Tea Parties Suck, Pro-Peace, Pro Civil Liberties!!!!!! Is the way to go.
Submitted by Fedor on Fri, 11/20/2009 - 19:03
We need to get off the GOP train and start pro peace, pro civil liberties rallies. The tea parties are being used to divide us and put us in bed with the NeoCons. If we stop the wars and secure civil liberties, we will accomplish many of our goals and repulse the Neocons and religious right that support the wars. If we don't do this, the Liberty movement will be marginalized and ultimately defeated. Pro Peace, Pro Civil Liberties is something the majority of Americans will get behind.
»
Geez, I go off to an END the FED rally
and come back to see what happened on Fedor's "Tea parties suck thread" and everyone is now fighting. I really liked the idea of Pro-Peace and Pro-Civil Liberties, but agree with FedUp that the monetary issue needs to be factored in also. Before we went to the Dallas Fed from 2 -4 , we went down to Dealey Plaza from 12 -2 where lots of people were gathered to honor JFK's death to hand out info on the Fed and make sure our signs were seen by a lot more people. For the most part people were open to hearing the information. I would hand them a flyer and say we wanted to end the FED because they finance wars, big government and tyranny. If they were receptive I would say JFK wanted to end the Fed too.
I used Fedor's idea and added my own to make my sign.
It said:
Pro - Peace
Pro - Civil Liberties
Pro - Sound Money
RON PAUL
and the other side said:
END the FED
and WARS,
BIG GOV'T
and Tyranny
WILL CEASE
I had one guy before I could even get a word out say "I totally disagree" and another walk by look at my sign and sneer "Enjoy your free speech" I'm guessing both of these people were neocons that assumed I was a "liberal" because I want an end to the WAR and I was at the JFK event. lol. But, the feedback was positive more than anything else. I had at least 20 people take pics of me and my sign. Down at the FED, we got A LOT more honks and thumbs up than we got last year at this rally.
Why fight over this party thing....we don't have to pick a party. Why can't we just work for, donate and vote for candidates that stand up for the right principles? I will continue to attend GOP and tea-party things around here (highly Republican area) and try to educate people, but it sure doesn't mean I will support any candidates with my time, money or votes that aren't worthy. I always make it clear that these wars are WRONG. Undeclared, unconstitutional, illegal and immoral.
I hate to see people on this thread immediately shoot down the idea of another party...these are unusual times and ANYTHING is possible.
But Fedor, I also hate to see you shout down anyone that wants to stick with what their doing and feel that is working for them. It doesn't have to be "this way or the highway".
I care dude
I care enough that I hunted around for a power outlet at the airport, so I could stay connected long enough to let you know that I care.
I just left the airport bar, listening to a kid that just got back from Afghanistan. He was telling the story of how they pretty much filleted his arm open, so they could get metal plates onto both of the bones on his lower arm, to hold it together. IED attack for him. He said he was lucky, and will retain most of the use of that arm.
Later, I saw a guy missing one arm,,He looked to be about 25 years old. Missing an arm. I have no idea if he lost it in our "wars".But he was wearing cammo pants..And looked to be the right age.
The WAR issue, is a unifying Issue. the Tea parties are a divisive issue.
Auditing the FED is a unifying issue too. Concentrate on the UNIFYING issues.
We are looking for unifying issues.
Screw the tea parties..If Sean Hannity endorses them, they MUST be the wrong way to go.
"I don't endorse anything they say"
~Ron Paul On the 911 Truth movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k
Bump
for the expanding war in Afghanistan.
This is it.
We fight now or we lose. Obama is about to expand the war. If the Liberty movement does nothing. It's over. I'm gone and looking for a group of people that is honorable and courageous. Being linked to the Neocons/GOP is not honorable. These organizations need the wars. They want the wars. That will equal more taxes and less liberty. That is a fact. We will see real soon.
bump
bump for peace
bump
bump
bump
bump
Great post,
We will never be free until we rid ourselves of the false Left/Right Paradigm.
Are We Not BORN FREE !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK3y5z1u14w
Please Donate Today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDgz0rODZU&feature=g-upl
How
many members here really care?
Pretty much all Tea Partiers
Pretty much all Tea Partiers are anti tax, pro 2nd amendment, and comparatively skeptical of government, and the Fed, compared to most people these days. Not as skeptical as RP, and certainly as much as Lew Rockwell, but they are still a lot further along the road than most others out there. So, if we're to turn even those guys away for not being pure enough, we're really limiting our reach. Which might be fine if the purpose is only to have a movement to belong to, but not much so if we want to actually win elections.
And remember that Tea Party Lindsey Graham had in Greenville. Where he was heckled by people saying "Ron Paul is the only conservative"? I bet if you took a random sampling of Tea Party goers, the percentage who would support RP is a lot higher than amongst pretty much any other demographic, save libertarians and anarchists.
I think it will prove more fruitful to help many of these guys recognize that low taxes and limited government simply makes no room for wars, than to simply turn them away indiscriminately. Like RP says, we will eventually win that debate, even if it takes the country literally going broke to do so. But facts on the ground are, most Tea Partiers are people who work in competitively exposed private business. So they are paying taxes to support all the craziness the government are coming up with, and they're not paying it out of a government paycheck, or government transfer payments, or from make work made necessary only because of government regulation. Hence, they are a very natural constituency for smaller government activism. If we can only get them to realize they are the ones paying for the wars as well, and that the police officers and correctional system workers getting paid to fight drug wars are, for all their glorification on Fox, still nothing but a bunch of tax feeding public sector union leeches, more of them may come around to our point of view.
We need to go to these rallies with
information and educate them. The GOP leadership knows exactly what's its doing. We can't be linked to them or we lose. We can't reach our goals linked to the GOP and neocons. It is impossible.
Yes. Go to Tea Parties, and
Yes. Go to Tea Parties, and be informative. We need to unite, not divide.
Wrong.
We WILL NEVER CREATE A LIMITED GOVERNMENT AND SECURE OUR CIVIL LIBERTY IF WE UNITE WITH THE GOP AND NEOCONS. It is impossible. We need to unite with the millions of Americans who are undecided or disillusioned by the Obama admin. If we continue to be linked with the GOP and neocons, we will gain NOTHING. That is a guarantee.
The Tea Partiers are
The Tea Partiers are definitely disillusioned with the Obama administration, so that hurdle won't exclude them. And while many may not be undecided about the GOP, they are undecided about what kind of GOP. After all, even RP was GOP. As is Rand, who draws a lot of support from Tea Parties. On most issues, many Tea Partiers are on our side. Many are / were Ron Paul supporters.
In real life, the Tea parties are very different than what watching Fox and the rest of the MSM makes them out to be. Fox is obviously focusing their own "stars"' appearances, but that is not the norm. And the other networks, focus on the Fox personalities' involvement as well, as that age old bicker is what their audience wants to see. But in reality, despite their best efforts, Beck and Hannity are side shows, and not in any way representative of the Tea Parties. Instead they're just someone trying to cash in on the Tea Parties' organic popularity.
I don't think we should step away
but engage in conversation and expanding the goals. If tea parties are not for some then by all means branch out eventually, our message will be so refined and well thought out it would be hard for anyone to turn their backs to it. Also, it would become VERY hard to infiltrate and lead astray.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
I totally agree with that.
I totally agree with that. If all those who voted for Obama because he was the "Peace candidate" gets really fed up waiting, and starts having rallies like the Tea Partiers, we should be there as well. I'm almost surprised how few betrayed Obama supporters are getting vocal about this. It almost seems they have the same sports team mentality that Hannity has, of lining up behind and excusing whatever "their side" happen to be doing. And now, it is all about not breaking ranks, lest Health Care gets derailed. Once that debacle is over, chances are Obama's strategy team brings Cap and Trade into focus, to keep his coalition from breaking up over peace.
Just like the working American taxpayers who are being directly harmed by the Fed's inflationary wealth transfers are a natural constituency for our End the Fed message, so are Peace activists. Like RP always notes, wars are the most inflationary events in all of history, and without a means to inflate, funding aggressive wars becomes nearly impossible. I hope the HuffPo crowd who seem to now be coming around to Paul's side of 1207 continues down that path. But right now, they are so hung up on beating the Republicans in "Health Care Bowl 2010", that everything else is being put aside. And on that one issue, the Tea Partiers, and even the Neo Cons, are more on our side than the "force everyone against their will to pay for needlessly expensive plans so that unionized health care workers can get away with demanding more perks" Democrats.
The Left and Right Love and Need War
*cross posting this here for 'fed up'
Why are we sacrificing the lives of young men and women, fathers and mothers who are fighting against an unnamed country? We’re not at war with Iraq or Afghanistan, but with an enemy that has no country, “Al Qaida.” It’s a war that is impossible to win while at the same time we are inspiring a larger enemy because of killing innocent men, women and children while going after enemy targets. Collateral damage has its effects.
http://fedupbook.com/blog/war-on-terror/the-left-and-right-l...
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/115619
*****
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
In the end, it's still Left vs. Right. Each have their problem
Thanks for posting this Liberty_Belle...
I've read through some of the comments here and feel I have solutions that can help. Unfortunately I can't disclose some of them quite yet but I can share a general view of things as I see them (which may differ than anyone else's, but remember, we're trying to move towards the same Freedom goals).
I had convinced my parents to the words of Ron Paul during the election last year and they saw the light of what was happening. After the election I didn't have much of a conversation with them about Ron Paul or politics in general. The seeds of destruction had set in.
Next thing I know, they are actively involved in the Tea Party movement.
I think this movement started around March if I'm not mistaken. Around March the market was hitting bottom and people were pretty much "Fed Up" with what was going on.
What I learned is that the Tea Party folks describe themselves as "independent" for the most part. But in reality, just like Sean Hannity's now using the word "conservative" rather than "Republican," they are still the right and the Dems are still the enemy.
Putting on a different hat isn't going to make them vote differently. In the end, it's still Left vs. Right. Each have their problems.
Until that dynamic changes, I believe that those of us who understand the Freedom Movement will be continually pressed to choose a side to try and convince their point of view is flawed and ours is the correct one. But without rule changes to allow debates of 3rd party candidates, we have Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff etc., choosing to go with the Right rather than the left. Why?
The answer to me is because of the two things that were left out of the "PRO" equation; Economics and monetary policy.
Pro Peace and Pro Civil Liberties can take you so far, but it is big government, the Fed, lobbyists relationships, union relationships, deficit spending, and the list goes on, that need to be addressed.
As you all know, eliminating the Federal Reserve and returning to sound money can take care of the "pro peace" issue. Our government could not afford to go to war or maintain a presence in 130 nations if the money wasn't printed out of thin air to do so and had to come from the tax base only.
That's why more than any other issue, Ron Paul wants to "End the Fed."
Since 75% want this to occur, both Left and Right, I believe this to be the issue that people need to concentrate on. This gives the movement strength.
In July I wrote an article that was meant to prove my point that the mouth pieces of the Right, primarily Limbaugh and Hannity, are misleading the Right with their lack of mentioning Ron Paul's Audit the Fed bill: http://fedupbook.com/blog/federal-reserve/why-dont-limbaugh-...
It is through this type of exposure that I hope to win over the neo-conservative, brainwashed right, to their old roots of Limited Government, Fiscal Conservativism, Personal Liberty and eventually educate them to what a "strong national defense" really means. The goal to be to take back their Party from those who hijacked it.
I am just one person, but I didn't give up my 20 year financial career not make a difference. It was a shock to me to see what happened to Ron Paul during his Presidential campaign. I couldn't understand why he didn't want to run as a 3rd party candidate to get his message to more people, but eventually I learned why. Because it's impossible under the current system for a 3rd party to prevail. The rules are against such.
We know there will never be a perfect candidate (outside of Ron Paul) who espouses what all of us Paulites believe, which can be a belief system for complete opposite reasons. But we do know that choosing a side that promotes socialism is something that Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, etc., could never do. Reforming the Right is the only option in my humble opinion.
But not Hannity's "conservative" right mantra that includes his lust for war. The way to get the Tea Party on the right track is to keep exposing the economic weakness of the Left. But at the same time, mandating that the candidate for the Right will hold true to fiscal responsibility. Not George W. Bush fiscal responsibility, but fiscal responsibility that any educated (as opposed to brainwashed) individual can get behind.
No candidate can hold to fiscal responsibility until the means to which they are allowed to spend more than they have loophole is closed. That being the Federal Reserve.
This would tie the hands of all candidates.
Now you know the hidden meaning of the title of my forthcoming book; "Fed Up!"
My first blog, January of 2008 was in support of Ron Paul and his "message." The Ron Paul rEVOLution, Super Tuesday and “The Message!” http://fedupbook.com/blog/federal-reserve/the-ron-paul-revol...
Not much has changed since I posted that. It's still about the "message" and "eliminating the tool of destruction, the Federal Reserve."
Of course everything I write is open to discussion.... I don't claim to know it all....No one can...
My Christian/Political Blog:
We the Serfs! Blog
Let's see how many "teapartiers"
are at End the Fed rallies today. I'm betting close to none. Most don't even have a basic understanding of the fraud that is the FED or of the true tenets of freedom.
Someone should report on that....
Yes TexaslovesRonPaul...I just addressed that above and you make a good point.
Maybe people can ask the ones at the End the Fed gatherings if anyone was also at the Tea Party gatherings.....
Blog: http://fedupbook.com/blog
My Christian/Political Blog:
We the Serfs! Blog
should be
interesting.
"Tea Party" is too generic...try
Constitution rallies
Debt-free rallies
End the Fed rallies
Founding Principle rallies
I don't like the title "Pro Peace" because it, like Tea Party, can be hijacked.
And "Pro civil liberties" is too vague, too confusing. it sounds like civil rights.
Pro Peace, Pro Liberty
Pro Freedom. Pretty simple.
Fedor~watch the videos I posted below!
*****
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
We Will Not Be Silenced
Inspirational videos for Peace and Justice
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB_Jbr8R8XU&NR=1
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWPNF5KfAtY&feature=related
*********************
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Yes, yes, yes!
I agree with you Fedor- this is what Ron Paul is all about Pro-Peace, Pro-Liberty....Take the anti-Obama, anti-Democrat, anti-liberal, anti-whatever out of the picture. We must work together with members from all parties that are for peace and liberty. By the way...where are all the anti-war demonstration of late, where is "code pink"? The liberty movement has been infiltrated and is being swallowed up in Republican double speak. They all keep claiming they are so for the Constitution and so for liberty...but in the next breath they say "we must win in Afghanistan" Our voices are getting drowned out with all these Tea Parties, and Palin this, and Palin that everywhere, and I'm sick of it too.
I really wish that the system wasn't so set up against third parties, that they can't get in the debates, because anyone with an R behind their name is now unfortunately going to be lumped in with the rest and it will make it harder to get the people that lean toward Democrats to even take a look at them. I'm sure that this was the plan all along though, to kill the liberty movement started by Ron Paul.
I agree.
This is a FACT. THEY CAN'T WIN. The Neocons and GOP will FAIL. Their agenda is based on lies and bullshit. They can NEVER achieve limited government and lower taxes. It is IMPOSSIBLE. You can't lower taxes while you continue undeclared wars around the globe. You can't secure civil liberties while you MUST defend against the consequences of fighting undeclared wars around the globe. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. We are wasting our time and money if we stay on the GOP Tea Party/Anti Obama/government path. This will be a fatal mistake. I am absolutely certain.
Fedor
I made some sweat shirts with your idea. I like your idea. The tea parties may still be good to try give hand out to educate people.
http://www.zazzle.com/quiltingsando/gifts
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
These are just totally awesome quilting!
I just finished my End the FED sign.
Side 1:
End the FED
and WARS,
BIG GOV'T
and Tyranny
WILL CEASE
Side 2:
Pro-Peace
Pro-Civil Liberties
Pro-Sound Money
Ron Paul
Very nice.
Lets see if anyone listens.