing about it. I don't see anything wrong with either (a) the truth, or (b) refusing to be coerced to give an answer that is none of their business. She could easily just say, “Because I said no, and no means no!” If fact, despite any religious background I may or may not have, I would probably be inclined to give the latter answer anyway, simply because of their intrusiveness, and because of their pompous presumptuousness to think I owe them an explanation.
That's interesting Echelon.
That's interesting Echelon. I guess the "Christian" in "Christian Scientologist" is what separates themselves from the Scientology of John Travolta fame.
Don't get the vaccine.. just
Don't get the vaccine.. just tell them you have heard there are things in the vaccine that are not good.. that information comes from me and I was tol by a colorado state trooper.. None our troopers will be taking this vaccine..
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
(Because of its fame,
(Because of its fame, "vaccination" is often misused for other immunizations. "Vaccination" is a PARTICULAR immunization - anti-smallpox using live "vaccinia" - alias "cowpox", a related virus that cross-reacts with smallpox but almost never does more than cause one "pock" in humans unless spread by scratching.)
Immunization is a numbers game.
- There are risks from the immunization.
- There are generally FAR greater risks from the disease it helps prevent.
- The immunization is not 100% effective at preventing the disease so this has to be figured into the estimate of the risk. Normally immunization still comes out WAY ahead compared to taking a chance on getting the disease.
- Immunize enough of the population and you also reduce the spread of the disease by denying it potential victims. This is called "population immunity" and its big success story is the elimination of smallpox. It's one reason governments, once they decide a particular immunization is good, try to get most of the population to take it (which improves the benefit/risk ratio further). But governments are mostly used to dealing with people as masses rather than individuals.
In the case of the current H1N1 the big risk is pneumonia. Unlike most Influenzas, which infect the bronchial tubes (along with other tissues elsewhere), H1N1 also infects the lung tissue proper. This can be very bad. It also has a very rapid onset. So far it hasn't proven exceptionally fatal as influenzas go. But influenzas mutate even within a flu season so that's no guarantee it will stay relatively benign.
Some people are worried about:
- "adjuvants" added to the vaccine - to irritate the tissues and boost the immune response
- the trace of mercury-based preservative used to help keep it from spoiling due to bacterial activity.
- the possibility of infection with other viruses that might have been accidentally included by the manufacturing process and not adequately killed off by the step that killed the influenza virus.
My take:
- ANY activation of the immune system carries a slight risk of it deciding some normal tissue is also an enemy and creating an auto-immune disease. For most people that risk is very small (and yes the adjuvants also raise it.) But if the person immunized already HAS an auto-immune disease any activiation of the immune system will probably increase its severity. So people with a severe auto-immune disease or a family history of it might want to consider skipping the immunization. (Downside is that getting the Flu will ALSO activate the immune system - more strongly than the shot - and thus poses its own possibly greater risk for such people. So they need to figure the risk.)
The trace of mercury doesn't particularly worry me. It's REALLY small compared to the levels that are documented to have detrimental effects. (It's also tiny compared to the exposure I got as a kid from things like Mercurichrome antiseptic, playing with broken thermometers, hanging out in science labs, and drinking water in a high-mercury area. My nervous system seems to have come out OK. But maybe I'd have been the next Einstein without it. B-) )
Infectious contamination is another tiny risk, since the tests and trials should turn it up if it's not some new slowpoke like AIDS.
I intend to get the H1N1 injection as soon as it's available. I have a couple risk factors for lung issues which skew the odds in favor of the immunization (though I expect this one would still be a "take it is the far lower risk" without them.)
But you get to make your own choice.
And that's one of the good things about freedom: With people making both choices, whether this vaccine turns out to have a major, fatal, problem or H1N1 turns out to be the next plague, there will still be people left afterward to carry on. B-)
= = = =
"Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job."
That means: For each job "created or saved" about five were destroyed.
Contact Gary Krasner of the CFIC
(Coalition for Informed Choice), 718-479-2939. He might be able to steer you in the right direction. He is most familiar with New York State laws. Also, I'm happy to send you the letter that I've used to keep my kids vaccinated-free and then you could modify it to fit your situation.
Best of luck.
affirmation: President Paul 2008
Interesting, my posts were being held up
Is there a problem mod?
National Vaccine Information Center, great website.
WATCH THIS video which was posted earlier by Sunny
This is possibly the BEST explanation of the entire issue that I have seen. And it is not done in a "whacko" mindset, but rather based upon real medical reasons and logic. Take the time to watch it..... take notes as you go.... and you will have all you need.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/113295
By the way... they only want to know WHY you are saying "no", so that they can aim their next "campaign" at those reasons. Don't assist them.
_________
A Man's Country Is Not A Certain Area Of Land,
Of Mountains, Rivers, And Woods,
But It Is A Principle......
And Patriotism Is Loyalty To That Principle .
- George William Curtis
Thomas Jefferson: “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."
Viva La Revolucion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmaTNf4YhEs
go here
National Vaccine Information Center
Amica, Please do Not give this permission
My son is in college and I have no control over what he as a young adult must do. What I gave was my honest belief to him, and that is, it would NOT be a good thing to take the shot. He decided on his own when he saw the worry in my eyes.
You can deny this request and, you can tell them that your reasons are NONE of their business. Please do not be scared, just stand up for your rights as a parent. The school board has no rights and any individual on the board, you can tell to kiss off. The Health Department , ditto. Not only would I sign a form denying a request, I would hand deliver it with a written statement saying I would sue everyone involved if a vaccination was given by mistake.
1976-1982 USMC, You can thank me for my service by voting for Dr. Ron Paul, President 2012
go to
National Vaccine Information Center website info there.
Watch video here of Dr. Gary
Watch video here of Dr. Gary Null’s Research on Autism/Vaccine Dangers and Pharma Fraud Exposed at NY State Hearing. Lots of other info on this site too.
http://wholefoodusa.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/video-research-...
Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.
"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor
Some might say
don't even return the form.
When your kid goes there that day, if they have a signed form, they might not really read that you opted out and give it to her anyway.
I think it's a prefectly valid reason that you don't want her to take it because it still hasn't been tested properly.
There was a recent thread about this
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/113019
The consensus (and advice from school officials) was to NOT return the form at all. If I were you, I would take it one step further – write a letter saying something to the effect of:
I _________ (school official) acknowledge that _______ (your name) decrees her parental rights and demands that her children, _________ and _______, are NOT to be vaccinated at any time. I agree that if I am ordered by any law enforcement official or government agent to vaccinate said children against these parental wishes, I will notify (your name) immediately. Further, I agree that I will be responsible and liable for any damages or impairment caused to said children should said children be vaccinated against the stated parental demands in any connection with (name of school).
Signed,
___________ (school official)
These steps avoid any possibility of them saying, "Oh, we got the form and misread it. We thought it said 'yes'! Sorry, but we already administered it to your kids..."
From a legal aspect, I would think that absence of consent does not equal absence of objection.
I talked with the doctor and head nurse (together) at my daughter's school and let them know in extremely crystal clear terms that they are not, under any circumstances, to administer any vaccines at any time for any reason to my daughter. I explained to them that any law conflicting with the Constitution is invalid (they agreed). I explained to them that I realize there is the possibility that the government might try to declare an emergency or in some other way attempt to circumvent or suspend the Constitution, then order them to vaccinate my kid against my wishes... and that any circumvention of the Constitution equates to treason (they agreed). I explained to them that if they follow such orders that they are treasonous conspirators who are just as guilty as those who gave the orders (they agreed). There is no possible way they can say they did not know that they were not to give my kid the vaccine. In any case, she has already had the swine flu a couple of weeks ago, so I guess I don't need to worry about it now.
Interesting advice..
What my kids are telling me is that the form needs to be returned by November 13th. They don't know when the Health Department will come by with the vaccine.
Not a bad plan, though. I have refused to sign other forms I object to in the past. One that comes to mind: the form that asked for consent to mental health testing and counseling.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
yep
Amica here in my signature is a video you must see it's part one(of three) of Gary Null speech on the subject.
___________________
"a half truth is a full lie" old Jewish saying quoted by Gary Null
exposing big pharma and their deadly vaccines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gavenB_AJ9A
Website:
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul