Kentucky is NOT the 14th District of Texas
I don't believe in Voting or Lobbying SAVE keeping one educator in office -- One Man at the Hot Gates
That being said. For those of you who do believe in Voting and Lobbying (though it's never worked once in history because the very act is an "act" of abdication or theft) you should give Rand a break.
He does not live in the most liberty loving district (on planet earth) -- The 14th District of Texas (Ron Paul does not live there for some "passive reason").
Kentucky voted predominately for McCain - Palin
-----Thus the courting of Palin
Kentucky is a Pro-Farming Subsidy-Seeking State (they are not pot smoking porn-loving Libertarians) -- this is the Bible Belt; "big guns and big women"
Kentucky was a hold-out Bush supporter more than even Texas; which means they are pro-war and anti-terrorists. Protectionary-Militaristic-Welfarists.
Can-Tuckee -- is not an easy state to win.
Regardless of what he says now -- He will be Ron Paul's son in office.
Counter-Economics and ZERO Abdication is how you keep a Free-Society and how you get into One. This thread is for those of you who think you can Abdicate your Authority to Elected Officials and for the restoration of DP-Calm.
Rand is becoming a "rift" issue.
"Voting and Lobbying (though it's never worked once in history"
These are two weapons used successfully by TPTB to overthrow the Constitution and why we are currently slaves to their systems. Although, the American people have been asleep at the wheel for some 96 years, we are starting to finally wake up. What is coming out of CC2009 (Articles of Freedom) is educational and pro-active. Promoting pro-constitutional candidates is educational and pro-active. Promoting counter-economics is educational and pro-active. We little people can bring down this huge Gulliver by placing our eggs in many different baskets.
"Be wary of those who know the truth. Align yourself with those who are questing for the truth." L. Gardner
"Be wary of those who know the truth. Align yourself with those who are questing for the truth." L. Gardner
Someguy: Well said -- hear hear!
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
OctoBox
Do you think Rand is just saying things to get elected?
IMO that is a worse offense.
AMC: Yes -- people who want to get elected couch their language
to win.
In the case of Ron Paul being from the 14th District of Texas he can talk in purely Free-Market terms -- because that is the most liberty minded place in the U.S.
Rand and everyone else must adjust their speech to conform with the mentality of the people who can/will put them into office.
When I go for an executive position I don't point out my weaknesses, I over-sell on the positive side. I did the same thing with my wife when I was courting her - hahahaha.
It's human nature -- give them what they want to hear and mix in concepts of liberty (to educate them), deeper education can come later.
I strongly disagree with voting and lobbyting.
It can never EVER produce Liberty.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
That is exactly what RP did...IMO
As smart as RP is, as long as he has been in DC, and consistant with what his core platform is about... do you really believe that he believes that 911 was carried out by a cavedwelling billionaire with a laptop? Of course RP knows that 911 was a staged event carried out as a pretext to war and oppression as written in the PNAC report... RP even stressed concern that ANOTHER staged event could occur as a pretext to expand the war and further take away domestic civil liberties. If RP had said this during the campaign... the media would have disregarded everything else and focused on that and the campaign would not have been the success it was.
I hearing DP'ers go as far as to say that RP jr is a neo-con!! C'mon people. Can someone gimme some proof that RP jr is pro-war?
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
No Ron Paul
Is a medical doctor. He is intelligent and understands how things works. That pretty much excludes him from being a truth er.
Where have you been?
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/11/12/qa-with-rand-paul-s...
Washington Wire: What should happen in Afghanistan?
Paul: I support a declaration of war in Afghanistan. We have to now determine what our mission is. It’s become somewhat murky.
Can I just say , Thanks and
Can I just say , Thanks and i appreciate your train of thought.
I don't see Rand becoming a
I don't see Rand becoming a "Rift Issue" as a problem. It would be fairly frightening if everyone on this site agreed with each other on every issue 100% of the time.
The real question is:
Can you be a member on the DP and express discontent with Rand and some of his positions?
An-Cap-aaron: Rothbard aside -- I have no problems with Rand
I was commenting on the fermenting rift -- I've seen them develop here before.
We don't have to agree -- I love to debate and if everone agreed with me I'd leave the site, hahahaha.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
You know what Octocbox,
If you don't believe in voting or lobbying, then what the hell are you doing here?
How much did you contribute to Rand Paul?
You are either with us or against us, make up your damn mind.
Very few here are going to follow you to the DailyOctobox.
Why don't you try fighting for what you believe in? Or is what you believe in fighting against Rand Paul and the Daily Paul.
You want to be a leader? I wouldn't follow you to free food.
You have told us that you are trying to spread your agenda, but guess what the members of the Paul family have talked the talk and walked the walk, they are who I trust, not someone trying to sow dissent.
We have our leaders. Either follow and help, or get the hell out of the way.
Please Donate Today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDgz0rODZU&feature=g-upl
SirFelix: Emote much? Have you been drinking?
You pretty much misintrepreted my entire post -- are you drinking? This seems un-like you.
Anyway -- What I am saying (above) is "Give Rand a Break"
He's not in the 14th District -- Kentucky requires a different approach.
I did not donate to Rand Paul.
I do not believe in voting save for Ron Paul -- I will vote for his successor (he has not named one) when he has stepped down.
I have an "agenda" -- It's true and lasting liberty.
Voting outside of One Public Educator (Ron Paul) "for me" is an Abdication of Self-Rule.
We hire a Welfarist Paid individual who "collectivizes" in Congress to grant right-seekers that which they are seeking -- This creates perpetual-war (Trotsky's Dream).
Even if the goal is Constitutionalism -- because there are Voter Winners and Voter Losers you get perpetual war.
You cannot vote in liberty -- You can't war it in.
You can have liberty only by LIVING it -- Counter-Economics (according to Mises).
Voting is also the Theft of another's right to self-rule: It does not matter what the truth is -- It is a force-agent (gov't) granting and taking rights (permissions - taxes - currency value). Regardless how righteous it is ALWAYS un-righteous to prohibit free-will.
Lobbying is the Purchasing of Votes (of the collectivized leaders) -- again this can never be righteous.
Now I make only ONE exception (Ron Paul) -- because Americans need an Educator.
To grow a Party -- Even a Liberty Party is to declare war (voting and lobbying) against Repubs and Demos -- This can ONLY EVER lead to bigger gov't.
This is historical fact -- deal with it.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
I'm curious about ...
how you would elaborate your opinion to the following. Since the perpetual war exists between voter winners and losers whether you choose to participate in the system or not, by not voting are you not abdicating the defense of your own liberty by those who will take it through the ballot?
Fritz: No
The system can never work because it requires perfection in regards to counting and honesty -- we ask to much of the system. The latter is true on multiple levels -- right-seeking kind of "asking"
Counter-Economics:
ZERO Voting
ZERO Lobying
Buy Local
---Organic Food
---Free-Range and Grass Fed Meat and Dairy
---Services
---Products
Hire under-the-table as much as possible
---Try the handy-man network
Work under-the-table as much as possible
---Become a self-contractor
---I've turned every job (on the books) I ever had into a self-contractors role
Develop Local Trade
---Local under-the-table credit/currency
---Work with local Indian Reservations (they can get away with a lot of "off the books" activity)
There are a lot of ideas in the Counter-Economics world and the innovation is limitless (from corporatism to ever-new liberty).
If 20,000,000 people worked on all or most of those Big Gov't, the Fed, Corporatism (et al) would come crashing down.
It's easy to understand if you've read enough Mises and understand what it takes to maintain a free-society -- the path to it is identical.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Thank you for your reply.
I agree with the counter-economic measures you outlined above if I understand the premise correctly. Please point out if I have it wrong in any way. That is, if we get off the established grid insofar as possible and engage in laissez-faire economic activity as free men and women we will naturally (and without coercion, force or violence) supplant the current system of debt-slavery. A state of true liberty, therefore, would ultimately persevere. If I have that basically correct, then we could and should do all of those things. Personally, I think that if we removed ourselves from the banking-lending institutions and eschewed the use of the fiat currency en-masse, that it would be crippling to the machine though I'm not sure if that is part and parcel of what you are proposing.
I'm hoping though that you will comment furher as to why not voting is beneficial. It is true that we cannot "vote in liberty" since it is inherent and not granted by the government. The harsh reality is that big government does exist, it will further corrupt itself, and it will attempt further to infringe on our liberty. If you or I or Ron Paul were elected to represent liberty minded people, and we did not support any measure that limited liberty and opposed any that did, how would that not be defending it? It may be naive to think we can effect any positive change to a corrupt system. I also understand that there are some who do not wish to immerse themselves in the dirty political process. However, are those who wish to oppose tyranny within the existing system merely misguided or are they sullied by the process in your opinion?
Fritz: I rarely get thoughtful replies -- I appreciate it
You have all the answers in your post.
It is naive to think applying methods that have never worked will ever work.
---correct ;-)
You cannot vote in liberty because the very act of voting is to abdicate ones self-rule for collective rule.
---correct ;-)
Well; they are sullied by their District -- Ron Paul is from the strongest most liberty loving District in the U.S; there's no accident why he moved there. Look at Rand, he is "bending" his views to fit in with Kentucky Welfarist and Pro-War mentality.
Now that being said, it does not matter because the act of voting is not liberty causing it only strips others of their perception of liberty. It is perpetual war because there are always winners - losers - and revenge (blow back).
Yes -- If we eschewed ourselves (etc) we would be free and that is part of Counter-Economics -- Bank Locally at the very least. We should have floating casinoes in international waters that serve as banks that provide some sort of e-trade or e-credits. I often thought Indian Gaming Casinoes could be utilized in this way -- I want to look into any loopholes in this regard.
Ron Paul's role is that of Public Educator -- he has said this himself; that's why he's there.
---Correct ;-)
We only need one at a time. I'll except whomever he comes up with as a successor.
If we vote or lobby beyond "the one" then we are part of the problem -- we are "warring" at that point. No lasting peace/liberty can come from war.
It's based on Wisdom and Refusal to participate in slavery or it is nothing.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Wow -- The "sensitivity" of the recent posters
I never said Libertarians were 100% Pot Smoking Porn-Loving -- That's how Libertarians are perceived because libertarians are for ZERO Internet Porn regulation and ZERO Drug Laws
I just thought it was a funny way of saying it -- hahahaha
I also said it to remind everyone that Kentucky is the "Bible" belt -- there's how people behave behind closed doors and how they behave publically. These people voted McCain/Palin and come out Pro-Flag-Lovin and Pro-War (anti-terrorist anyway).
What I said is accurate regardless the emotional responses.
I'm trying to point out the un-necessary "rift" the Rand issue is getting.
I'm not in favor of voting but I am in favor of Liberty -- one does not nor has it ever derived the other.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
(they are not pot smoking
(they are not pot smoking porn-loving)
I stopped reading after that. Thanks for the label considering I don't smoke pot nor drink.
That's Hillarious given your Username (hahahahahaha)
Pot Smoking (anti-drug law)
Porn Loving (anti-internet censorship)
The speed of your computer and internet was largely built off of porn-dollars -- whether you like the product or not.
It is and has been the largest growth sector on the internet.
I'm not going to argue with you -- There's 6billion people on this planet, hahahaha.
In 2001 there were 21,000,000 "unique" (not the pepeat crowd) visitors to porn sites.
Porn and Video games drive computing power -- there's no doubt about it.
None of that was my point, but your fixation on porn is very revealing, hahahaha.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Oxycontin (Hillbilly Heroin)
Don't forget, they love their pills too.
Please !!!
Octobox, you test the limit of our patience with your condescending lectures and eccentric, unintelligible writing. Not only is your meaning totally obscure most of the time, you punctuate and capitalize as if you are inventing a new language. What good is it if no one understands you? Talk to yourself if you want to overhaul the english language, but have the courtesy to do it in private, and not subject a whole forum to your gibberish.
At the VERY least, use learn how to use the words "abdicate" and "abdication," correctly, without fail, since you use these words almost every single time you write something. Abdicate is a transitive verb and must be followed by a direct object.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_verb
You cannot simply "abdicate," you have to abdicate something. In this post, you managed to use the word correctly, but you usually don't. How many times have you commanded us to "Stop abdicating!"?
Likewise, when you speak of abdication, for clarity you must specify what is being abdicated. Abdication of what?
Wishing you well, but feeling the point has to be made.
Pseudonym: You are funny and emotional and entertaining
Voting is an Abdication of Self-Rule (it hires someone who is paid by welfarist means who in turn promises to grant you advantages, rights, or liberty)
Voting is Theft because in the promising of the above someone else (collectivist transference of cost) must "lose" (there's only one pie and it only divides up so many ways).
I've never "commanded" you -- That's emotional tripe.
You are free to ignore my posts and when you say "you commanded us" you are pre-supposing that you are a leader of some collectivist group who chose you to speak to Van Helsing about his Marauding.
Sorry my wife is watching Buffy Dvd and vampires flew into my mind.
Since I disproved part of your post I'll spare the rest -- try silence or try being argumentative rather than emotionalism.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Octo, you work as a contractor to the police department, right?
I think you mentioned that before.
"I believe the true significance of the Gold Commission is that the politicians and central bankers were so alarmed at such a thing that they made sure it was packed by an array of Keynesians and monetarists." (Ron Paul 1985)
Yes and No: I sub-contract out to groups who provide
non-profit dollars to military and police to get training not covered under their "normal" budget.
I'm what you call a "discrete" civilian contractor (or sub-contractor).
I teach defensive tactics, conscious-sleep, tension and emotion master.
I've trained a lot of Navy Seals, Gang Task Force, SWAT Snipers, Prison Guards, Private Security, and Bouncers.
I'm better at coaching then I am at fighting now -- I used to be 50/50, but now I must admit that I can't keep up with the younglings like I could even just 5 years ago. I really have no desire either, I worked all that out.
I like to focus on conscious-sleep and tension master -- but the demand for my particular style of defensive tactics is growing, hahahaha.
The DT I teach was designed for non-lethal arrest and control -- it is highly effective; unlike Karate or Kick Boxing or Wrestling (Jujitsu) -- these arts are not as effective because they try to stay focused on sport application and 1st Responders have a completely different goal and equipment issues.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Since you speak in the imperative case
so often, i.e. do this, don't do that, the word "command" is perfectly fitting.
Your jargon is trashing up this site, that's what I was saying.
Pseudonym: Marie -- Can you hear yourself?
Who are you speaking for? The collective?
There is no "we" in individualism unless you understand liberty -- then the collective we becomes I-and-I (the many I's) -- the I's have it, smile.
Look man, I don't hate you -- I don't want you kicked off the site, but either debate me directly or continue what you have been doing -- nothing.
Can you link me to an intelligent post of yours -- I'll go over there and reply to it. I'll give you a free lesson on how to conduct yourself as a competitive being.
I use "command" language when I'm trying to be concise
----Going forward I will try not to use those phrases
Now you try to be less sensitive -- Coaches (which I'm a 25 year coach) use "command" language -- however we don't recruit off the street; people "volunteer" and on this site it's 100% voluntary.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
More nonsense.
Keep your lessons on "how to be a competitive being," Kevin. My point wasn't to compete with you but to try and persuade you to stop your Emily Dickinson-style punctuation, and to ask you to stop pontificating like you are actually the anointed sage of this place. If you want to disseminate your obtuse poetry, put it on a poetry site, why don't you?
As for debating you, what's there to debate? You have your little sermons that you spew and you refuse to listen to others or concede any points. Plus, you make almost no sense half the time. Nothing to debate.
Pseudonym: You have lost the point of free-speech
I have wonderful debates in here all the time -- just not with you.
You have an axe to grind with me and it's personal -- maybe someone in your life who does not "listen" to you sounds like me?
I'm willing to listen if you want to chat -- remember you started the face-slapping contest, the difference is I'm polite to you.
You have a problem with individualism -- I'm a self-agrandizer and come from an ego-centric perspective.
Unlike you I embrace the fact that I-ness is impossible to escape, that we perceive everything from the individual and never from the collective.
Believe in yourself, gain knowledge, learn to meditate, and then speak from your heart -- without fear.
I'm on DP to "practice" my liberty dialogue -- mostly to practice becoming more and more concise in my arguments. My original posts were very long and it took me a long time to break peoples arguments down.
I'm getting faster and it takes less time -- it helped a lot to read Mises and meditate on Consumer-Individualism.
I could help you in this regard.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
No
You are not polite. You are patronizing and presumptuous. I have no problem with individualism- in fact, I often stand ALONE on threads arguing that Rand's pro-war stance is objectionable, while the throngs attack me. You, on the other hand, are conforming to the majority- the "collective"- for no discernible purpose. If you are against voting, why try and influence anything that pertains to voting?
You say things like, "The DP is in full retard mode." Comments like that stem for your habitual rudeness. The smiley faces you plunk at the end don't fool anyone.
Good luck making your "liberty dialogue" shorter. I don't need your help with that- you'll notice my posts are shorter than yours already.
"You are not polite. You are
"You are not polite. You are patronizing and presumptuous."
It cracks me up when the words one uses condemns themselves. LOL!