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Rand Paul supporters and those dissapointed with him: This bickering is pointless and should end RIGHT NOW!

So I've had all night to stew over this and I'm still just as mad as I was. I'm going to lay down some tough love here and if it gets me banned then so be it.

First I want everyone to read Skyorbit's excellent write up on his blog about all this:
http://randforsenate.blogspot.com/2009/11/rand-paul-and-guan...

Folks, you have to understand Rand's been winning the PR and fundraising battle with Grayson for two months now. He has crisscrossed the state tirelessly each week, often making multiple stops in one day. Trey has done NONE of that. But one thing Trey's people have been doing is opposition research desperate to find ANYTHING on Rand.

They've had to search long and hard because compared to other politicians and candidates, Rand is clean as the wind driven snow. Must've been how he was raised because Rand has lived a life of virtue and is one of the most sincere and humble gentlemen I've ever met. That is rare in today's political world.

Trey's got nothing on Rand but he does have McConnell's machine working for him behind the scenes and they've found something that can hurt Rand...a divide and conquer move that riles up his supporters. Rand is in a no-win scenario here and was forced to play a hand he probably didn't want to play. Now we are at each others throats and the McConnell/Grayson crew are high-fiving each other: Mission Accomplished!

If you don't think that they've got people monitoring DP and other websites and reporting back to their bosses you are a fool. Yes...that's what I said. Tough love, remember? Rand would rather focus on his core issues: the economy and the monetary system but now he's sidetracked thanks in large part to the war that's erupted among us.

It was a candidates forum 6 months away from the election and if we hadn't started this feud amongst ourselves then it would've been a blip and gone away to be forgotten by primary voters in May. Now it's exploded onto the internet where everyone can see it. The opposition now sees they can use this and they'll run with it. And if Rand wins, don't think they won't hand it over to Conway or Mongiardo to use because Rand has gone up against McConnell and NOBODY stands up against McConnell without them paying a price. This is being proven right before our eyes as you pound away on your keyboards bashing Rand while the McConnell/Grayson crew literally are watching every word that you post here and they are laughing at us.

Great job guys! Way to throw us Rand supporters in Kentucky under the bus!

Well it ends right now! Now's the time to grow up and realize you will not get 100% everything you want in a candidate. You will always be able to find something about your candidate to quibble about. Jesus Christ Himself could return right now and there would be people complaining because the supernatural light show wasn't spectacular enough. That's the way it is in politics and it's a cancer that will consume you if you allow it.

You each must look at the field of US Senate candidates in Kentucky and judge each of them on the whole body of evidence and not get sidetracked by the Hail Mary play just thrown against us. It was done purposefully to put Rand in a position where whatever he said, his supporters would be divided. It's politics. It happens all the time and when it happens to your candidate you must grow a spine, steel your resolve and press on toward the prize. Or you can hit the internet and whine about how you're only getting 98% of what you want from your candidate.

Some of you are young and are still new to politics. I can understand why many of you are airing your frustrations here. But I'm in my 40's and I've been volunteering for campaigns for a long time. I've seen enough to recognize exactly what's going on here and I'm furious at those of you who have allowed yourselves to fall into the trap laid before you.

So here's the question to you. After you've looked at the entire field of candidates you must ask yourself: Am I in or am I out? Do you fold or do you rise up and fight even harder than before?
Do you double down or do you complain anonymously on web forums?

If you're anything like me and the other Rand supporters here in KY that I know, you double down and work even harder but it's you choice. You can do what you want in this campaign but for our sakes here in KY, stop with the bickering that does nothing but feed the McConnell/Grayson machine!

If you choose not to support Rand any more, may you go your way in peace. Me? Well, I've got a good man I need to go work hard for to get him elected to the US Senate.

DOUBLE DOWN!



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Bump!

The ER is slow tonight so I've got nothing better to do than to bury the trolls.

******************************
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

Natural Law and Natural Rights

http://jim.com/rights.html

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The Virtual Conspiracy

Obviously values the office over his integrity

(assuming he doesn't really believe this militaristic bullsh*t).

Best case scenario: He's lying. (look at all the promises Obama made)

As for this former supporter, I want a refund.

I don't cast my vote for warmongers. I don't cast my vote for liars.

You're a troll

The fact you're screaming for a refund of your $25 of every thread proves it.

As for getting a refund: sucks for you.

This one goes out to people who overuse the word TROLL

today, against people who take issue with Rand's warmongering.

Does it ever occur to you that you are getting NOWHERE by repeating your juvenile, groundless accusations?

"Troll! Sock puppet! Troll! Sock puppet!"

How does this help Rand Paul? I think it makes his die-hards look like numbskulls.

The troll calling AND the "Rand is Warmongering" needs to chill

The so called trolls and sock puppets have legitimate concerns.
We don't know for sure what Rand's true intentions are. Blind unquestioning faith is not healthy. We need to know where he stands.

Calling Rand a war monger is just as out of line. Have patience, demand answers and hold off judgment until we hear Rand address these issues himself.

Turning on each other does no good.

word

word

Ventura 2012

I'm in

Friends are those with the same enemies.

A few thoughts...

but first, Rand's press release (bolded emphasis added):

BOWLING GREEN, KENTUCKY – Leading United States Senate candidate Rand Paul today criticized the Obama administration’s decision to close the Guantanamo Bay detention center and try terrorism suspects in United States Civil Courts.

Foreign terrorists do not deserve the protections of our Constitution,” said Dr. Paul. “These thugs should stand before military tribunals and be kept off American soil. I will always fight to keep Kentucky safe and that starts with cracking down on our enemies.”

Dr. Paul believes in strong national defense and thinks military spending should be our country’s top budget priority. He has also called for a Constitutional declaration of war with Afghanistan.

At face value, these may resemble the kind of words a neocon would speak. Of course, a neocon would interpret all of the words highlighted in bold in the most vague, ambiguous, or broad manner possible giving those in office the widest latitude to exercise their power.

Yet, might not a liberty candidate use the same words but in a different manner?

Lets give it a try...

Rand believes "military spending should be our country’s top budget priority." - He could mean that it is our "top budget priority" to address our excessive spending on the military in the wrong place which is hurting our economy and weakening our "national defense" by creating enemies abroad.

Perhaps, Rand will use this an an opportunity to clearly define what "terrorist suspect", "national defense" and the rest of the words which I have placed in bold really mean, thereby, helping to rein in government encroachment on our liberties.

Maybe I am reading too much into this press release.

Time will tell.

wolfe's picture

Well said...

You have actually calmed me down a little bit... I was raging for a bit. I missed this whole thing until this evening....

I can understand a politician choosing his speech to mean two different things for different people... I don't like it, but I understand it... And I now need to reflect on this more, before I make any more angry comments...
_________
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

I was

thinking in terms of Rand using the same emotional language with which the neocons have conditioned the public to unthinkingly react to while changing the way the public understands the language by explaining what he means over the course of the race. This would temporarily blunt the neocons emotional attacks long enough for Rand to engage the voters' reasoning faculty. That would be an honest way to go about it.

But, I don't actually know what the plan is. We'll have to wait and see.

Well said

There's nothing wrong with rationally expressing concern (or even disappointment) with Rand's stance, but if you can't keep it in context and go overboard, you don't belong on this movement.

There are no perfect candidates, people. Think Ron Paul is perfect? Go watch the debates where he is stylistically the WORST candidate on the stage. Go revisit the newsletter issue, or look at his age.

The bottom line is that politics is a compromise. NO ONE close to this movement is suggesting that we vote for the lesser of two evils, but there's a big difference between rejecting the "less of two evils" mentality and throwing the baby out with the bath water by refusing to vote for anyone who isn't the Lord almighty himself.

So fine. Express your concern in a responsible way that doesn't damage the movement. Then take a step back and look at the context of having to get elected. Then take ANOTHER step back and look at the big picture. There will not be a better senate candidate ANYWHERE in the country next year than Rand Paul, much less in Kentucky. But if you want to hold on to your money and save your energy for when Jesus runs, you go right ahead.

Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical, minority views...Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. - SCotUS, 1995

Huh?

You need to look at your buddies and see the spewing out of their mouths. We disagree and get hammered and you act like we are the only ones in the wrong. Just take a look at both sides and express your concerns to all, not just the ones that are right. LOL

awesomely stated WCU -

lets "drive on!" as they say in the infantry....

From Pennsylvania with Love...rEVOLution!

I support him 100%!

seems pretty petty to me, Maybe I'm crazy

I remember when, I remember, I remember when I lost my mind
There was something so pleasant about that place.
Even your emotions had an echo
In so much space

And when you're out there
Without care,
Yeah, I was out of touch
But it wasn't because I didn't know enough
I just knew too much

Does that make me crazy?
Does that make me crazy?
Does that make me crazy?
probably

And I hope that you are having the time of your life
But think twice, that's my only advice

Come on now, who do you, who do you, who do you, who do you think you are,
Ha ha ha bless your soul
You really think you're in control?

Well, I think you're crazy
I think you're crazy
I think you're crazy
Just like me

My heroes had the heart to lose their lives out on a limb
And all I remember is thinking, I want to be like them
Ever since I was little, ever since I was little it looked like fun
And it's no coincidence I've come
And I can die when I'm done

Maybe I'm crazy
Maybe you're crazy
Maybe we're crazy
Probably

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe500eIK1oA
----------------
Ron Paul Supporter Since 1997
"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."
Thomas Jefferson

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

I probably went a little overboard with some of my comments

last night. Not everyone who disagrees with Rand or Ron, or anyone else is necessarily a troll. However, it is clear to me that there ARE trolls who wait for opportunities to divide people on this site (not that we're supposed to agree on everything anyway). Awareness is the key, as well as using a little more tact than I displayed. But I think Troy's post from last night was dead-on.

I posted some time ago on a YT clip that Rand needed to run to win. He has done that. I've been impressed with how he's run the campaign and his ability to communicate. Imo he has the makings of an excellent senator, one this country could actually be proud of. Grayson on the other hand comes across as a puppet who thought he had the election in the bag because he got the establishment nod, and now realizes that he's not the candidate Rand is and he's scared.

However, I adamantly disagree with Rand on the war and the idea of military tribunals because I think just about every war or "War on _________" this country has ever waged has been a scam. So, I can't support him on that issue.

There is a difference between tailoring his message for the audience and doing whatever it takes to beat this guy, win the race, and then doing what he believes is right. Of course, none of us can read his mind. So there's a lot of speculation going on here....

As some have said before, it is a slippery-slope. Think of the broken promises from Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43, and now Obama. All our lives people have wanted real change, and they just get letdown every time. Their favorite media source might convince them that the Bush/Clinton NAFTA deal really has helped, or that excessive govt spending under Reagan was necessary, Iran-Contra was for a "greater good" or that Bush had to change from a humble foreign policy because of 9/11, but most of us here know now that this is all a load of bull.

People need to be educated, not pandered to. If Rand really believes in military tribunals for people who have been held for years without trial, and probably tortured, then that is a serious letdown. However, it's not a deal-breaker for me when considering the alternative(s).

Great post Lex -

Keep up the good work in KY.

Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica

Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica

That's right! Because nothing says politics quite like...

...compromising on your personal values and liberties. Now's the time for compromise! After all, he's not quite as bad as that other guy!

Comical. Really.

Interesting.....

While I agree we should have certain key principles we adhere to....I would question why you think we should be "lock-step" in agreement. Doesn't that just put us in the same camp as neo-cons, false Republicans, and Democrats that suck-up to their party line???? I don't think any of us need to compromise our principles....but we do need to interact...we are not robots.... I don't agree with everything Ron Paul is for nor Rand...or other political people I support.....but I do support them...because I agree with them more than others....in most cases MUCH more than others.... If there are some issues of disagreement with someone I support....it doesn't mean they are the "lesser of two evils" - to me it simply means they are a much better candidate more in line with my beliefs. I wrote in Ron Paul because I could not vote for the lesser of two evils in the last Presidential election..... "none" - if you want us to be clones you limit free thought.....

I'm not telling anyone to lock step. On the contrary.

Why should you or anyone else budge one inch on your principles? Why? For what? And furthermore, if YOU budge on your principles, if YOU compromise, who is HE representing at that point?

The root if it all is right before you. HE can not possibly represent YOU. Only YOU can represent YOU.

ummm......OK

so lets move forward then....

I agree.....

Lets at least keep it constructive and respectful...

We will not agree on everything....thats why we are here....we are free thinkers....

"Seems like this issue has

"Seems like this issue has blown up on DP but on the ground here in KY there's not even been a blip." This is the most important thing you've said in the thread.

Don't overblow it Lex. Much DP commentary is bluster and making the perfect the enemy of the good. Unless Rand starts killing puppies, he's got me. Loyalty? No. Then why? Because I need the best people in Washington for my family to have the best future possible. And no opponent of Rand is better than him, not even close.

10-15 million more voters need to believe in non-interventionism (liberty) at home and abroad to change America. Minds changed on Syria. Minds changing on privacy. "Printing money" is part of the dialogue. Win minds through focus, strategy.

I Hope He Wins

That's the best I can say at this point. Won't give him money, no, and I have to wonder how much he "gets it," as his father does.

_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

Not looking for a prophet

I am just looking for a political representative (i.e. senator) that stands for my most important issues. If Rand stands for 96% of my issues then that's as good as it gets. Hell I would be happy with 80% of my issues let alone more...
We paulites differ on many subjects.. from pro-life to pro-abortion... from harsh on illegal immigration to people who believe that lack of welfare will fix the immigration with no effort needed... from ppl who believe we should take over the republican party to others who think it is more educative to have our own party... we come in many flavors you know...
Gimme a senator that requires a declaration of war... and I could live with some stupid war every decade or so... because so far we are going on a much faster rate than that :)
Please God... 2 senators for the movement next year... so that when the expected idiots leading the republican party get their you-know-what handed to them again in 2012... our senators would be experienced enough to launch a serious campaign in 2016...
Go Rand... my $100 will reach you and another one for Schiff before Christmas... wish I could have done more...

well put rar

well put rar

10-15 million more voters need to believe in non-interventionism (liberty) at home and abroad to change America. Minds changed on Syria. Minds changing on privacy. "Printing money" is part of the dialogue. Win minds through focus, strategy.

Im behind Rand

100%

I may not agree with him on everything. I trust him to do what he says and stand behind his principles.

Until he gives me reason not to trust him, Ill be a volunteer and donate what I can.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

I'm in!

You have to read no further for me... He's squeeky clean and politics is dirty and I trush him to represent us in office. No regrets on my contribution to Rand!

Just came from a local meeting...

Still 100% behind Rand and we finalized our ground campaign plans in this area. I have other reports what supporters are doing in their parts of the state.

Seems like this issue has blown up on DP but on the ground here in KY there's not even been a blip. Volunteers are going full bore and even ramping up their activities. Come January this race will blow wide open and Rand's going to win.

Perhaps I will take VoteRand2010's advice and stay off DP for a while. I've got a couple of other things I'm working on in relation with Rand's candidacy and I've got a ground campaign to help conduct. I believe you will find Rand will be concentrating on his core issues (the economy, monetary policy, health care reform and energy innovation) and continue to gather support. So if you're a Rand supporter here in KY and you're still on board then now is the time to stand up and lead the fight with only one goal: Victory 5-18-2010!

DOUBLE DOWN!

Your right on

It does seem like this is localized just here at DP. I am part of a large network on myspace and there is also not a peep of it there. Keep up the great work. We are working hard here in CT. to get Peter Schiff in...

"I don't want to be in a battle . . . but
waiting on the edge of one I can't escape
is even worse"

"I have found that being rich is not about having the most but about needing the least"