Dems got their 60 - Tonight they high-five / we lose more freedom
Submitted by Buzz on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 17:23
WASHINGTON - Democrats on Saturday clinched the votes needed to advance the Senate's version of President Obama's health care overhaul to the floor for a historic debate scheduled to begin shortly after 8 p.m..
Sen. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas was the last of three Democratic holdouts to announce her support for the procedural vote. Earlier, Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana said she would support the debate, one day after Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska announced his intent to vote yes.
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/21/senate-crucial-vote/
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Vote Summary
An almost strait party line vote.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_c...
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"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon
Not even almost. The only
Not even almost. The only Republican who didn't vote no abstained. All Democrats voted yes.
This is not the final vote on this Bill in the Senate...
This vote was merely to consider this Bill for vote, and make any amendments for the real vote which will occur after the Thanksgiving break, and that will be done in like 2 weeks. There is still hope, there are still a lot of Dems, and one Independent that will not vote Yea if the Public option, or the abortion portion are not included, or visa versa. Have faith that they will do the right thing okay. Do not give up hope, and do not stop contacting your Senators, please.
correct
but there is no stopping this steamroller.
Maybe we can refocus on the house when they merge the bills, but they will put something in it for all the potential holdouts
Yes. From what I
Yes. From what I understand, this was a vote on "cloture," or a vote on whether or not to have debate about the bill.
Tess
I hate to break it to you, but this thing is a done deal. Getting a simple majority of these criminals to pass criminal legislation is simple as pie.
There's no stopping this crap. They do what they want and make the idiots believe they know what they are doing. I'm in agreement with the posts below, let's get on with it. Bring the whole colossal house of cards down and start over.
Miamisburg, Montgomery County, Ohio
"In my first reading, I
"In my first reading, I support parts of the bill and oppose others I will work to fix. If that's not possible, I will oppose the second cloture motion -- needing 60 votes -- to end debate, and oppose the final bill," Nelson said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/health-care-bill-senate-key-v...
second half of that quote
"But I won't slam the doors of the Senate in the face of Nebraskans now. They want the health care system fixed. The Senate owes them a full and open debate to try to do so."
These people are deluded enough to think they can "fix" health care for their constituents. They will debate, they will vote and they will pass...something. I've watched these demagogues in action long enough to draw that conclusion, just look at the recent banker bailout fiasco, and the constituents didn't even want that one.
The question we all know the answer to is this. Will government fix health care? The only question remaining is just how bad they're going to screw us.
Miamisburg, Montgomery County, Ohio
I just quoted it to show
I just quoted it to show that there is one more chance to stop this unless the stop debate gets 60 votes as well.
I'm sure something will pass. My bet is on a very weak, if at all, public option, likely with a states opt out clause. I like that, for the precedent it will be setting. Secession, even if limited and only from specific legislation, is the way forward. It will make it easier for CA to opt out of Marijuana laws, and MT to opt out of gun laws. We might, if maximally lucky, be able to turn Obama and the Dems' desperation at having to show their voters they passed "something" into a precedent that can be expanded upon later.
The big, big negative will be the individual mandate to buy not just "insurance", but government approved, managed care "insurance." Only those under 29 will be able to purchase catastrophic only, which is the only insurance that makes any sense at all for most people. Its cheap, and automatically helps hold down health costs, by showing people the full cost of their chosen treatment, encouraging shopping around for the best deal. But, of course, it doesn't make enough money for Lieberman's Aetna nor the other Dems' health sector unionized workforces to play well with the bough and paid for crowd.
For those steely enough who believe in civil disobedience, any managed care plan can be blown to pieces by just going to the doctor every f'ing day and paying the ridiculously low, subsidized co-pay rate. That will force a fast fail of the whole charade, as either budgets will blow up, or rationing will become apparent pretty much immediately, not some time later, under a different administration. But that does take some strong conviction, as you will quickly be accused of denying the opportunity of care to others for purely political purposes. Kind of like unionized nurses and other health care workers do when they strike, just less politically correct.
But, maybe, just maybe, some enlightened state legislature, even if motivated solely by a desire to ruin it for Obama Rush style, will decide to unilaterally opt out of that one too. That could be the beginning of something good.
What will you do to keep this from happening?
An excellent question.
This is why I have dubbed the Health Care bill "the Intolerable Act."
Leaving aside Anderson's arguable proposition that the Founders intended the Senate to be the arbiters of our fate, the fact of the matter is that both versions of the bill, Senate and House, contain the same hand grenade: the compulsory participation of all citizens.
By what authority in the Constitution is this possible? There is no such language and they cannot credibly twist the plain words to their purposes.
This is merely the argument of force. THEY have decided that WE will ALL play their tyrannical game or WE will pay the consequences of our refusal.
Socialism enforced at the barrel of a federal gun is communism and it is tyranny. It is, in fact, the final breakdown of the Founders' system that they inserted the Second Amendment to deal with.
It does not matter if the Senate removes the incarceration clause, or reduces the fine. Whatever the final language of the bill this is certain: We WILL be compelled to participate OR ELSE.
But I do not think that these arrogant sods understand what "or else" really means.
For, as I have said many times before, when democracy turns to tyranny, those who possess firearms still get to vote.
Ironic, isn't it? That a so-called "health care bill" could lead to armed resistance, death and civil war? Yet that is the hand grenade within this Intolerable Act. They should have tried harder to disarm us first.
But they made a fundamental mistake. They thought all the real Americans of the cut of the Founders were dead and buried and all that remained was Europeanized sheep to be easily herded about.
I think they will find out to their eternal sorrow that they were dead wrong.
We return then to Judge Napolitano's question:
"When Congress takes away our freedoms, they will be gone forever. What will you do to prevent this from happening?"
Look in the mirror and ask yourself, "What will you do?"
Mike Vanderboegh
The alleged leader of a merry band of Three Percenters
GeorgeMason1776@aol.com
sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com
Read Mike's blog, he's entertaining and smart...
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/11/no-fort-s...
The Window War~by Mike Vanderboegh
This is a good read of his...
http://www.lizmichael.com/windowwa.htm
*****
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
excerpt
"America has been split into two hostile ideological camps. One is the anti-communist or anti-statist camp, which looks to traditional moral values, the Constitution, a strong family unit and the free market. The other camp is socialist or "progressive" in its outlook, globalist and environmentalist in its policies.""
That is an an amazing story.
That is an an amazing story. I enjoyed every word.
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........ (sorry wrong reply)
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"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon
The liberals still have
The liberals still have faith in their government................ after all the civil rights fights..... after all the wars...... after 8 years of GWB...... after the assasination of JFK because he wanted to fight the FED...... after the patriot act.... after the attack on the middle class and poor for over 90 years.......... after the drug war.......... after all of this they want to double down by supporting bigger government....
How sad....
http://www.meetup.com/RP2012GrandJunctionCO
Let the country collapse. It
Let the country collapse. It is the only way we can rebuild from scratch. Incrementalism takes too long for what we all want.
You Judge A Tree By It's Fruit, NOT its Flower
Ira Freeman...
I must say I do agree with you, but the actual vote for this bill has not been passed, this was sort of a prelimary vote on whether they should even vote on it after Thanksgiving break.
yup
I'm with you on that.
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"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon
Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle
WASHINGTON – Invoking the memory of Edward M. Kennedy, Democrats united Saturday night to push historic health care legislation past a key Senate hurdle over the opposition of Republicans eager to inflict a punishing defeat on President Barack Obama. There was not a vote to spare.
The 60-39 vote cleared the way for a bruising, full-scale debate beginning after Thanksgiving on the legislation, which is designed to extend coverage to roughly 31 million who lack it, crack down on insurance company practices that deny or dilute benefits and curtail the growth of spending on medical care nationally.
Continued
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
Can anyone else post a new topic, I can't?
this is NOT the end, those
this is NOT the end, those demo's can still vote it down on the floor, keep up the pressure.
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato
From what I know, they now only need a simple majority ...
to pass this mother-of-all-treasons bill. That means only 51 votes needed.
We should start funeral arrangements.
Why bother?
just let Pelosi deal with our bodies.
I don't want to be in a mass grave.
I don't like that.
Darn it SteveMT...
I thought you were talking about graves for these corrupt Senators, and Congressman when all their constituents hang them.
but we'll all be together
I'm sure they have a pit already picked out for the patriot movement.
Furlough: If they had one for just DPers,I wouldn't mind at all
being in there with you guys.
Peace.
It's over: 60 to 39
The darkness deepens.
This is treason of the highest order.
God help us all to do the right thing when the time comes.
Sucks when
politicians can buy off other politicians with OUR money. We have created a monster. Bastards.
Let the legal challenges begin.
This Republic is TOAST!
At this time in our history...why not welcome every attempt by the TPTB to limit our so called freedoms? The sooner that the people realize this is complete BS, the sooner we can change things for the better!