The War on Religion, by Ron Paul
There's been a lot of anti-Christian banter on this forum. Hear what the man himself has to say on this topic:
by Ron Paul | December 30, 2003
Lew Rockwell.com
As we celebrate another Yuletide season, it’s hard not to notice that Christmas in America simply doesn’t feel the same anymore. Although an overwhelming majority of Americans celebrate Christmas, and those who don’t celebrate it overwhelmingly accept and respect our nation’s Christmas traditions, a certain shared public sentiment slowly has disappeared. The Christmas spirit, marked by a wonderful feeling of goodwill among men, is in danger of being lost in the ongoing war against religion.
Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity.
This growing bias explains why many of our wonderful Christmas traditions have been lost. Christmas pageants and plays, including Handel’s Messiah, have been banned from schools and community halls. Nativity scenes have been ordered removed from town squares, and even criticized as offensive when placed on private church lawns. Office Christmas parties have become taboo, replaced by colorless seasonal parties to ensure no employees feel threatened by a “hostile environment.” Even wholly non-religious decorations featuring Santa Claus, snowmen, and the like have been called into question as Christmas symbols that might cause discomfort. Earlier this month, firemen near Chicago reluctantly removed Christmas decorations from their firehouse after a complaint by some embittered busybody. Most noticeably, however, the once commonplace refrain of “Merry Christmas” has been replaced by the vague, ubiquitous “Happy Holidays.” But what holiday? Is Christmas some kind of secret, a word that cannot be uttered in public? Why have we allowed the secularists to intimidate us into downplaying our most cherished and meaningful Christian celebration?
The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.
The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.
Excellent...
thanks for posting.
“The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.” Ron Paul - The Revolution
Ron Paul
is a devout Christian. His life and behavior show this. He is above all a civil person.
I don't care what label you hide behind, I care what you do. Calling yourself an atheist, pagan or whatever is not a free pass to go around in accuser mode defaming the beliefs of Christians, anymore than my calling myself a Christian should motivate me to go around attacking competing religions such as Judaism or Islam. Moreover, this is not a forum designed primarily to discuss religion, much less an acceptable venue for attacking one particular religion, viz., Christianity RP's faith.
Learn to live in a pluralist environment and to observe the rules of civility or go somewhere else.
Ron Paul
is a Christian who also warned against Christian fanatics. "Wrapped in a flag carrying a cross". Grow up people. Extremism is a concern during any transition of government. In our country, Christianity is susceptible to extremism. Discussing this topic is not anti-Christian, it is wise. So yes, Ron Paul is a Christian and even he has expressed concern about Christianity being used to advance Fascism. There are many members here who are Christians and hold the same concerns.
I know exactly what he is talking about and that was back
in 2003.
Today it is even worse. Though I am not a practicing 'church' Christian, I hold dear the 'moral' teachings that has sustained by own life and that of my family from my Catholic roots although today I am Deist/Gnostic.
There seems to be more and more people who have become irked with Christian holy days and this does seem to have its roots with the 'politically correct' agenda being imposed from the left.
However, looking back to the 80's and 90's with the rise of the 'religious right wing' as it is called, one can honestly see that they kinda brought this on to themselves and now there is 'blow back' from all that behavior back then and how this same religious right was right there with Bush and his carte blanche given him from congress to invade, torture, murder millions of innocent civilians.
If they wanted to get Hussein or some guy named Bin Laden, they could have easily sent someone to do it, not a whole army.
So I think its 'Karma', the law of cause and effect.
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Did he talk about this much in the 2008 presidential campaign?
No.
It is too devisive.
Follow his lead.
It Depends ...
In Missouri we still are getting it right.
TheKingIsComing
I do not share Ron Paul's perspective
I do not see or feel the anti-Christian discrimination he describes, but I do not live, eat, and breathe Christianity, so maybe I am not sufficiently sensative.
What I see is a vibrant Christian community that puts out plenty of religious symbols at this time of year. We find them on lawns, on houses, on churches, in businesses. Services are held. Concerts are held. Plays are produced. Movies, TV, newspapers, radio, all forms of media, celebrate the Christmas season. Some people go caroling. Some volunteer at food pantries. It is abundantly clear that our society is overwhelmingly Christian, at least in name.
To the extent these activities take place on private property, the full expression of the Christian devotion can be displayed for all to see. This is right, and this is good.
The moment governments attempt to fund or facilitate Christmas, or any other religious event, they are imposing specific religious beliefs on others who may not believe the same. Even within the Christian religion, there are differences in the way Christmas is celebrated (the Catholic devotion to Mary is puzzling, even offensive, to some Protestants...my old girlfriend believed Catholicism was a cult because of it), so there is no such thing as government endorsing religion without endorsing a PARTICULAR religious point of view. This will be resented and resisted. Instead of everyone respecting religious differences, we break down into warring factions, each trying to bend the power of government to the advantage of their beliefs.
Some of the Founding Fathers were very religious, some not at all. Ironically, in the late 1700's it was the new evangelical religions that insisted the Constitution separate government and religion. They had been on the receiving end of government discrimination and wanted no part of governments in the future. Therefore, the Constitution does not use the word "God" anywhere, though there is a single oblique invocation at the very end. See the book "Free Thinkers" for a full discussion.
There are critics of religion who attack the practice, customs, and intellectual basis of religion. There are defenders of religion who attack the belief systems of non-believers. In a free society, that is to be expected. We all grow from those encounters (I've learned a few things from the religious wars here on the DP). As long as we all fund our own beliefs, however, there is no reason or excuse to curtail our own behaviors. We may disagree, but we can all still respect each other in the morning.
Ron Paul and I would disagree (in a gentlemanly way) about the treatment of religion in America. He thinks it is on its' death bed, I think it is alive and well.
To all my Christian friends: Merry Christmas! May you have lights, and prayers, and nativity scenes on every Christian lawn. To all my atheist friends: relax, privately owned Christian symbols and beliefs are harmless to you. They "neither pick your pocket nor break your bones." As long as it stays on private property, let it be.
Perfect.
I completely agree. As a Christian in this country I feel extraordinary freedom.
Thread WINNAH!!
.
--------------------------------
Lets face it, the average Amerikan is an idiot..
-Ira Freeman
...let it not be said that we did nothing.
-Ron Paul
Yay, one christian thread
Yay, one christian thread gets closed and locked up so we start another one!!! Smart move, but I wouldn't expect anything less from a christian.
You headline your topic with ,"There's been a lot of anti-Christian banter on this forum. " Yet you are the ones starting all of the topics. I you people don't want the conflict then you wouldn't start it. And you went and dug something up from 2003 to do what exactly? Are you trying to make us change our mind just because Dr. Paul is a christian? Or are you saying that we shouldn't support him? What exactly is the purpose of this BS thread?
He is a man like the rest of us, he's not perfect, so I wont hold it against him that he's confused about this bit of reality.
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
This essay by Ron Paul
was probably posted to show what his views are on the topic. This is a RP site after all.
that is to logical for him
that is to logical for him to understand....
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Logic, which you have NONE
Logic,
which you have NONE of, comes on to this thread to tell us all how we bad Christians are the ones starting the threads... I invite you to go read the anti Christian threads fedor put up and look at the date.. then go see the ones xcoutry put up.. you know the one that talks about turning religious people into atheists... look at the dates.. those came long before these did.. This poster puts up in RON PAULS own words what he said about church and state in 2003 and the loonies go crazy! what is purpose of this BS thread.. to educate those of you who have NO logic.. to show you you are WRONG.. Who are you to judge Ron Paul wehter he is perfect or not? the problem is you wouldn't know reality if it snuck up and bit you on the butt.. see, turn it around time.. Oh I am a Ron Paul supporter but what he says is wrong.. man you people are funny.. its one way or the highway.. the very same thing you accuse me of doing you do 10 times worse.. who are you say Ron Paul is wrong about his religious beliefs? what makes you the judge of that.. I am accused of Judgking people but its ok when you Judge??? the old double standard.. the problem with that is you are not honest enough with yourself to tell yourself when you are wrong.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Awww...woe is the poor
Awww...woe is the poor wittle christian who get's his feewings hurt. Your religion is losing it's grasp on society and you just can't stand it.
"the very same thing you accuse me of doing you do 10 times worse.. who are you say Ron Paul is wrong about his religious beliefs? what makes you the judge of that.. I am accused of Judgking people but its ok when you Judge??? the old double standard.."
I don't live by a doctrine that says I'm not supposed to judge, and then turn around and judge. I'm human, and it's in our nature to judge. It's unavoidable and impossible to never judge. So yeah, to me, it is okay for me to judge, and it's okay for you to judge as well, Just be honest enough with yourself to tell yourself when you are wrong...lol..I'll readily admit when I'm wrong and I'll make the effort to learn to correct the mistake, something that I can't say for a lot of you. Smooches.
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
Logic I'm still waiting
I can't keep chasing you all night
dude.. true Christianity is
dude.. true Christianity is not a religion.. this is what you can't figure out.. you cannot take away my relationship with God.. actually I would like to see where it says we are not supposed to judge.. In the bible that means you are not to judge anothers standing with God .. God knows the heart we do not.. as far as judging right and wrong we are to judge.. is right for logic to rape bugmans daughter?? No? congrats you just made a judgement.. is it wrong to steal from your neighbor?? yes it is wrong.. congrats you just made a judgement.. see you don't eve know the difference... get some "logic".
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
I agree. True Christianity was never a religion. It was a
practice.
http://www.mngop54b.org/
http://www.mnlg.org
http://www.therootsofchange.com
http://www.cc2009.us
So by this post...
I understand you, Bad_K, agree 100% with 100% of what Ron Paul has EVER said??? But if anbody disagrees with Ron Paul on this one issue, we're traitors?
How old are you?
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
problem is this is a huge
problem is this is a huge issue.. not a little one... can you tell the difference? maybe one of your bugs can explain it to you? maybe?
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
the problem is you are wrong
the problem is you are wrong and not itellectually honest enough to question your belief.. now how old are you?
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
I knew it... It would take
I knew it... It would take only a few minutes before the separation of church and state and anti christians would show up.. Then they change the meaning to fit their agenda.... Ron even talks about The Churches teaching Morality.... O MY GOSH.. for Real Ron Paul said that.. He also said That Christianity has a place in government? wow...
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
You knew it did ya? Well, at
You knew it did ya? Well, at least you finally have shown you know something. Listen, you clowns keep posting this drivel for the sole purpose of having this crap go on. The churches don't teach morality, they brainwash people into thinking they are insignificant and have no control over their own lives. Oh, and they touch little boys where they pee.WE DON'T LIVE IN THE CHRISTIAN NATION THAT YOU HOPE AND DREAM FOR! In fact, Atheism is on the rise and has been for years. Get used to it, your oppressive religion is dying, and I can't wait till it burns at the stake!
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
Wow
You're revealing yourself as one of the types Ron Paul is talking about here:
"the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war."
I may have different views from Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus on theology...but I have lots of friends who are of those religions...I even know a few **REAL** atheists...and we can hang out and get along fine. I can't imagine saying to them, or them saying to me, something like "your oppressive religion is dying, and I can't wait till it burns at the stake!"
That's just......................wrong. Incredibly offensive to anyone.
If I go to Saudi Arabia, I expect to see people praying towards Mecca.
If I go to China, I expect to see Buddist monks in parades.
The majority here are Christians. We celebrate Christmas. Accept that. The ones who aren't Christians in this country usually don't have a problem with us celebrating Christmas. Even **REAL** atheists don't give a da**. The only ones who do have a problem with it are those of you who are actively undermining all traditional religious values - and they are typically atheists on the surface, but occultists in reality. Sounds like what happened in the Soviet Union.
We don't live in a Christian
We don't live in a Christian nation.... You and Obama agree.... should you go over to obamas site ans blog there? oh the venom! lol.....
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
that is your opinion.. look
that is your opinion.. look folks.. another against Ron Paul... when you look in the mirror the only clown you see is you... did you even read this post? nope.. I'm sure you didn't..
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Another against Ron Paul?
Another against Ron Paul? Look at how long I've been a member here and NOT been banned Sierra. And check my donations to Paul's campaign cheese puff. Your true colors are shining through, and they're rather dull. The next time, let's make that the first time that you show an inkling of intelligence, I will respond to your stupidity, until then, carry on.
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
Thank you
for posting this. And thank, you Ron Paul.
its very clear that Ron Paul would not mix
Government and religion. He talks about the war on religion, which is the federal government injecting itself on something as foolish as what type of Christmas decorations a town puts up. But in the end, the problem is not that government does not promote religious ideals, but rather that government is too big.
Praying in school is not an issue if you have private schools,or even vouchers and choice of schools.
Gay marriage would not be an issue if the government only acted to enforce marriage contracts, and did not subsidize the institution. , Churches would provide the definition of marriage, and you could choose a church or a common law union.
The problem I have with most people who mix their politics too much with their religion is that they soon want to use the power of government to believe in the way they choose - for example things like banning gay marriage, or requiring the teaching of creationism. My experience is that many religious types ( not you Armor) seem to be the ones that push the strictest drug laws, hate against muslims, etc. I do not trust them not to become intolerant and authoritarian, because that is how many live their lives.
Even Ron Paul...
is not perfect.
--------
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
Maybe not. but one heck of a
Maybe not. but one heck of a lot smarter then you..
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.