De-Centralization VS Centralization

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I have a thought to share with you. I hope you like it, make it your own, and get lots of milage with it. Let me know how it goes. Heres the thought.

Often, the way one approaches a subject is more important than the specific subject. For instance, if we just ask, "Is it better (physically, morally, ethically, pragmatically, etc) to have our human society decentralized as much as possible, or centralized as much as possible? With that question, we can put our Binoculars on to see far and wide, and we can put our microscopes on to see detail by detail.

From a Binocular point of view, we can see that many times human history has provided us with examples of Centrally planned and Controlled societies and very decentralized ones. From a Microscope point of view, we can also look inside each society and see various levels and then ask the same question of each level of organization. For instance, food preparation and delivery systems. In China 1965 vs China 2005, we can see two different systems. See the movie called To Live for an excellent example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Live_%28film%29 Communal "food kitchens" where tried under the guiding philosophy of communism, and it was believed to be a more efficient way. Why have whole villages just provide one Food Kitchen for all? Food Distribution went from a decentralized provision system, ie individual household, to a centralized village Food Kitchen system.

We can look at many things in society through these two lens and ask, "IS CENTRALIZATION system of product delivery better than a DeCENTRALIZED system?"

Currently the debate in the USA is over semi-centralized 3rd party pays medical system, to taking it all the way to a fully centralized system. May I suggest, to be more effective advocates for those without health care, as well as those burdened under the current system, we suggest we will get BETTER Results if we move to a fully decentralized medical system? Couching the issue in terms of Centralization vs DeCentralization, may ....just may change the nature of the debate today. Terms such as Government Care vs Privatization, do not make the case clearly enough. It has been my experience that liberals do not like Centralized anything, yet love government Care everything. Ironic, illogical, double think? Certainly but by pointing the direction of one of their favorite word terms, "localism".."homegrown"...ie, its best which happens naturally from the bottom up, rather than dictates from the top down, keeps the issue alive. Terms that are out of bounds (out of bounds because they hold different meanings and FEELINGS are such terms as free market, free enterprise, capitalism, national care, etc) should not be used, and instead, all issues framed in the decentralized vs Centralized format.

Take the claim that the Federal Reserve should be "nationalized" to "spread its profits to us all". Again those that support Fed Nationalization should be asked, is it not better to move in a decentralized monetary system where in no one has power and profits are decentralized? I mean, to nationalize the Fed would mean Centralization of monetary power, something we have now with the current banking cartel. How can MORE centralization of power be a move in the right direction? The idea that profits from this operation would be spread far and wide, that is decentralized, is idealistic at best, and not within our human experience. Examples do not abound. If monetary creation and interest rates are fully decentralized, the masses would be empowered and the elites would have nothing over them.

So, you may wish to plug in the DeCentralization VS Centralization argument to any subject that comes along. Try it, and see how well it is received.

How about Protection? Our founding fathers COULD have had a Standing Fully Paid for Military, like Britain and France and Spain, but they chose to diffuse this power of protection throughout the land via the right to self defense as found in the 2nd amendment. Now how decentralized did they mean to make it. Obviously State run "well regulated militias" was pretty decentralized when compared to the British, French, and Spanish models of nationally paid for Standing Armies & Navies. Yet the Founders felt that through that DeCentralization of self defense, the communal desires for self defense would be met. Should the Founders have gone further in the way of DeCentralization? Did they go further?

You see, framing the issue in this way, may..... MAY make many come to see the light. Staying away from terms often used on the Right and on the Left, is a good way to help those who may be thinking about the issue from a level of concern that you may not have or that your words do not address. For instance, if my level of concern is not me, not my individual family, but my country, as in ...."mmmmm I wonder what would be best for my country?" Then your choice to speak to them on whichever subject it is by framing the issue as De-Centralization vs Centralization will help you avoid the pitfals of emotionally HOT terms found on the Left and Right of the political spectrum.

Ted Rawl, democrat, editorialist, and cartoonist, writes about his evolution to being "Ok" with the "right to carry a gun" issue...and the portal that he found that drove him to that position was not any words or essays found on the NRA website...nor was it passionate pleas to "protect my family", nor was it scholarly arguments for the 2nd amendment as a libertarian sees it, but rather it was the question of POWER.... is it better (his better not yours), for this POWER to be DeCentralized or Centralized, and how much so?

My two liberal parents, life long public school teachers, pro teachers Union, pro-public schools....... JUMPED at the chance to get OUT of the bonds of Centralized Public school controls to start their own Charter School. The CHOICE for them was the deciding factor, for they still are 100% for public schools, but like liberals most everywhere, they also believed in Choice, and the right to have a CHOICE was a fact born from DeCentralized power, something they also support. They have helped to champion Charter Schools so much, that Arizona now has, I am told, the most Charter Schools per students around. Now that is a lot of choice and decentralization of government school power. Of course there is still a long way to go, to make it freer, but its moving in the right direction...... unlike say medical care in the USA.

Crazy parents? Odd? Doublethink? Illogical? --- yes. But UNUSUAL??? NO! I dare say its universally Human. What ever you call it, these liberals got there, through a deep belief that individual choice via decentralized power is a "good thing".... the fact they also support centralized schooling AT THE SAME TIME, does not bother them in the least. George Orwell was not the first to point out how illogical and inconsistent we humans are. I am sure if I met and talked with many of my fellow DailyPaulers I would find many illogical inconsistencies on the various issues we have as well.......of course I think that I am perfectly logical and consistent, (wink) The fact that after an hour speaking with me and you see my own "doublethink" on the issues, means that doublethink is like Orwell said, nearly Universal. ("nearly" cause he could not see that he held any illogical inconsistencies--- like writing the most anti-socialist book (1984) and being at the same time a card carrying socialist).

So is there any hope to building a freer society? Yes, and my point is we all can get ourselves and many others "out there", to move towards freedom ----- and one way "to get there" is --- whatever the political social issue --- emphasize the angle of De-Centralization of power vs the Centralization of power and stay clear of political terms that have pre-Decided good or bad connotations.

Just a thought....Oh, and if you have not seen the movie, I highly recommend it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Live_%28film%29

In peace & liberty,
Treg

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Sigh

What is it today? Everyone I normally disagree with is spot on today.

Good post Treg. Centralization vs Decentralization of arms, provisions, etc. is a topic we don't see enough posts on.

Eric Hoffer

Then why the "Sigh"???

Shouldn't you be singing?

In peace & liberty,
Treg

LOL

Don't suggest that Treg, my neighbors prefer their ears NOT bleeding.

I get all hyped up looking for an argument, and then I have to agree with you. It's a let down, lol.

Eric Hoffer

Lets try the DeCentralization VS Centralizing technique on us

Please list the issue that you recall or believe we disagree on....

1) ...
2)...
3)...
4)...
5)...

and so on and then we both can look through the binoculars and microscope and view the issue and see who is on the side of Centralization or DeCentralization.

Want to give it a try? If it moves me towards your position or you towards my position, then perhaps we are truly on to something. Afterall, if I cannot convince a fellow Patriot to be for more liberty & freedom... what hope is there?

There you go, you will have your "good argument" chance... lets try it.

In Peace & Liberty.

Lets

At the very least, I'd prefer this on the top of the page than the other garbage which seems to be profligating.

Gotta get the premises straight first. If I remember right, most of the discussions where we've disagreed have been anarchy or the 9/11 stuff. We've managed to avoid the whole issue on the DP for the main part lately, so I'd prefer to keep discussions towards the anarchy side rather than the latter.

Or, I might be completely mistaken in memory. I'm not for full anarchy. I'm of the Ayn Rand school in terms of governance. I still feel we need elected bodies, police, etc.

I think we also disagreed somewhere along the lines of whether or not rights are derived from a social contract, point of a gun, god given, etc.

Unfortunately I think we're both for decentralization as much as possible, I'm betting our differences lie in our axioms and not in our ideologies.

Eric Hoffer

I agree...decentralization of power as much as possible...

1) Check to the side of Min-archy (police, courts, military) though I recognize that the market in private police protection, private courts, are growing daily. I also can side with the Founders that a pre-paid standing military is a scary and dangerous thing, and certainly agree a fully decentralized armed citizenry and "well regulated militia" may be all we need.

2) 9/11 I am 100% Not a Truther. Though I could be convinced key authorities and individuals "looked the other way" in a "false flag 'let things happen' operation" where upon it called for key individuals to do nothing ... I am intrigued greatly by whistle-blower Sibel Edmonds.

3) Rights are by social contract, & enforced by social agreement & by a point of a gun, and I am still an agnostic evolutionist after all these years

I agree...decentralization of power as much as possible...the question is how much is possible?

Here is another idea... the history of power can be looked at as a cost. Thus, if the cost is huge, people self assemble willingly or not, into a large super state or empire. If the cost of power is low, societies break apart or decentralize in power. Take the Roman Empire, for example when the cost of power (vast wooded forest to smelt medal bronze & steel and vast lands to water to feed armies, arm & equip) was larger than one man's lifelong wages...... vs... the invention of the cheap sturip. Suddenly the mongols had speed and 45 years of lots of rains on the Stepps to for cheap grazing horses ... suddenly they could race around and encircle standing steel costly armies, Rome collapsed under its own costly waist & costly technology of power.

Or take 1800's America vs 1900's America. In the 1800's, the cost of power was 2 months wages for a Colt 45 and 10 months wages for a horse. Nothing was more powerful than the individual so armed...and the decentralized government flourished. But by 1900, the cost of power rose dramatically with new technology of power. Iron war ships, canons, soon to be airplanes and tanks were well above (once again) the average man's reach. America centralized...indeed America has centralized right along the cost of power curve. Then came computers in 1980, specifically the personal computer. In 1970 the cost of one cruise missile was well into the multi-millions and was as long as an 18 wheel truck. Its distance & accuracy limited. By 1980, its cost was just above a million or so, its distance and accuracy was "combat ready", and its size could barely fit into a standard two car garage. By 1990, it cost under a million, its distance & accuracy was "perfected" thanks to permanent satellites, and it was the size of a serf board -- dozens could fit inside a garage. By 2000, its cost is just under $500,000 -- less than the cost of a New York apartment --- its distance & accuracy is now GPS pinpoint, "dead on", and its size is small enough to be launched by one man using a "rocket launcher", much like the famed "stinger missile", the first one man cruise missile of its kind. So nation-states today are "quaking in their boots". The technology of power continues to increase and the cost continues to decline down to the level of 2 month's wages. In 2010, one man, with a computer could download the specs, order the parts, build his own cruise missile in his own garage, and store those mini-cruise missiles in any Mini-Storage in Any Town USA and at his/her own leisure, decide where those GPS guided weapons will explode. My guess it will be at "Centralized Power Structures" that fall into someone's disfavor. And the cost? Less than a new Ford Truck.

Notice that Already Koran nutcases and Timothy Mc and Unibomber types have had their "say". In Iraq, the cost of power is a 50 cent Casio used watch, tied to explosives, and triggered by a cell phone. $10 bucks can blow up million dollar tanks, expensive trucks and sadly, American GI lives.

Once upon a time I lived where it snowed a lot. Of course we teenagers loved to have "snowball wars". Dozens of us would pick teams, split up and start the battle. The coveted players were baseball players with arms that could hit the target and throw the distance. For best snowball war survival, 50% division of labor ensued. Some would specialize in making snowballs fast, others with "good arms" specialized in laying waist to the enemy team. Then one day, a little auto shop kid made a snowball making machine, and all his teams members could then throw a snowballs because the machine made so many so fast that no one could throw them all that fast. Guess which team soon was overwhelmed in snowballs and lost? Guess which team was fast to INVEST in making their own snowball making machine? And so on goes the arms race for POWER and the COST OF POWER is always a function of technology & economy.

Today, thanks to the personal computer revolution and medical technology revolution, the cost of power is once again dropping to within the price of the average man's working wage. Is that a pleasant fragrance you are wearing or are those nanobots in my nose reworking my DNA?

Yes, Governments are scared (and excited) at the possibilities. They are busy "getting to know" their populations, who's on the "watch list" and so on. Privacy be damned, governments are out to survive, and they will get to know each and everyone of us very well, making better predictions as to what you will do tomorrow than even yourself can make. The sciences of the mind and sciences of emotions are intensely researched. Its fascinating stuff, but it is also scary at the amount of control possible, when human rights are not an issue. And when one looks at the history of Mankind, human rights have never been the issue, POWER and its COST is the issue and will always be the issue. For us "freedom freaks", we are an unusual bunch, a evolutionary side show, a hail merry pass that Mankind may not catch.... if ever.

Just a thought...

In peace & liberty,
Treg