rhino: The final word on mysticism here at the dp.
Call it whatever you want, Christianity, Muslim, Buddhism, deism, etc., etc. Whatever you call it, it comes down to one thing; a belief based on nothing but faith. There is no proof of God, and I would argue, there never will be.
On the flip side, while the atheists may disagree with this, it is scientifically, and mathematically impossible to disprove a negative, therefore there is no proof that God does not exist and there never will be.
At the basis of any faith is mysticism. Mysticism is the belief in something without proof, i.e. God, Mother Nature, man made global warming, aliens, etc., etc.
The atheists have faith, i.e. “believe”, there is no God.
The deists have faith, i.e. “believe”, there is a God.
Both are mystic thoughts; beliefs based on nothing but faith.
A mystic would say that an atheist must rely on a mystic belief to back up their argument. Score one for the mystics.
I am not sure what an atheist would say to that, but I am sure they would have a logical argument with a great deal of merit.
The agnostics are what get me.
They argue that they neither believe in God nor believe in the absence of God. They are on the sidelines until one side has proof.
The problem with that position is that there will never be proof that God doesn’t exist, and there will never be proof that God exists.
So if they wish to remain agnostic, then they better be willing to die an agnostic. Because, unless they witness a scientifically repeatable miracle, that is exactly what they are going to do.
As a mystic myself, I would be very disappointed if there was ever proof that God exists. It would cause me to start doubting science and mathematics.
The bottom line is …
Mysticism is beyond the scope of the dailypaul.
Feel free to post away on the subject, but nothing will be settled here.
It can only be settled within each of us.
And faith, as profound as such a thing is, and because it is so profound, cannot be won or lost on the internet.
Bravo!
I couldn't have said it any better.
"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul
I bump this thread
for Rhino's ego, since his name is in the title, and to say that
Rhino sucks, pure and simple.
His agenda is to divide and conquer.
He does not have the best interests of Dr. Paul at heart.
I arrived at this conclusion after 2 years of his antics.
To hell with him, is what I say.
Please Donate Today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDgz0rODZU&feature=g-upl
In Order to Convince Yourself
In order to convince yourself that there is no evidence for the existence of God, you have to deny the evidence.
Take the Bible for instance. Either it is an historical account by eyewitnesses or it is a made up fairytale. Other documents from the same period are accorded the dignity of being historical accounts. Those who choose not to believe in God claim that the Apostles' testimony to the life of Christ is either false or the product of a vivid imagination.
Then you move to what you cal "mystical" experience. Those who will not look will never see, but I can testify personally to undeniable instances of supernatural occurrences of which I cannot be dissuaded.
There is none so blind as he who will not see.
Rhino has said some helpful things in some of the forums. He strikes out here.
LOL.
I think you should read this again.
I see miracles every single day.
Don't jump to conclusions next time and be clear about what I am saying before you respond, otherwise you end up apologizing.
Who cares if I am a "believer" or that you believe in the literal bible?
You can't go on a mission via the internet.
That is all I was saying.
And ...
This site is to discuss reason ...
not mysticism ...
That is all I was saying.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
History
History is not mysticism, either in the first or the 20th century.
Bump for the hell of it - heh! heh! Couldn't resist the wording
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
As it turned out ... this was the final word.
Mysticism is beyond the scope of the dailypaul.
I wish you all nothing but success on your journey.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
As you noticed; I had the last word.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
His incessant self bumps will be the "last word"
Nobody wins the "last word" game with rhino....except maybe Fedor.
He is just seeking attention.
I'm sure you'll have a "LOL" coming from him soon.
★★★★★★
http://www.documentarywire.com/
http://freedocumentaries.net/c/All/
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
wow,
you sure do like to mention my name a lot.
He seems to be obsessed with rhino and Fedor.
Yes, I did just refer to myself in the third person. We all know what that means.
Also, LOL, I do like to laugh. I am glad it is not illegal.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
I know tic, toc, tic, toc, and etc......I guess I am bored today
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI
Great
video. Short.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd2LPjpd9As&feature=player_em...
Atheist argument
You don't believe in the tooth fairy or Santa or unicorns, but no one is a unicorn agnostic or tooth fiary agnostic. Atheism is taking a stance. No one can prove something doesn't exist, but being agnostic is taking no position at all. In reality, I'm a strong agnostic, but I go by the atheist term.
Prove is in the hands of the believer.
Now, back to the important stuff. How are we going to end these wars?
Brad
I don't agree with your
I don't agree with your statement that as an atheist, you have to prove there isn't a god.
If you come to me and say there is a purple unicorn in my closet over here. Is the onus on me to come over and open the closet and prove he doesn't exist, or is the onus on you to open the closet and say here's Alex-the purple unicorn? Its on you, and solely you. I never made the claim or assertion in the first place, you did. I wouldn't be concerned with the closet at all if you didn't come over making claim about what you had in it.
Until the door is opened ... we are both mystics.
There is no evidence of either's belief.
However ...
in your example ...
A very simple scientific experiment can be conducted to establish a truth, a fact, beyound a reasonable doubt.
Open the door and find out.
Then do it again.
Then again.
When you get the same results enough times to consider it a statistical certainty, then you have completed your experiment.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
You cannot prove with
You cannot prove with mathematical rigor that there is no teapot in orbit around the moon. (I may not have that quote exactly right, but I do remember it's a teapot.) Mathematical proofs are possible only because all the "givens" are enumerated. In the real world, the "givens" are always provisional. A new discovery could come along. All science ever has is theory. But good theories work really well. The theory of gravity seems pretty secure.
Some theories are more plausible than others. Some are much more so. When they become far more plausible than other explanations, we sometimes call them "physical laws." That does not make scientists mystics. A mystic is someone who believes the implausible based on no real evidence.
We also have scientific ability to test the teapot ....
question as well.
I think we are missing the boat here.
Reason through experimentation, the accumulation of knowledge, using science and mathematics is at the basis of any conscience.
That is by definition, that is not an opinion.
You cannot use your conscience to establish the existance or the absence of a supernatural force, which by definition is beyond reason.
That too is by definition, that is not an opinion.
When one tries to use reason to establish something that by definition is beyond reason, you get into trouble.
Why do people feel the need to do this?
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
If I say "the apple taste" -- what do you think of?
Tart (granny smith)
or
Sweet (fuji)
or
Sweet-n-Tart (braeburns - pink ladies)
When I say God........?
It must come down to "experience" -- If you have none then how do you "get it?" By "reading" -- I doubt it. By "talking" -- I doubt it. By "meditation" -- maybe.
Jesus' said the Kingdom of God is within you -- check
Jesus' said that we are all God's -- check
Go Within -- To "realize" you are a God.
Jesus said "the seeing see not, the hearing hear not...."
-----hmmmm?
Jesus also broke the back of the church (religion) -- he reduced everything to very simple arguments that even an atheist could enjoy following.
1) Love God with all your heart (well we need the realization first then we can love -- cannot love an abstraction)
2) Love thy neighbor as thyself (pointed toward an expanded consciousness? sounds like meditation again)
3) Stressed Forgiving (70 times 70 times). Well forgiveness benefits the forgiver as much if not more -- it allows you to "let go"
4) Approach God (here's some instruction) as a child approaches his mother or father (in trust, expectancy, and with ease of heart).
I'm not a Christian or Religious Person.
I do "practice" meditation and strive to implement the above -- It works, it costs nothing but a little effort, and requires no blind belief.
Keep it Simple Stupid (K.I.S.S)
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
I want to know some things.
Why is Sunday the day of worship now?
Why do people pray in church?
Why has the Lord's Prayer been changed?
The more I read the Bible, the more I'm confronted with MAJOR discrepencies between Jesus' words and what people are doing. Why?
I know the church was corrupted early in its existence, but there shouldn't have been a church in the first place.
My parents want me to start going to church with them again, but I can't do it until I have answers to my questions direct from scripture. Anyone??
Explore Orthodox Christianity
Take a look at..
...The Larger Catechism.
http://www.opc.org/lc.html
Concerning the day of worship look at above link and find Q. 115
Sunday is the day of worship because Christ rose from the dead on the first day of week which is now referred to as "the Lord's day". We honor His redemptive work and His conquering of sin by worshipping Him in public on that day.
People pray in church because they want to and should. But, we should pray anywhere and everywhere we are given the opportunity. Prayer doesn't have to be out loud either. Paul says we should "pray without ceasing" (meaning, never give up praying....and that doesn't mean we are to pray constantly).
The Lord's Prayer hasn't been changed. You'll find it in Matthew and Luke.
To put it bluntly most churches are apostate and the "ministers" haven't been called by God to preach. For example- Huckabee was minister and quit. A minister of God can't quit his profession- he works for God.
I understand about the pressure to go to church. Just consider whether you're at a good church (as defined by the bible)....and MAN is a good church hard to find. Too much showmanship and nonsense- no real substance.
If you find....we'll join you.
Constantine made the first Sunday closure law.
Dunno if he did it out of veneration for the sun or because Christians may have already been meeting on Sunday prior to this. I've seen good arguments for both.
I concur
with all that
HERE is the LAST Word on this....
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." Romans 1:18-25
So there you have it! In very simple terms.
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Yâ-hwéh Yâhuwshúa`, The LORD Jesus Christ;
Dave
"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17
http://www.lionandlambministry.com
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
In The LORD Jesus Christ;
Dave
"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17
http://www.lionandlambministry.com
Woe to thee who bringeth the last word against
rhino's last word.
I think I read that somewhere.
★★★★★★
http://www.documentarywire.com/
http://freedocumentaries.net/c/All/
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
Your
"God" is not my "God". You have proven nothing and around we go.
Fedor, I don't want to squabble about religion...
...but I thought I remember you saying you are a Christian.
How would you describe God?
The word "God"
is inadequate and has multiple meanings. This is the core of the problem. Even "Christians" disagree on the meaning of "God". When an individual throws down biblical verses and essays and proclaims they have proven the sacred, I know instantly they are full of shit and know very little about the sacred. I believe the sacred goes beyond language and can only be revealed through actions. I believe we sense the sacred. Language simply points in a direction. Like a street sign. It is not the destination. Claiming language or books are sacred is like kneeling before a Street sign and never arriving at home.
The truth
is most scientists accept they do NOT know how it all works and have faith in the process of exploring and observing life as an ongoing process. Many mystics have the same belief.
then there's angst
we are, after all in violation of the second law of thermodynamics.
All things revert to their lowest energy state.
I should be mass of decomposing carbon etc.
but in contempt of the laws of physics I post on the DP.
Fema camp for me I suppose