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War not conservative~ Rep. John J. Duncan (R-Tenn.)

There is nothing conservative about the war in Afghanistan. The Center for Defense Information said a few months ago that we had spent over $400 billion on the war and war-related costs there. Now, the Pentagon says it will cost about $1 billion for each 1,000 additional troops we send to Afghanistan. One Republican Member from California told me recently that we could buy off every warlord in Afghanistan for $1 billion.

Fiscal conservatives should be the ones most horrified by all this spending. Conservatives who oppose big government and huge deficit spending at home should not support it in foreign countries just because it is being done by our biggest bureaucracy, the Defense Department.

We have now spent $1.5 trillion that we did not have--that we had to borrow--in Iraq and Afghanistan. Eight years is long enough. In fact, it is too long. Let's bring our troops home and start putting Americans first once again.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/68365-war-no...

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"Let's bring our troops home..." hmmm....

now where have I heard that before?

Great post Belle!

Let me share a recent experience

I attended a citizens town hall meeting of tea party groups in Toledo on 11/14. I signed up as a speaker with the intent to announce my interest in opposing Marcy Kaptur in Congress. I spoke about the need to adopt of philosophy of liberty and reject the use of the government as a management tool. Specifically, using the government to support one group plunders the success of others. Rousing support was received. I then suggested that the Republican Party was useful for its ballot status and nothing more and we as tea party members should take control of the Republican Party in this district as the Democrats have controlled Congress for over 50 years. Again rousing support. Questions from the audience were next and the first question was did I support the U.S. as a world policeman and did I support our wars in Iran and Afghanistan. When I said "Bring the troops home" and we could save a trillion dollars which would create an economic boom, I received enormous applause and cheering. The next question was did I believe in the global war on terror and when I said NO, I received moans and ahs. I added that what we were receiving was blowback and the moans continued. I remain baffled by this response and would be interested in receiving additional comments.

thats incredible, they want

thats incredible, they want the troops home but support the so-called war on terror, which is what sent the troops there to begin with?

Ventura 2012

programmed, probably, by the MSM, to 'support' the . . .

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

so-called "War on Terror"--

it is terrifying to me HOW programmed my friends and family are--

if *they* watch MSM--

they will agree that *we* (our 'leaders') are spending us into collapse, but when a word like 'terror' is used, some people immediately see Muslim extremists, not American/European bankers/corporatists.

There just hasn't been enough true education. I know how frustrating it is, but then I unplugged the television over 35 years ago!

And I have been shouted down.

You are dealing with people who are plugged in. It's sad; it's hard. I take my hat off to you for trying--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

when I realize I have found a pre-programmed automoton

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

in a friend . . . is when I hear the word "Jihad"--

or "Jihadist"--

or the name of some other Islamic 'organization'--

and the way it is said is always so telling--

I can sense the parroting in it, because now and again I see a bit of MSM on youtube--

it's such a programmed response--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

They thought you were blaming America for 9-11.

The next question was did I believe in the global war on terror and when I said NO, I received moans and ahs. I added that what we were receiving was blowback and the moans continued. I remain baffled by this response and would be interested in receiving additional comments.
QUOTE

When Americans hear the word "blowback", they believe someone is trying to justify the actions of 9-11. They'll never believe that.
One of the problems is a misuse of the word "war". The terms "War on Poverty", "War on Drugs", "War on Terror" are misnomers Terror is a tactic, a war on a tactic makes no sense.
IMO there were three ways to deal with the perpetrators of 9-11.
1) The Criminal Justice System
2) War
3) A letter of Marque and Reprisal

The first was impractical since there was no way to extradite them.
The second was an overreaction, waging war against a country (Afghanistan) All that did was create more enemies. The Taliban had nothing to do with 9-11. Today the problem has been made greater with the whole Pashtun nation as the enemy. There are about 42 million of them. It makes no sense trying to solve a problem by making it larger.
As for the third way, a letter of marque and reprisal, Ron Paul introduved a bill in Congress that would have given the president the power to deal with the 9-11 people that way.
As I understand it third parties are hired to deal with those responsible. In modern parlance it's putting a contract out on them. So far 1.5 trillion dollars have been spent on the wars. A lot of proxies can be bought for that.
President Bush should have taken the attitude of the Israelis after the terror at the Munich Olympics where Israeli athletes were taken hostage and murdered. The Israelis hunted the murderers down and killed them
all, But it was politically impossible for the president to be patient. He had to do something quickly and it had to be seen by the American people. The result was the mess we have now.
It's still not to late to withdraw from the wars and use option three. JMO

The Calculus of Fear

The essence of propaganda consists in winning people over to an idea so sincerely, so vitally, that in the end they succumb to it utterly and can never again escape from it. ~Goebbels.

"For how could the fear, the hatred, and the lunatic credulity which the Party needed in its members be kept at the right pitch, except by bottling down some powerful instinct and using it as a driving force?" ~Orwell 1984

The Calculus of Fear:
When fear is distributed by the mass media, managed and promoted by the state, even with calibrations of fear that assign specific values to different threats (the colour coding of threat levels in the U.S.), with armies of taxpayers called upon to pay ever more for more “security”, when they have less real income than before, supposedly with the aim of prolonging their lives against “the terrorist threat”, then one has to talk about fear as something that is calculated, controlled, and controlling.

The Calculus of Fear: Fear and War is a Profitable Economy
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/106768

*****
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

Not A Recent Conversion

This is not a recent conversion. He opposed the Afghanistan War in the 2008 election. Along with Ron Paul and a few others he opposed the Iraq war from the beginning. I don't know what his position was on Afghanistan at the beginning.
We need more like him! Below is a story about him.

http://www.broowaha.com/articles/4707/jimmy-duncan-a-right-k...

Duncan voted against the 2002 Iraq War Resolution.

Along with Dr. Paul.
Duncan has never been for the wars.
John Duncan is my Congressman, and his voting is a near image of how Ron Paul votes.
He's probably the closest thing to Ron Paul in Congress, outside of RP himself.

Call me cynical,

but talk is cheap. And elections are around the corner. I expect to start hearing alot of "Ron Paul" speak in the coming months.

You'd be less cynical

if you understood that John Duncan has been speaking and voting like Ron Paul in Congress for longer than you have known about Ron Paul.
How do I know that?
Because if you'd been around for any length of time at all, you'd already know about John Duncan.
Or else you don't pay attention.

Gee, did I strike

a nerve? Did I ding the idol on your mantle? Get off your high horse, there are enough zealots in the world. You like John Duncan, he's your freakin' hero, good for you. He "voted like Ron Paul", good for him. I'm concerned with the overall situation in this country, NOT one person. This putting an individual on a pedestal instead of the message of liberty has gotten stale. You come off sounding like the Obama personality cultists. You don't like my cynicism, oh well. It's been earned over the course of many years.

No, you didn't strike a nerve.

You simply displayed your ignorance.
And I pointed out that in Duncan's case, cynicism not likely to be necessary because he's pretty close to as good as we have there.
Nobody's perfect, but he's been pretty darn solid for a long time before it was considered "cool".
We've re-elected him here numerous times, because of his RP-like behavior in Congress, and he's not a "johnny come lately" to the movement.

How many Republicans voted against the Iraq War Resolution in 2002, when the heavy heat was on?
Not many(6), and Duncan was one of them.

Not perfect, but very good over a long period of time.

My...

ignorance? What are you basing your assumption of my ignorance on exactly? Especially when you don't know me. And forums being imperfect mediums for discourse, your calling me ignorant IS ignorant. His voting record hasn't really counted for much now, has it? Because you have to take into account all the OTHER Reps. voting records as well. And Iraq may as well be considered the 51st state of the union at this point. But good for Duncan and the others. They have their voting records, right? We have a long way to go, getting more Reps. in office who are concerned with this Republic before a voting record can truly be held in the esteem it garners now. Besides, as you say, he is your Rep., not mine. I highly doubt he'll be worried about my opinion, as my opinion isn't a part of his district.

meekandmild's picture

Maybe those pink slips are doing some good

I made my own and mailed them to my senators and congressman yesterday.

.

.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

WHOA!

Didn't see that one coming. Great job from Rep. John Duncan!

This is quite the piece of news....

Another elected republican sounding like Ron Paul!

Ron Paul's ideas won't be dismissed so easily by the big government party hacks next time around.....

Vote em all out! - http://www.teabombs.com/

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How to convert from pro-war

I think this is a good example of how we can discuss non-intervention with our Reps. and neo-con leaning citizens.

They are not concerned about the morality/constitutionality of occupation, murder of millions of civilians, torture, pre-emptive undeclared wars and the loss of civil liberties from Patriot Act, Military Comissions Act etc..

BUT

When you talk to them about the COST and the waste of dollars in MIC corporate private contracts...THEN you MIGHT get a few to listen!

*****
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

Exactly....

Fits right in with #''s 3 and 4 of my "7 Points To Convert Neo-Cons With"

1 - Sovereignty, get out of the U.N. and other world government bodies. Respect our Constitution.

2 - We'd be far safer with secure ports and borders, and a missile shield that covered U.S. territory - than we are today.

3 - Fear of what happens if our dollar/economy collapses - a very real reality, what will happen to all those military personnel stationed overseas? They will suffer the humiliation of a defeat without a shot being fired. This happened to the Soviet troops serving in satellite countries, they were starving and unable to get home. Our brave men and women in uniform deserve better than that.

4 - "The borrower is SLAVE to the lender" - GOD - we're enslaving ourselves to foreign countries, not a good position to be in.

5 - The reality of urban areas - Only Ron Paul Republicans will be able to win back support of urban areas, which the Republican party has Abandoned for decades - and that a Ron Paul Republican/Reagan Republican coalition is a winning ticket to take back America.

6 - The traditional republican policy of not policing the world.

7 - The original intent of our founders as to our foreign policy. Even Washington had some great quotes on non-interventionism, which was our policy until the Progressive Era.

from G. Washington - "Act for ourselves and not for others," by forming an "American character wholly free of foreign attachments."
if they say - "Things are different now than they were 200 years ago" ask them - if we accept that line of thinking, are there other principles of the founders we should discard, and where do we stop discarding?

Vote em all out! - http://www.teabombs.com/

Support Liberty Media! http://benswann.com/ - http://www.bluerepublican.org/ - http://krisannehall.com/ - http://lionsofliberty.com/

We won't turn things around until we 1st change the media - donate to a liberty media creator today!