DEMOCRATS FOR RON PAUL... dont discount *US* YOU NEED US!!

I appreciate your enthusiasm and I'm sure Ron Paul appreciates your support, but I feel the need to nit-pick with you on a couple of issues. First, I want to draw a distinction that I'm sure you are aware of, but some may not be, and that is the fact that voters from each party feel quite differently than politicians from those parties. With that in mind, I'll address your points...

1. Get us out of Iraq ASAP.... this transcends Democrats and Republicans and Libetarians etc... everyone in these parties wants out of Iraq.

Not everyone. Most Republicans (voters and politicians) want to stay in Iraq, and a good many of them want more war (Iran, or anyplace else the bogeyman is found). The smart ones (those voters you will find here, supporting Ron Paul, for example) want out of Iraq, as you said. This is important because it explains the marginalization of Paul by the Republican Party -- they want to continue US aggression in the Middle East.

2. Get rid of WASTEFUL government spending. Hey, maybe we dont agree on *all* aspects of the governments hand in things, but we democrats ALSO HATE WASTEFUL SPENDING, I.E. FEMA, DEPT OF HOMELAND INSECURITY, and many other departments that are wasting money too.

I think you'll find that most politicians hate whatever government program is proposed and/or supported by the other party. Yes, they really are that shallow; it is all about party lines in Washington. I honestly believe that most of them don't even read the summaries of the bills; they just look for the letter next to the name of whoever introduced it. The voters are somewhat better able to judge each program based on its merits, but there is still an unfortunate level of party loyalty.

3. Democrats ALSO want to get rid of the Patriot Act... WE have no idea why our representatives have voted for this thing at all... we too respect the Bill of Rights!

Most Democrats, voters and politicians alike, only support those portions of the Bill of Rights they agree with. They have long been openly hostile to the second amendment, for example. Republicans, especially the neoconservative variety, have become equally hostile to the fourth amendment, although the politicians tend to be worse than the average Republican on the street, in that regard.

4. Ron Paul's message about let States decide civil rights ALSO APPEALS to us - PLEASE DONT FORGET WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING THE RELIGEOUS RIGHT for eons now.... give us some credit here please!!! If the Neo-Con Republicans and the Moral Majority had there way, think of how repressive the goverment would be, we have had to fight for our rights too...

I know you didn't mean to suggest that our rights come from government -- state or otherwise -- but your choice of words could be construed that way. Please choose your language very carefully when talking about rights, and where they come from. Ron Paul doesn't believe that the states are to decide what our rights are. He understands that rights cannot be granted (nor, therefore, revoked). Anything that can be granted is not a right, but a privilege.

5. Who is to really say if abortion is wrong or not but God... not any human being... I like Ron Pauls stance again on letting states decide invidual rights.

Again, Ron Paul wants to restore the position of the states, which is above the federal government. The latter was created only for the common defense of the states, and a few other things. The states were to be sovereign, much like the nations of Europe prior to the EU. Since the Civil War, the states have been reduced to mere apendages of the centralized federal government.

6. Nationalized healthcare.... LOL... my total disagreement with Ron Paul... sorry but my side of the story is that Canada and other countries have proved it can work... it reduces malpractice law suits drastically, reducing lawyers drastically, therefore Doctors dont pay high insurance premiums and therefore can keep costs down... etc. etc. etc... so please dont bash me on this one... PERHAPS Ron Paul's open competitive system on the other extreme might work - hey I am willing to give this one a chance.

I won't bash you, but I will direct your attention to the difference between negative and positive rights. By their names, you might think that positive rights are the good ones, but they are not. Indeed, positive rights are not rights at all, they are privileges. As such, positive rights do not exist. Allow me to illustrate the difference...

The right to free speech is a negative right, because it requires no action from others in order to be upheld. The only thing your right to free speech demands of me is that I do not stop you from speaking. By contrast, a "right to be heard" (which some people incorrectly believe to be protected under the first amendment), would be a positive right, because it would require a direct, or positive, action from someone else.

Say, for example, I am standing on a street corner preaching the Gospel. You come walking by, but you don't care to hear the Gospel today. What are your options? If you cover your ears, you are able to effectively silence that which you do not wish to hear, but my negative right to preach on the street corner has not been violated, the way it would be if you had covered my mouth instead of your ears. Now let's say that the government has decided that I have a right to be heard. A police officer sees you cover your ears, so he gives you a choice, under the law, to either uncover your ears and listen to me, or he will forcibly uncover them and/or arrest you for violating my positive right to be heard. Remember, in order for that right to be upheld, you have to be compelled to listen -- positive action must be taken.

Socialized health care would be a positive right, because in order for me to be provided with free health care, someone somewhere must be compelled to provide it, either directly or indirectly. If you are a doctor, perhaps the government will compel you to treat me for free. More likely, of course, is that that you will be taxed to pay for my health care. Either way, your negative rights have been violated in order that my positive right to health care be upheld.

Advocates of socialized health care may have the best of intentions, but the road to destruction is paved with good intentions; good intent does not make something just.

7. Gun control is not a democrat issue.... so many people seem to want to say Democrats want gun control.... wrong... I dont think we care one way or the other, ITS A NON-ISSUE with most all of us - heck I have guns, I hunt, I could care less on this topic as do most democrats.... Gun control is just another media driven topic to divide the two parties.

I disagree, as I said above. It has been my experience that most people who vote Democratic tend to believe that the best response to gun violence is to violate the individual rights of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves. I'm glad to hear that you understand that if we make gun ownership a criminal offense, only criminal offenders will own guns.

8. NON-INTERVENTIONISM is popular with us too!!!! Bring our troops home and save money. Why anyone would think we want otherwise.

I agree that this has traditionally been the Democratic position. This is one area where I agree wholeheartedly with the average Democratic voter. Sadly, as we have seen, Democratic politicians have essentially joined the neoconservatives on this issue and are nearly in lock-step with the Republicans on Iraq.

9. There are other *SMALLER* issues that are pretty petty... but just remember alot of Democrats are Democrats JUST TO OPPOSE THE MORAL MAJORITY AND RESTRICTIONS ON FREEDOM...

Agreed. Again, I agree with the majority of Democrats on social issues, whereas I agree with the Republicans on economic issues. Both are positions of freedom, and I believe in total freedom. Sadly, the economic left has absorbed the social liberals under the Democratic Party, whereas the economic right has absorbed the social conservatives under the Republican Party. This leaves those of us who would best be described as libertarian (economically on the right -- i.e., on the free, or "liberal" end of the economic scale -- and socially liberal, which is the free end of that scale) politically homeless. (The LP is a joke, as are all third parties. I'm not complaining; I believe the two-party system is the most stable, and that change should come from within those parties, rather than from a third party.)

Anyway, I just wanted to say that there are small differences that dont matter much but the major stances of Ron Paul appeal to people of all parties... It stops us from having to choose the lesser of two evils...

Indeed, Ron Paul not only saves Republicans from choosing the lesser evil in the primaries, but he will save everyone that indignity in the general election. :-)

So go ahead and bash away at me after this topic is posted, but I hope you guys and gals all realize that A LARGE NUMBER OF US DEMOCRATS SUPPORT RON PAUL AS EVIDENCED BY HIM COMING IN *SECOND* IN THE DEMOCRATIC STRAW POLL IN CALIFORNIA THIS WEEK....

I hope I didn't come off as bashing you, I was just bothered by some of what you said. Perhaps it was just the way you said it, that I misinterpreted. Agreed on that Democratic straw poll; I saw the video on YouTube and it was hilarious.

So I highly suggest that people STOP BASHING HILLARY AND OBAMA so violently because we want to pick up their voters also. Yes as a past democrat I can safely say alot of them are very unhappy with their choices also.... Joe Biden probably being the most honest and trustworthy of them all... Dennis K. blew it with the *I have seen ufo* things...

The UFO thing shouldn't be such a problem. Jimmy Carter said the same thing, as did Barry Goldwater. People like Rush Limbaugh are just looking for reasons to label Kucinich as crazy, but I can do that easily enough based on his radical socialist policies. I don't care about his UFO sighting; judging him for it is unfair.

But again I ask people to consider, WHAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES RON PAUL IS FOR... I would say getting us out of Iraq, Stop Policing the World, Reduce government spending, Do away with the Patriot Act... Enforce personal freedoms and liberties etc. etc. etc...

Yep. Add to that, "rescue the tanking dollar" and you've pretty well summed it up.

Ron Paul *will* get a healthy support from past Democrat Voters, in fact I HATE THE FACT WE EVEN LABEL OURSELVES BASED ON A TWO PARTY SYSTEM because there are always some issues in both parties a member doesnt agree with, but instead makes a decision on which candidate by what they stand for. There is division even within the Ranks of these Parties... Ultimately there should be more than two party system but *sigh* that is how bitter things have become. I think the Democrats HAVE woken up to Ron Paul and see him as a viable candidate. Remember we must have their support also in order for Ron Paul to win should he be nominated *or* run as a third Party.... AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A DEMOCRAT BECOMES A RON PAUL SUPPORTER, THEY IN ESSENCE BECOME A REPUBLICAN... though not in the neo-con modern day sense... PERHAPS I SHOULD SAY THEY BECOME A PUALITE!
thanks for you time and I know the article was long, but all I hear on this board is Republican this, Republican that and no one seems to be AWARE OF THE SUPPORT RON PAUL HAS FROM DEMOCRATS TOO OR *PAST* DEMOCRATS IF YOU MUST LABEL US!!!

I addressed my opinion about the two party system above, but I won't go into detail here. What's important is that you are right about what really matters: we are all Paulites!

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I know, I know, its not proper to bump your own topic... I just want to keep sending the message.... and my second post about please (a request not a demand) to hold off donating til Dec 16th...

My usual single-minded, narrow focused view, that we have to hold back and concentrate on Dec 16th.... please dont get sidetracked by other calls for a smaller money bomb for such and such a reason OR that we need to get Ron Paul to 12 million which was his goal (as that WILL be reached) and dont forget that:

A. Ron Paul himself has spoken to the media numberous times about Dec 16th and says its going to be bigger and better than Nov 5th so we CAN NOT LET HIM DOWN.. the media will pounce if we dont do BETTER than Nov 5th...

B. Ron Paul himself says he is now *money rich* and cannot figure out what to do with all the extra cash he has.... I say spend it as we will refill the coffers come Dec 16th which will be in perfect time TO SPEND IT ALL ON SUPER TEUSDAY... I think that may well be the do-or-die point in his campaign... if Super Teusday does not go well.... shudder... I hate to even think about it.

C. The campaign is going to release another CLARION CALL for money soon... Dont forget that Mr. Badlyk does NOT receive any credit for the money bomb days... it is not part of the offical donation campaign and thus they actually make him look bad in that the grassroots people are doing more for the campaign than the campaign is doing itself. It must be pretty frustrating to be the director of donations and be overwhelmingly out-done by the grassroots... so please ignore any more calls from the campaign for money... they will get theirs when we give OURS DEC 16TH.

Finished with my usual Dec 16th temper tantrum.... now LADDYBOY... its your turn..

I am posting this message under a *previous* post because I think they are linked. Has anyone exmained the little fine print under all the polls they release about the republican candidates and how they are doing.

In little itty bitty tensey tiney letters they same something to the effect "poll conducted with 368 people +/- 5% error of past republican voters (or sometimes it says likely republican voters) etc. etc. etc...

So my complaint about the polls is that they DONT poll Libetarians or Democrats or *others to numberous to mention* and thus the REPUBLICAN POLLS are skewed to the hard-core neo-cons...

Plus most of Ron Paul supporters are new to the political process because they are YOUNGER people coming of age to be able to vote and I find it AMAZING that they are supporting a MUCH OLDER PERSON... its almost against the grain of human nature to be young and vote for a much older person - but its the MESSAGE that is drawing the frustrated people out...

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think the primaries are going to EXPOSE the MEDIA AND POLLS for the political tools that they are!

after we get Dr. Paul elected, we can start a new party with the best of all the old within it.

We need you and love you guys.

the top level Dems and GOP'ers are all part of the same party - the Anti-Freedom Party. Think about it, Bill Slick Willy Clinton and G Bush the 41st both traveling together all over the world. They are on the same team. But they want us to think they are different. Then no matter who we vote for, they get their agenda passed. Remember, the first so-called Assault Weapons ban came from Bush sr.
These elitist people are evil and don't give one whit about you and me.

So, let's band together and get Ron Paul elected!

In Liberty's Cause,
Clell

I've never registered as a republican or voted for a republican presidential candidate before in my life, because I saw the republicans as a bunch of liars who promise one thing and deliver the exact opposite. I always voted democratic, even though my conservative views are more in line with the republican party, because the democrats struck me as more honest and sincere (too bad they really aren't). I hope Ron Paul can set an example for his fellow republicans and help make the republican party one I can be proud of calling myself a member!

I think it is great that so many Democrats have found Ron Paul.
We are ALL in this together - Ron Paul is the one man to unite us all.

WE THE PEOPLE choose Ron Paul - well, at least those of us with an awareness and a desire to keep America FREE do.
_________________________
*** God bless Ron Paul ***
* Ron Paul For President *

Hey, Democrats,

Thanks, Work hard please!
The war issue is important enough to me that I was
probably going to cringe and vote for Hilary. My wife and kids choked when
they heard that.

For Ron Paul.. Cause we need him to right the wrongs we have done.. before it is too late.. Repubs and Dems have both failed us.. Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so thankful for Ron Paul bringing unity to the parties... Its not about who is republican,democrat or libertarians, its about who is best for this country and for the people of this great Country...Freedom people ... We welcome all parties to join the Ron Paul R3vo_lution... GOD SAVE AMERICA!

~Perki /aka Liberty

.Ronald Reagan...He actually was endorsed by the Teamsters!

I applaud your level headed approach to the issues and am glad to hear that finding a trustworthy candidate is so much more important than a label. I have always been on the Republican side... I was excited when the Republicans took over congress in 94' and was really excited when they had the Presidency, the Senate and the House. But what they did next proved to me that politics is just a shell game!

We need trustworthy people in government and as small a federal government as possible!

Mike
Who is Ron Paul? I am Ron Paul! We are Ron Paul!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit www.mikeandjake.com

I digg the fact the lots of RP supporters are Democrats. I was one myself a long time ago. I changed to be able to vote in Republican primaries where democratic primaries seemed more predictable. My guys never made it. But this time I feel it the most important because I've never seen a guy comparable to RP. But the only way to raise him to the top of the party is to become a Republican and vote for him. Don't wait for RP to go third party because my estimation is that it won't come. The system is too biased against a 3rd party canidate and all the media will say, "See I told you so." That "see I told you so" is something we all want to avoid because it will favor a Democrat canidate who probably won't be a whole lot different than Bush.

I welcome you with open arms to a new Republican Party with NEW ideals and Constitutional goals. No longer will I affiliate myself with anyone or any Party that does not reflect my overall views. I am finished with my "tribalism" and I'm awake.

“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.” -Joseph Goebbels-

i guess you see a lot of this because we are working to get him elected in the republican primary...therefore putting most energy in these areas....you know ,,,being from Austin probobly 80 percent of the ron paul supporters here are democrats....we are well aware that there is huge support coming from all sides....I am a democrat....but registered republican and now finding myself against these party labels because its so flipped upside down now and the media has done a great job dividing everybody down the middle...Rupert Murdoch holding fundraisers for hillary??? whats going on?!?!?

If you vote for Ron Paul in the primaries, I dont give a shit who you are. Just do it.

Even though I disagree with it, at the current moment no Democrat could implement it... Bush has spent SOOOO much money that ironically, a Democrat would have to vote for a frugal budget-man like Ron Paul in 08 for there to be enough money in 2012 to consider implementing some form of socialized healthcare.

"freedom brings us together" as the good Dr has said. Frankly I watched the aaron Russo film freedom to fascism and I think he nailed it dead on. It really hasnt matter if you voted Republican or democrat- it was the same agenda. With Ron Paul you for the first time in a long time have a choice. I am glad Democrats are not party loyal but rather look at the issues, I would do the same too.

Where I live nearly all the Ron Paul supporters are democrats.