Veterans Group Calls On Soldiers to Refuse Orders to Deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/199003-Veterans-Group-Call...
Veterans Group Calls On Soldiers to Refuse Orders to Deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq
Dahr Jamail
Truthout
Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:55 EST
In response to President Barack Obama's announcement on December 1 to deploy 30,000 additional troops to the occupation of Afghanistan, the organization March Forward!, comprising both veterans and active-duty members of the US military, has called on all soldiers to refuse their orders to deploy.
"March Forward! calls on all service members to refuse orders to deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq," reads a press release from the group from December 3. "We offer our unconditional support and solidarity. Join us in the fight to ensure that no more soldiers or civilians lose their lives in these criminal wars."
Michael Prysner, a former corporal in the Army who served from 2001-2005 and a veteran of the occupation of Iraq, co-founded the group with another Iraq war veteran, James Circello.
Truthout asked Prysner how he responds to those who believe a soldier should always follow orders, no matter what.
"In my experience the majority of people joining the military today join out of necessity, like money, jobs, help for their family, etc., so most don't join for ideological or patriotic reasons. Most are driven into the military by economic conditions. We see this playing out now, as people are joining in droves because of the economy."
Prysner added, "Yes, people do sign a contract to follow orders, but those orders are wrong and unlawful. We want to educate people to the fact that these are immoral orders, and they [soldiers] are being used as muscle for corporations, to colonize the developing world, and it's not legitimate. People who join and take this oath seriously who think they are in [the military] to defend the US, this is not what we are being used for in the military today."
Prysner has written about his experience in Iraq, "... there was no computer screen separating me from the suffering civilian population. I spent 12 months in Iraq, doing everything from prisoner interrogations, to ground surveillance missions, to home raids. It was my firsthand experiences in Iraq that radicalized me. I believed I was going to Iraq to help liberate and better the lives of an oppressed people, but I soon realized that my purpose in Iraq was to be the oppressor, and to clear the way for US corporations with no regard for human life."
After he separated from the Army in 2005, Prysner "understood that the occupation I was a part of was a crime against humanity. I understood that illegal conquering of Iraq was for profit, carried out by a system that serves a tiny class of super-rich whose endless drive for wealth is at the expense of working people in the United States and abroad."
According to Prysner, the lessons he learned from being part of the US occupation of Iraq taught him that, "I still had the same drive to fight for freedom, justice and equality as I did when I joined, and I understood that fighting for those things meant fighting against the US government, not on behalf of it."
To those who call him and his organization "anti-American" and/or "unpatriotic," Prysner has this to say:
"I would say that I have more in common with my sisters and brothers in Iraq and Afghanistan than I do with these people in DC who've sent us to war. If that's unpatriotic, then yes, I am. But patriotism and racism are the only things the military has to fall back on to convince people to do the things we are being asked to do today."
March Forward! was founded in 2008, and the aim of the organization is "to unite all those who have served and who currently serve in the US military, and who want to stand up for our rights and for that which is right."
"We are new and growing," Prysner explained. "We have seen somewhat consistent growth, and we're expecting this to accelerate now."
The group's statement from December 3 adds, "On December 1, we got a clear order from President Obama. For many more years, we will be sent to kill, to die, to be maimed and wounded, in a war where 'victory' is impossible, against a people who are not our enemies. For over eight years, we have come home in coffins, in wheelchairs, with our skin burned and with our days and nights haunted by the trauma of war. We return home to a VA whose services are so inadequate that active duty soldiers who succumb to suicide outnumber those killed in combat."
James Circello is a former Army sergeant and veteran of the US occupation of Iraq. Circello, who joined the military in 2001, describes his experience in Iraq as follows:
"During the occupation of Iraq, the truth about what the United States government has done to the country of Iraq became more apparent. Open wastewater flowed through neighborhood streets where children played soccer. Families were thrown out of their homes with simple accusations from others. Vehicles were taken on sight by the military if individuals couldn't provide proper documents claiming they own the vehicle. These events and others helped in strengthening my opposition to the so-called 'War on Terror.'"
In April 2007, Circello left his base in Vicenza, Italy, and went absent without leave (AWOL) in protest of US policy in the Middle East. In November 2007, he turned himself in to the military at Fort Knox and was discharged within three days.
Circello has remained very active with his work against US Foreign Policy, having worked with Iraq Veterans Against the War and the group Courage to Resist before joining March Forward!.
Circello's decision to go AWOL was his way of refusing to deploy to Afghanistan.
I had been fighting myself internally after my time in Iraq, about whether to deploy again," he explained to Truthout, "I ended up back in my old unit that was preparing to deploy, so at that moment I took it into my hands, and decided I wasn't going to go kill Afghans that had done nothing to me, or the American people. It was a defining moment for me."
According to Pentagon figures, since October 2001, more than 50,000 soldiers from all branches of the military have gone AWOL.
John Raughter is the communications director for the American Legion, an organization that describes itself as "a patriotic, war-time veterans organization, devoted to mutual helpfulness," according to its web site.
Raughter is clear about his stance on the rights of soldiers. "We have an all-volunteer force," he explained to Truthout, "These are not draftees. They swore an oath to obey the orders of the Commander in Chief."
According to Raughter, the American Legion does not, in any way, support AWOL soldiers or those who refuse to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan. "Within reason, the military should be able to enforce obedience. Obedience and order are critical for the military to do its mission. People can't pick and choose which orders to obey and which not to [obey]. If it's a lawful order, they are obliged to obey."
Yet the oath enlisted soldiers must take before being deployed, reads:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Marjorie Cohn, president of the National Lawyers Guild, is the co-author of "Rules of Disengagement: The Politics and Honor of Military Dissent" with Kathleen Gilberd. In the book, they write, "Rules of Engagement limit forms of combat, levels of force, and legitimate enemy targets, defining what is legal in warfare and what is not. (They're also) defined by an established body of international (and US) law that leaves no ambiguity."
Cohn and Gilberd argue that every US war since WWII has been illegal. Article 51 of the UN Charter only permits the "right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member ... until the Security Council has taken measures to maintain international peace and security."
In addition, Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 (the war powers clause) of the US Constitution authorizes only both houses of Congress, not the president, to declare war. Nonetheless, that process has been followed only five times in our history and last used on December 8, 1941, after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.
Nevertheless, Raughter believes soldiers who are dissenting against the occupations should have never joined the ranks. "If they are ethically opposed to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, I would say that most of these people have enlisted or reenlisted since the beginning of the war. These wars were occurring when they made this oath of enlistment. It should have come to their minds."
Circello's response to those who refer to their tactic of encouraging soldiers to refuse deployment orders as being "unpatriotic or un-American?
"This is a tactic of demonization and we reject it," he explained, "The corporations profiting in these wars don't care about America or the American people. Is providing mercenaries to kill innocent people overseas, and bombs to kill innocent people, is that American and patriotic? The people who use these terms are demagogues. We can't forget that America was a land of institutionalized slavery, slavery was American, and folks like Dr. Martin Luther King, when they stood up to racism were called un-American ... so the same thing happens today. When you protest war, or call on soldiers to desert based on their own interest, you are called un-American."
Prysner and Circello's organization has stated, "March Forward! supports the right of all service members to refuse illegal and immoral orders. Orders to deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq are just that: illegal and immoral. We have no reason to fight in these wars, and we have every right to refuse to be a part of them."





















In a weird way, this is all fun to watch unfold
We're seeing the controlled opposition from the left and the right more and more each day.
It's been a wild ride, but I think it's still bound to get much much wilder.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
ummmm
I was all hyped until i read this:
http://www.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=VSMTF_10poin...
Sounds like they'd fit right in with the obama army.
Oh yeah. #6 is pretty bad.
Oh yeah. #6 is pretty bad. Sigh.
Freelance copywriter/editor who gets the "freedom message"!
Visit: http://www.DavidBardallis.com
Freelance copywriter/editor who gets the "freedom message"!
Visit: http://www.DavidBardallis.com
courage
it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--
it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--
TA HA! this is why I still don't understand OATHKEEPERS
(or the REAL OATHKEEPERS for that matter) or any of those people that feel that it is important to join a group and swear an oath to do what is right anyway.
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me , according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
I LIKE that these folks just come balls out and say "I'M NOT DOING YOUR KILLING FOR YOU MR. GLOBALIST" no secret handshakes. no special stickers for the locker. Just woke up one day and did it. nice.
one thing that makes me back away: too bad they consciously already are setting themselves up as radicals (as evidenced in the organizer's comments).
If you're patriotic, you are a radical
Look at these dumb good for nothing Zionist Globalists. They got the normal, dumb sheep to agree with them!!
And these people are totally out of their minds, meaning the real radicals.
Global Currency is the idea made up from pre-schoolers.
the word "radicalized"
does not mean "radical lunatic terrorist organization involved in violence and mass murder" (that would be referring to the acts being committed in Iraq against innocent civilians)
He just meant "felt such disgust that it galvanized his ass into action and his mind into questioning mode"
Nothing wrong with being radical; radical problems demand radical solutions.
Don't hate words. Hate war.
I'm just sensitive to how press
takes advantage of little comments and spins,spins, spins.
also how public perception is driven by the placement of words. It is just my shtick I guess. He used the right term to define what he's doing. Its just if I was doing up the article, for wider appeal, I'd restructure how those words came out.
I think this group sounds GREAT!
oh - I hate war.
rest assured I hate war.
You have no clue, nor will you ever. How about I give you
an Oath.I hereby swear /affirm that as soon as the government comes after you I will give your address, name, where your kids are, your wife, your parents. How about I come to your State and kill you like they sent troops to kill in my State in 2005. You must notice they did not send our kids, they brought them from out of State. Your whole post is totally stupid. You have no clue what Oathkeepers is about.
How about you go back and read my post about joining Oathkeepers parts 1,2 and 3. Then maybe you will get an understanding.
I already know you have no understanding of honor. How about I forget my oath to the Constitution and just find you( Don't worry, if the government can find you so can I). I can within 12 hours know where your kids go to school, where your wife works. What deodorant you wear on Mondays. What color underwear you wear on Wednesdays.
You see nothing is sacred as for as the government is concerned. It will not be from your kids, nor your neighbors. They will send my kids to kill you and your family. By the same token, it will be your kids or neighbors kids send here to try and kill me and my family. This is why Oathkeepers was founded. This may be your last hope and you sir are too ignorant to even look at that. Be very happy and relieved that people such as myself and others joined Oathkeepers for it will be this group that teaches my children to not shoot you.LOL. Don't worry Mine never will unless you insult their dad.
My last response will be, I'll see you AFTER!
Semper Fi my Brother. I will cover your ass when your neighbor turns you in.
An Oath once taken must live for Eternity!
1976-1982 USMC, You can thank me for my service by voting for Dr. Ron Paul, President 2012
uhmmmm....homicidal threats are not really what I'm looking for
from someone who claims to be protecting me.
Thank you anyway.
Sir, I am the last person you should be worried about. I
have made no homicidal threats towards you nor anyone else. Take a step back and then take a deep breath. Please look up my previous post and you could possibly understand where I am coming from. I like war and killing probably less than you. I've done enough in my life to last ten lifetimes. It is horrible and the dreams NEVER leave you if you have a soul.
What these guys are doing is quite radical and I applaud their stands for their own individuality. What pissed me off was your reference to oathkeepers without any understanding. We are trying to accomplish the same thing but just in different ways.
The difference is we are asking them to live up to their oath without possibly going to jail for it. What these individuals are doing is assuring jail time for these kids. If you cared that much you would join the service and then disobey the order. Then I would respect you. But not being in the shoes of the troops and encouraging them to go to jail is unconscionable.
Sure, you and I know they are being asked to fight an unjust war. We know it is wrong. Don't you think it would be better to educate them and quite possibly educate the high school kids about the Constitution beforehand would ultimately be a better idea.
No offense intended but your outlook is wrong for the children/troops. Reach, Teach and Inspire is an admiral goal. Don't you think it would be a good start. I would not like to see your kids nor mine going to jail when it could be handled differently. Please take the time to read my post and look into Oathkeepers a little deeper before shooting off in the direction your espousing. You never know, it may be your family that will be in this position in the near future. Mine almost was. I stopped it for at that time they knew I was homicidal where my son was involved. It was quite a laugh at the recruiters office. At least on my part. It must have made some difference for he is now in his second year of college and becoming quite the engineer.LOL
Jim
An Oath once taken must live for Eternity!
1976-1982 USMC, You can thank me for my service by voting for Dr. Ron Paul, President 2012
I am a former rah-rah Bush,
I am a former rah-rah Bush, 911 sucker lets kick some butt war monger. I am so impressed with the people of the DP and our young people. I am an old fart who turned 50 this year :( Way to go guys and gals, lets kick some Bankers Butt and tell them Hell No We Won't Go!
The Constitution is just a Goddamned piece of paper- G W Bush
There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan
"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr
You're not alone Scott
"Just come home"
Truer, more honest and inspiring words have seldom been spoken. Dr. Paul may not be perfect, but no other politician ever brought tears to my eyes. And motivated me to open my wallet.
Dan
PS, I'm only 46, so yes you are an old fart ;)
--------------------------------
Lets face it, the average Amerikan is an idiot..
-Ira Freeman
...let it not be said that we did nothing.
-Ron Paul
Exactly the message of
Exactly the message of "Universal Soldier," Dr. Paul's favorite song. Kudos to these men for taking a brave and unpopular stand for human decency and may I add I am impressed that they are actually aware of the power structure, its aims, and its methods. Bravo, gentlemen! War IS a racket!
Freelance copywriter/editor who gets the "freedom message"!
Visit: http://www.DavidBardallis.com
Freelance copywriter/editor who gets the "freedom message"!
Visit: http://www.DavidBardallis.com
A bump
for March Forward!
I liked this, and hope those numbers increase:
"...According to Pentagon figures, since October 2001, more than 50,000 soldiers from all branches of the military have gone AWOL..."
.....................................................
Give Peace a Chance - John Lennon
Berwick, Columbia County, Pennsylvania
Ron Paul 2012 - The People's Choice
rEVOLution SuperPAC: http://www.revolutionpac.com/
WTP Federal Lawsuit to BAN ALL ELECTRONIC VOTING
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2011-07-26...
That really caught my attention, as well.
_________________________
Moobi
"In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." -- Thomas Jefferson
This is the way to end the wars
"What if they gave a war and nobody showed up?"
Think about it. It's the soldiers who are volunteering! If they didn't, there'd be no one to participate in the war!
Just say hell no, we won't go!
If this insanity is going to end
it has to come from them. We need these fellows to run for office and end these damn wars.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Bump!!
1/2 PRICED GASOLINE CO-OP - get half off at the pump CLICK ME
The National Lawyers Guild,
The National Lawyers Guild, once proclaimed the "foremost bulwark of the Communist Party" has it wrong. The legality of our wars is not dependent on what the United Nations Charter says. But the part about our Constitution is correct. Congress has refused to declare war since December of 1941.
So we have an interesting situation. Soldiers who refuse to obey the orders of a president, who issues these orders in the absence of a Declaration of War by the Congress, and a Congress who finances the president's unlawful actions. When the Congress and the president start following the law, then they can point the finger at others.
To compound the situation, our own politicians now tell us that the Tonkin Gulf Incident never happened. This incident was the justification of the military actions in Vietnam, which resulted in 58,000 American deaths. Nobody was ever held accountable for that lie.
And what about the "weapons of mass destruction"? We know that was a lie also. Our military is sent into combat without a Declaration of War, based on a lie. Where is the accountability? Why don't we see politicians in Leavenworth?
You forget one crucial detail...
Their families are stuck on the base. If they deserted, they would have no way to get home if overseas, their family would be held on base without leave, and they themselves would be on the run as fugitives from justice.
Single soliders could do this if they found a place to hide. But those with familes are stuck. No way out.
But in principle I agree, it's the only real solution out there. But they have too much to lose.
Well,
perhaps "they" need to send the family home before "they" take whatever action "they" plan on taking (like desertion)...just a thought...
Berwick, Columbia County, Pennsylvania
Ron Paul 2012 - The People's Choice
rEVOLution SuperPAC: http://www.revolutionpac.com/
WTP Federal Lawsuit to BAN ALL ELECTRONIC VOTING
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2011-07-26...
If...
If the government can tap our phones and read our mail, you think they aren't monitoring the guys on military bases for christ sakes? Hell if family members left the base in droves, they could figure out that something was up and stop them. These guys are screwed. They know it, their family knows it and the Government relies on it.
FYI one of my friends BF is in Iraq right now. He already told her to watch what she says and sends him in text and online, because it's monitored. It's all "national security" to the feds. Those people aren't "citizens" to them... they (and their family) are US government property. And they are treated as such. "We preserve democracy, NOT practice it..."
I think you mean "fugitives
I think you mean "fugitives from injustice."
Freelance copywriter/editor who gets the "freedom message"!
Visit: http://www.DavidBardallis.com
Freelance copywriter/editor who gets the "freedom message"!
Visit: http://www.DavidBardallis.com
A simple question...
Does protecting the safety of your family justify you committing illegal and immoral acts? This isn't NAZI Germany, YET. The government is not keeping the dependents hostages. Single members should consider accepting courts martial vs committing war crimes.
bump
Thank you for posting.
___________________
Daily Paul Family Christmas Day Dec 17th
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/118367
Merry Christmas Patriots*))
Website:
http://www.libertypoet.com/
Twitter:
http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul