Who won the Civil War?
The North? The South? The Slaves? The White-supremacists? The Protectionists? The Rothschilds? Obama? The Yankees? The Mets?
I am gearing up for a final term paper in my Civil War and Reconstruction class. I was getting some pretty good information and thought I'd share with you all. The topic is, "who won the war?"
I am going to go out on a limb and claim that the winner was Alexander Hamilton. Lincoln was well-known for his Henry Clay Whig ideology of National banks, public debts, and protectionist tariffs. (see The American System)
Since the birth of the US, there have been two rival factions - the Federalists (nationalists) and Anti-federalists (federalists(confused?)). While Hamilton and the Federalists supported a strong National government, Anti-federalists supported a limited federal government with emphasis on State gov'ts. This was the foundation for what we call the two-party system. With such a system, compromise is key. If you cannot come to consensus, you have two options: compromise or fight (might makes right). Up until the war cries for secession were not uncommon when protesting the work of the opposing party. When South Carolina threatened to nullify the Tariff of Abominations, President Jackson decided to compromise - cooler heads prevailed. When South Carolina seceded from the union - Lincoln decided not to compromise and opted to end the debate once and for all. For Lincoln, might made right - and in the end it was the nationalist Ideas of Hamilton which were "right" and the ideas of Jefferson were discarded. Since the civil war, the debate has been shifted from "what should the role of government be" to "how should the government carry out its roles". It only cost about 620,000 (2.3% of the population) dead Americans to prove that Hamilton was "correct" all along. (compare that to about 7 million dead in today's population numbers.)
Got anything to share? I know you do. Who won the Civil War?
It's not over yet !
If you don't believe me read below !
"Study the past if you would define the future."
Confucius
Trying to get an interesting website rolling along, Offering free banners to DP business owners. Please contact me through the DP for details with size Etc. If you don't have one I can adjust, I will make you one.
http://www.shtfknowledge.com/index.php
a few things
my final paper leaned heavily on the fact that Lincoln decided to change his tactics in the middle of the war... with such heavy losses in mid 62 they needed a boost... Emancipation Proclamation kept England (anti-slavery) out of the war and turned a senseless bloodbath into a fight for civil rights...this taught idea of the liberation war to our current Caesars... if war can be as costly as the civil war and still be generally accepted as a net positive by the people ... (what kind of a message does this send to the elites).
my conclusion: no one won this war... a union general said during the war (paraphrase) ~every man who dies above the number ABSOLUTELY necessary for peace, is murdered.~ I agree.
i did point out that if your wife wants to leave you - even if she is totally nonsensical about it ( i didn't defend the south, instead just focused on the north) - you can't stop her at the barrel of a gun, and its certainly not worth killing her whole family. your wife is gunna like you a lot less than she did previously...
the fact that the south had their slaves freed as a result of a war which claimed 1/5 military age males in the south - a war in which ( i feel) they won the ideological battle, resulted in the racist society that persisted in the south for over a hundred years following the war(and still today in small circles)
this method of ending slavery was counterproductive slavery should have been allowed to end itself (perhaps nullify the fugitive slave law), and don't forget that the war began without any intentions of slaves being freed.
more results of the war?
Rift between the N/S widened
The end of the republic and rise of the centralized state
I messed up and was gearing up for a 15 page paper... turned out to be a 6 page paper this is why i changed it up...don't ask me how i missed that.
Lincoln stayed true to his promise to Horace Greeley ~if i could save the union by freeing the slaves i would, if i could save it by not freeing them i would do that, and if i could save it by freeing some and not others, i'd do that too ~ he did in fact choose the third option.
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
Hamilton was a Federalist ! The Federalist Bankers Won !
What is a Federalist?
Answer:
A federalist is a person who believes in a centralized government and a central bank. { Remember Hamilton was a banker }
The North and South both lost money and men. Therefore like most wars both sides lost !
The ""BANKERS"" won because in order to fund wars great amounts of money are lent, created, or stolen and eventually end up in bankers hands.
The Federalist bankers were exposed and temporarily exiled by President Andrew Jackson long before the Civil war. Jackson called them a den of vipers !
However, the international bankers { Federalists } slowly regained power and bought influence in the American Congress, until in 1913 they took over the banking system and formed a central bank called the Fed, along with passing Amendment XVI {16} ( The taxation law ).
Federalist type thinking has now taken over our country and our lives, without most people even realizing it. They have made the Democratic/Republican 2 party system a joke !
Ron Paul, who may be the last of the true "Anti-Federalists" has awakened the masses to what Federalism is all about.
Ron Paul Is My President !
beesting
The Rothschilds won the war
Lincoln and Kennedy were the only ones to try to create a currency that the Rothschilds did not own -- They were both assassinated by the same group (Illuminati).
Lincoln was offered sacks of gold (at interest of course) from the Rothschilds and he turned them down.
The Rothschilds were subsidizing the south pre-civil war. France and England (both owned by the Rothschilds) had troops in Mexico (I think) ready to invade to help the South. England had troops in Canada ready to aid the South.
The Rothschilds wanted slavery to expand (textile mostly) in the West.
The North blocked slavery in the west.
If the South (Rothschilds) won the war they would of had control of most the Eastern Ports, All the Southern Ports, and all the Western Ports (in Cali, Oregon, and Washington).
The Rothschilds extended huge lines of credit to Northern merchants (supply chain for war) and even more to the Southern leadership and merchants (supply chain).
I would definitely say the Rothschilds won -- after Lincoln was killed they eventual got Fiat Currency Control -- right?
No your history.
The notion that one mad starts wars or one man liberates you is the oldest of all fallacies.
I'm not PRO-Lincoln -- just as I'm not pro-Bush or pro-Obama -- I just thinkg blaming single individual for collectivism is a fallacy of the highest order. The "collective" abdicate autority -- they vote or lobby or buy corporatist products or keep their assets in Fed Banks / Wall Street or pay taxes and send their kids to public education (repete flip and bake at 350)
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Is that...
"No" your history, "Know" your history, or "No, you're history"?
Don't forget Jackson either.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
Hahahaha -- "no you're history"
kidding -- "know your history"
Jackson was a Slave Owner and heavy into Indian Removal (trail of tears)
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
This might help
I suggest you start here http://www.federationofstates.org/ it will help you..Also get in touch with members of the Southern Party for a real history lesson..Good luck
Freedom is another way to God...A corrupt government is a straight way to hell.
I believe in Hope & Change..I Hope the government will Change
Spindale-Rutherford County-North Carolina
Lincoln, not Washington, is the Father of our Nation
Washington was the father of what had been a constitutional republic. Lincoln is the father of the modenr day US which is centralized govt that appeals tot he constitution when it serves its needs.
I agree
In fact I got this from.
http://myvirginiagenealogy.com/index.html
"Many of Virginia's records have been lost to fire, war, and time. Jamestown, the original capital, was destroyed three times, and some counties lost records during the Revolutionary War. However, the greatest destruction of Virginia's records occurred during the Civil War. Many courthouses were destroyed, but the most significant loss of records resulted from the burning of Richmond in 1865. Even with the loss of records, research in most Virginia counties remains richly rewarding."
I was told that the Congressional Assembly had broken their set date to reconvene during those fires. And according to the rules of assembly, if you set a date to convene a new meeting and you miss that date without setting another one, you have to start over from day one as if nothing had happened at all. So the slate was wiped clean, the states lost their sovereignty and Lincoln became the father of the public democratic UNITED STATES INC.
This is SO true. Visit
This is SO true. Visit Washington DC and you'll discover a HUGE monument to Lincoln, but where's Washington? And where else do you find Lincoln? On the LOWEST denominations of currency, symbolic of how poor we will be as a result of the Dictatorship he created, the Dictatorship of the Majority over the Minority. Democracy, which is nothing more than another word for Communism.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
I've said it before but
War For What by Francis Springer is an EXCELLENT book about the civil war and the events before and after it.
You're probably familiar but
You're probably familiar but here's some good related reading:
Thomas J. DiLorenzo is professor of economics at Loyola College in Maryland and the author of The Real Lincoln; Lincoln Unmasked: What You’re Not Supposed To Know about Dishonest Abe and How Capitalism Saved America. His latest book is Hamilton’s Curse: How Jefferson’s Archenemy Betrayed the American Revolution – And What It Means for America Today.
Browse his archives:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo-arch.html
Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.
"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor
Its "The war of Northern Aggression!"
Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! ~~ Pericles (430 B.C.)
Freedom is NOT free!
What do you mean 'won the war'? We're entering the home stretch.
Admiralty Law bankruptcy or not, to a lot of people, this is still an ideological fight that will continue until we're grown in vats with no oral history. Sure, there were definitely foreign influences and domestically there were "useful idiots" but on the ground the poorest most ignorant southerner would[will] never support this:
http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=13131&n...
"Further evidence of [John] Brown’s revolutionary political understanding includes the provisional constitution he drafted in 1858, ready for enactment upon the seizure of power by anti-slavery forces. The provisional constitution included language such as "[a]ll captured or confiscated property and all property… shall be held as the property of the whole … and may be used for the common benefit. …" Brown viewed the struggle against slavery not as an exclusive struggle, but as part and parcel of a general social revolution."
Makes you wonder this Sunday night on the History Channel whether Matt Damon or Danny Glover read any of John Brown's words, in context.
Public Education is not about learning it's about
getting certified to work.
Obviously some knowledge is passed, but very little of what you need or want.
I was tasked to train young Financial Analysists (accounting side) when they came to the firm I was contracting with. They knew nearly nothing after 5 years of college -- save nifty tricks in excel; which were nifty.
Now the asian kids who came from China -- were highly trained after 4 years. The problem was language and culture.
It took me 7 months to give them their careers -- In hindsight I could have done this with anyone with basic excel skills; with no accounting or finance background.
Give the professor exactly what he wants -- that's your job. Even if he says he wants to hear "your opinion" -- tell him what you think he thinks your oppinion should be.
Get the A and get your Certificate.
DO NOT READ DI LORENZO -- #1 He is not 100% accurate on Lincoln and #2 He will pull your thoughts away from what your Professor wants.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
I'm not sure about the
I'm not sure about the Yankees winning, if they won it must have been because they bought it. I do know that my beloved Mets didn't win, it would take them over 100 years for them to win it all. I also know the Whalers didn't win the Civil War, later on they would win the Avco Cup.
I wouldn't blame Lincoln alone for his unwillingness to compromise. As I'm sure you know South Carolina seceded during Buchanan's Presidency not Lincoln's. The Confederates were willing to negotiate but they insisted on terms that no President could accept. They were at least as unwilling to compromise as Lincoln. Also its an exaggeration to say that states rights died with the Civil War. States rights took a serious blow from FDR and was finished off by the Great Society.
while SC seceded during
while SC seceded during Buchanan's term and the Morrill Tariff was signed by Buchanan... in Lincoln's Innaugural address he states:
"In doing this there needs to be no bloodshed or violence, and there shall be none unless it be forced upon the national authority. The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere."
I take this to mean that linclon is telling the seceded states ," hey, you guys can call yourselves whatever you want - but I'm keeping my military bases/forts and customs houses - and you will continue to pay your taxes or I will invade your land and force you to 'give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's".
why should the confederates negotiate? it was the north who had everything to lose (revenue).
I don't contend that the civil war was "the end", but the beginning of liberty's erosion. before that time we were still undecided on which path we would go down.
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
Read Thomas
Read Thomas Dilorenzo.
Careful though. Are you sure the teacher is fair enough to give you a good grade on a paper that does not present Lincoln as the Great Man (tm)?
Di Lorenzo is not the one to read -- His summation is off.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
thanks...
for nothing. care to expand?
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
Delvin: Take a book of facts -- shoot it with a shot-gun
then count the "holes" That's how DiLorenzo's book is, hahahaha.
I can't write a full book review here.
What is the point of DiLorenzo's book?
Rothbardians have certain axioms they swear by.
#1 Non-Aggression Principle
#2 Self-Ownership
......being the upper two.
The South violated these axioms far far far greater than Lincoln -- assuming we are being logical and NOT laying the entirety of the Civil War at Lincoln's feet; which is absurd.
I just don't get the Rothbardian's supporting this book in this manner.
I think there are other things Lincoln could have done, but the 8% elite who owned Slaves in the South could have been righteous, christian, and moral too.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
THAT is the question.
He's pretty good on Lincoln, actually. But he is terrible on the banks... one of the first days of class he went off about how Jackson was an idiot for his "no bank" policy I believe he actually had the gall to say "any idiot knows that you've got to have a central banking system". later in the year when we got to talking about inflation during the war - we first got him to admit that you cannot understand history without understanding economics - so that's good... what's funny is that a minute later we got him to admit that he wasn't an economics expert or anything...
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
"any idiot knows that you've got to have a central bank..."
any idiot in academia maybe; otherwise, most would be out of a job.
--------------------------------
"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
----------------------------
And to think that those academic brownbunnies
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. — John Adams
are where we look to for real information. More NWO masterplan unveiled. Those academies are the nests of the vipers, where they breed NWO atheism, elitism, globalism, global warming, interfaith nonsense, etc. NWO factories, I say!
There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man. — Tolstoy
"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."
Wait, you had DiLorenzo as a
Nevermind, I misread the post you were responding to. Read DiLorenzo, and you are right in your assumption that Hamilton won (hint: you will find a common ground in DiLorenzo's work)
I wish i did!
to bad I'm stuck in bumf--k state university. I do my real studying at Mises.org University/ DailyPaul community college.
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
"The War Prayer - Mark Twain"
Thanks for your post...
I like your perspective and it makes sense.. I like how you clarified the difference between Federalists and federalists..... I have a question.. does the Federalist Society (for Law and Public Policy Studies) base their organization on the Federalists or federalists? Anyways... doublespeak has been going on for while I guess......
Be a delegate or activist!
Join: www.rp2012.org
The Yankees
The religious nuts looking for the 1000 years of Christ on earth. They have a modern day equivalent,,,the war mongering christian right. These authoritarians are the worst. They want to "perfect" you by use of force. Just like that freaky Ann Colter said of Jews to Donny Duetch.
Its the culmination of alot of things. but its when the authoritarians take over the country for the first time. And these folks rallied behind the charge. You can see their decedents in both parties through out the years. They are the ones that are trying to make society better through the use of force. Progressives and Neocons both try this.
Before the war they didn't have complete control. But after they knew they were nation wide. Prohibition, cartels (fed. railroads)....anything that could be directed or controlled (so they thought) was fair game for the state to take over and do so. They always know whats best for you.
hold on, buckaroo . . .
it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--
that's a pretty heavy generalization--
There are MANY Christians who believe Jesus Christ will return who are NOT warmongers--
who do NOT agree with Ann Colter, who do NOT believe in Zionism, who are not Neoconservatives.
There's a whole bunch of us here, and we're watching the backs of everyone who loves liberty.
Just put your gun back in your holster.
Thanks; that's better.
it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--
Lincoln won. But in a sick
Lincoln won. But in a sick way he actually lost if you take into account the whole assassination thing.