Discussion: Survival > Home heating
Submitted by dailypauler on Tue, 12/29/2009 - 18:36
The way things look many of us and our families will be becoming homeless soon if we do not make appropriate cut backs in spending. Energy consumption cut backs and / or upgrades will be one the things many of us will be looking at to reduce spending.
With that said and with the newer advancements in heaters, such as, HHO and gasifires, etc. what is proving to be the best heating technologies at this time? If you have a suggestion, please list the pros / cons.
Thanks
This past spring we purchased
This past spring we purchased an energy efficient wood burning fireplace insert for our existing inefficient fireplace that we never used.
It weighed 550 pounds, is rated 60,000 BTUs, and was listed to heat 2,000 sq. ft. We have had over 30 inches of snow so far and have had about 10 days of below zero temperature to date. Our furnace has not kicked on once yet. Our entire house has never been so warm. Even our tile floor is warm this year.
We do have a free supply of wood. We had our LP tank filled this fall and any gas we will have used will be due to our hot water heater.
The only disadvantages I can see is that it is labor intensive for my husband who chops and hauls the wood himself. But I can tell that chopping wood for him is not a chore. He seems invigorated by the whole process and has lost 20 pounds since last spring. But I'm not sure that everyone would want to go to all that work. The only other disadvantage that I can see is that despite the door being sealed, I need to dust a little more often. Also it does have a fan to distribute the heat, but the amount of electricity needed is very little.
A wood burning stove is said to be even more efficient, but since we already had a fireplace, we bought the insert. We researched for 3 months before we decided on the Jotul 550 insert. To us it seemed the most well built, and had some features that we liked...one being that it is flush with the face of fireplace. http://www.jotul.com/en-US/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Woo...
wood burning stove made of
soapstone and iron frame with catalytic converter to burn the smoke. great heat and low use of wood. look up woodstock woodburning stoves
death to traitors
Has anyone checked into these?
http://mysolarbackup.com/ We have a ground source heat pump with a propane fireplace for backup heat. The fireplace can work without the blower, but having a blower would help keep the pipes from freezing.
DO NOT go with a 90-95% heat pump/furnace
Any savings you gain will be GONE due to their maintenace and problems. I know from experience and my HVAC guy told me he hates them also for this same reason.
Wood burner in the basement is the best because you can always find wood.
If you can get hard coal go with that.
do not use the pellet stoves either. they take a massive amount of cleaning/maintenance and if the electric goes out your cold. also, you are the slave to the pellet seller.
Gwinnett County Georgia
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Thomas Jefferson
not true at all.
Using a blanket statement like that for ALL 90-95% efficient units is inaccurate. What maint costs are associated with a 90-95% efficient that are not present with an 80% efficient unit? Also, there are soooo many brands and series of units in all different makes and models that using a blanket statement like that without consdering the differences in models is just not accurate.
ALL heating/ac units should be serviced before the season they are intended for. This is true for all units. Service them before you are going to use them. Some units (80-85% effiecient included, as well as 90-95%, as well as heat pumps, etc)the warrenty "can be" voided if you do not do regular seasonal maintenence. If you buy a new unit, 90% efficient, and a new unit 80% efficient, ran them both identically, you would get similer production out of both, except better efficiency from one. Can a "txv" go bad in place of a capillary tube? Sure, but thats on any unit that runs a TXV, and most residential heat pumps arent 90% anyways. A 90% efficient may even be better on savings because of the better technology being used, such as a serpentine Heat exchanger, as opposed to a clam shell heat exchanger, (serpentine last much much longer, newer technology, and you dont find holes in as many.) Due to having better technology,the newer more efficient units dont have nearly the amount of repair and maint problems that older... less efficient units have. My 95% efficient unit has been running for eight years with nothing more then yearly maint. done to it. I once had to replace the capacitor on my AC unit, but thats another unit/issue entirely.
If you get a 95% efficient unit, you will save more money on efficiency and electricity then if you got an 85% efficient unit. Thats common sense. Also, the maintence cost would be less on a 95% efficient unit, simply because its newer technology. Ive owned both, and Ive worked in the industry for a while, noone has ever come up to me looking for a less efficient unit, especially because the less efficient units run better. So thats my take, from someone in the industry who is Nate, CFC, and Universally certified.
Pellet stoves arent bad, they are very efficient and the only end result in the hopper is usually some minerals left over from the pellets. Pellets are cheap too, compared to LP at least... but you are correct in that the achilles heel of a pellet stove is its dependancy on electricity. Coal is probably one of the dirtiest heating fuels around, much dirtier then a pellet stove.
I work in the HVAC field. I
I work in the HVAC field. I run a 95% efficient gas furnace/AC unit. however, I recently installed a wood burning stove in my basement and ran a flu out of my wall. Liquid petrol (LP) costs about 850 bucks to fill my tank, but my gas furnace will run on that tank for two winters. (we also have new windows to help keep cold out) We usually keep the thermostat at sixty seven degrees, so the upstairs stays at around sixty six/seven degrees, and the basement (partially unfinished, 3000 sq foot raised rambler) would stay 10/15 degrees cooler.
This year since I installed the wood stove, we barely run the gas furnace. We keep it on seventy two degrees upstairs, and we just load up the woodstove for the evening. That thing has the ability to heat me out of the basement! its now easily sixty eight/seventy degrees in my basement and the temps hover right around seventy/seventy two in the upstairs. Now late at night, the fire dies down, and around three or four I can usually hear the Gas Furnace kick on for the first time of the night.
I purchased a chord for a hundred dollars, and I wont even go through all of it this season.
So it looks like with the addition of the woodstove, I may now be able to get three winters out of an 80% full tank of LP. (they only fill the tanks to 80% due to saftey reasons) and I will get atleast one, maybe one and a half winters out of a chord of wood.
I would have gone with a pellet stove bc they are much more efficient, however as many have said, if the electric goes out, you will get cold... and there is no sense in having two heating systems if they both run on electricity. So I went with a wood stove, and though they are a little dirtier with the wood, woodchips, ash, soot, etc they are cheap producers of incredible amounts of heat, non dependant on electricity. You can also boil water on the top of it as well, another bonus.
There are a lot of ways to keep warm for cheap. Boilers are a great way to do this, and they last a looonngg time if you do the annual cleanings and maintain them.
other little things you can do to maintain efficiency in the winter is as some have said, plastic your windows, buy a new thermostat for your exhisting unit. Analog (mercury) t-stats very in accuracy by as much as six/seven degrees, think of a fifty degree day and a sixty degree day for your differnece in warmth. Window treatments put a buffer between you and the cold as well. Drapes and curtains act as a blanket on top of the cold window pains, keeping a lot of that cold away from you.
As far as efficiency goes, make sure to clean or change your furnace filter monthly, and have your heating/cooling system serviced every year before the heating/cooling season. Also, and Im sure everyone thinks they do this already, but make sure all the vents in your home are open. It makes it much easier for your unit to breath and circulate warm air.
Just a few helpful hints from someone who does residential work on the regular.
Very nice,
thanks for the information.
we bought one of these . . .
http://www.southernhearth.com/freestanding-heating-stoves/wo...
over 30 years ago, and we've been using it for about half that time (lived in a place with a fireplace insert for 15 years)--
we have a small home, so we are able to heat our home with this on about 5-10 cords/year . . .
we only heat a 'great room'--
so we sleep with lots of blankets at night--
we do keep our furnace at 60 all the time--just in case one of us forgets to stoke the stove in the night--
but when we keep the fire stoked, our monthly bills (including electric) for the furnace and a gas kitchen range/oven are under $100; the winter before we got this hooked up (we used the highest quality of piping, etc.) our bills were hitting over $300, and we kept it at 64--
at $200 or more saved for 6 months out of the year, *you've* already paid for *your* stove--almost--
because of this, our bedrooms are used only for sleeping--
anything else is done within 20 feet of the woodstove--
we have a two story home (less than 1,000 square feet excluding basement which we do not heat), and the heat goes up; we have ceiling fans--so that those who sleep upstairs are warmer--
depending upon where you live (we are quite rural and in the north with access to free trees, and it is a lot of working: hauling, cutting, splitting, carrying)--
this feels more self-reliant--
we have no problems with this; it meets all the EPA requirements, and we live in an area where smoke isn't a problem either--
when we bought it, it cost a little less, too--
it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--
I need to add:
how people dress really does matter, too--
go for wool, layers--
keep throws all over the house for people to use when sitting--
we make sure that all of us have wool sweaters and warm slippers--
wool socks are a big thing--
also, make sure you have warm outerwear, so that when you go outside, you don't lose too much heat--
we also only use flannel sheets and wool blankets in the winter--
this is the best we can do--
it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--
I had my gas fireplace
removed last summer and had a wood stove put in working good so far.
If people have electric another thing I like is my electric heating mattress pad, love it. Makes the bed toasty warm with adjustable levels of heat, you can turn down the whole house heat and still stay warm in bed.
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Do you have your timer thermostat
pre-warm your house before getting up?
Electric heating pad, is something I've considered.
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No need.
When we first got the wood stove, I tried setting my T-stat timer to kick on at a certain time, however the house would still be warm some days and it would kick on and then turn right back off because desired temp was met. (house still warm from woodstove)or if one night it wasnt cold enough to run the woodstove and then around four thirty the furnace kicked on eventhough the house didnt need heat, and Id get woken up by dry stifling heat coming through my vents in an already warm house. So after a few trial and errors, I just leave my furnace on heat, but turn the temp to right around the temp my house is, at four thirty in the morning, if my woodstove has been running at night, and when the woodstove fire dies, the temp automatically goes down, furnace comes on, heat maintained. I usually turn my T-stat off when I leave for work because the only ones home are the dogs. I also turn it off if im home, bc id rather stoke up a good fire anyways.
Also, a woodstove in your basement running all night = warm hard wood floors upsatirs in the mornings!
The most "efficient", as in
The most "efficient", as in BTUs of heat per energy input, are the various heat pumps, with the in ground ones a commenter below mentioned the "best", but also most involved. Governments may pick up some of the tab for these though, for those who can stomach dealing with the government for anything.
An issue with these, is that they are all electric as far as I know, so won't help much if power is out. And may not be "efficient" in terms of dollars, if electricity is much more expensive than other fuels where one lives.
If S really HTF, some means of heating and cooking with easily portable fuels is probably good idea. Being entirely dependent on some faraway utility and a grid sounds like a bit of a high wire act.
For insulation, focusing on insulating the heck out of the bare minimum of the house, and closing off the rest for winter may make sense on a budget. Just make sure water and sewer lines do not run through the frozen parts and freeze. Most places in the lower 48 don't stay cold for hat long, and being able to enjoy a larger, more comfortable home in the summer may be worth putting up with a smaller section of it in winter.
Gotta Chill?
I know this sounds corney but.....
This can keep a lot of people from getting sick, if they just heed the message.
Get a couple of hair dryers. You can pick em up used for 2 to 5 bucks at the thrift store.
Keep one at your bed side. Instant heat for heating up a cold bed when you first get into it. Also, works great for heating up cold clothing and shoes when you first put them on in the morning. Catch a chill? Stick the hair dryer in your jacket/pants and get good and warm. Don't just do a light warming, warm yourself up well. The heat trapped in your clothes will stay with you for a while.
Yeah, yeah I know it sounds corney, but I don't care. It works great.
But THAT can't happen here! * Because some animals are more equal than others -Animal Farm- * A patriot is someone who supports their country all the time and the government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks
radiant heat.
Pex tubing/radiant heat.
Laid down 3/4" one side foil polyisocyanurate board. Sealed edges, taped joints. On top of the foil laid 200ft coils of pex tubing. On top of the tubing 7/16 (10mm) OSB sheets. Screws in corners to hold sheets in place. Cover with carpet or sheet goods. $150 for a Taco Pump. Connected my to 22,000 Btu/hr gas water heater.
Threw out worn out and noisy dusty forced hot air 220,000 btu/hr furnace.
Great Stuff to stop leaks, plastic film on windows. House built in 1848 first time we felt warm in 25 years, in spite of mid-Michigan winters and previous insulation projects which included 6" in attic and 1" foam board all around (added last section last night.) Saved $200 on a $300/month January bill.
Next step add a moisture passing air barrier (tyvek or slitted foil backed paper) over existing 6" fiber glass insulation to stop the hot air from passing through the porous fiberglass to be continuously replaced by cold attic air.
Considering adding the foil backed bubble wrap under the floor in the unheated basement.
Foil is a radiation barrier. You can see the sun shine through plain foam boards. Inside heat "shines" into the cold night too.
I bougth one of those point and measure thermometers to track down cold areas and fix them up.
Rule of thumb. For every degree the average wall temperature is below 68F th air has to be heated one degree above 68F for the same level of comfort. The floor is 80-90F the walls are 40-55F depending on the outside temp.
Gas water heater is downstairs. During 2 day power outage in February and 10F outside temps the house maintained 55F without circulator pump.
Two story house 640 sqft per floor.
Use radiant electric for task heating, think task lighting Heat and light where you need it. Heat lamp over toilet rocks. One unit, we call the grillmaster was great for pre-warming the bed. Convection heaters suck, IMO.
Heated floor is always heating the coldest air in the house. Warm air circulates up naturally to be replaced by coldest air.
My son was first, It worked so well I copied . Daughter just did hers. I hear is really big out Wyoming way.
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Check out this video ona
Check out this video ona Tesla Generator. I am getting ready to make one, does anybody have any experience using one?
http://www.teslasecret.net/hyperlinkmagic/1
There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan
"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr
yes
heat bills are nuts for me. i am spending about $1000 per month to heat this house. I need a better way to do this. Thanks for starting this link.
Insulation is the most
Insulation is the most important step in keeping your home warm.
http://endthelie.com
http://blacklistednews.com/
http://www.infowars.com/
soda/pop can solar heater
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRZvAAqzXIw&feature=related
i think everyone can appreciate this cheap solution, it may not be the complete solution but every little bit helps
I do not fear death, I fear life without liberty.
That's pretty cool.
I couldn't tell how much it costs though. Makes me want to experiment with some soda cans.
Oh thanks for posting that.
These heaters are very efficient & no maintenance.
If you can deal with the cost, they make great heat.
http://www.rinnai.us/direct-vent-wall-furnaces/
These electric heaters work great also.
http://www.comfortzoneheaters.org/
I have two of these.
one for each house.
http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/hvac/kerr_tw2000_main.asp
But they burn a ton of wood. I go thru 50 cords a year. 1 a week for each house. I am a tree guy so wood does not cost me a penny. But a lot of work splitting all that wood.
No job is too tough for the Highlander TW2000 Wood Boiler. Ideal for the most demanding residential applications, our unique heat exchanger design greatly reduces cleaning frequency. Paired with a "tankless" hot water coil or an indirect water heater, the Highlander can also provide domestic hot water.
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I have a outdoor wood furnace
same concept except it heats air instead of water, it runs through the ducts.
It is a old unit about 30 years old, and has no insulation just a wood stove in a big metal box. It heats the house great but I am losing a lot of heat to the yard as well.
I am burning a lot of wood, I am going to come out about a foot from the outer shell and lay a block wall all the way around. Put dow board on the inside of the block and then fill the space between the heater and that with sand, lay the block high enough the do the top as well. I think I will hold more heat and burn less wood that way.
*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*
Re: I have a outdoor wood furnace
Sounds good.
Another thing you might consider when doing your modification is:
My uncle got some high temp coil pipe the pipe I.D. was about 2 and a half inches. It was around a foot and a half long and the coil itself had about a 12" tunnel going thru the middle of it.
Anyway he put it in his fire place, loaded the wood in the middle of the coil and connected a hair dryer to one end of the coil pipe. The hot air blowing out the other end of the pipe was amazingly HOT.
That heat consisted mainly of a lot of heat that just would of gone to waste up the chimney. Just doing this was extremely cheap and effective.
But THAT can't happen here! * Because some animals are more equal than others -Animal Farm- * A patriot is someone who supports their country all the time and the government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks
you might want to get
a green house. a hoop type and stick it in there. this way you can grow food thru winter. lettus and such.
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I'd suggest a rocket stove...
You can make one for next to nothing... and they burn about 1/8th the wood and produce allot of heat...and you can also cook with them!
I spent a few days looking over the internet for how to videos and the best ones I put here:
http://miketherevolutionary.blogspot.com/p/simple-living.html
The Fireteam for Freedom lives on!
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Re: I'd suggest a rocket stove...
Cool link MikeonFire, got stuck there watching a few videos. I take it's your site?
Goin back now to check more stuff out.
But THAT can't happen here! * Because some animals are more equal than others -Animal Farm- * A patriot is someone who supports their country all the time and the government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks
Happy to help!
Happy to help!
The Fireteam for Freedom lives on!
http://miketherevolutionary.blogspot.com/
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My husband has no work, and is ill
and my work brings in only about 5 or 600 a month. We are making it, however, as our mortgage is paid,(having built our home ourselves), and our taxes are very low. We heat our home with a wood cookstove, and another on very cold days. The cookstove of course is where we cook, also, to save on propane, and heat water for dishes, too, to save on propane. We bought the cookstove used, an antique, for 150. Amazing how one can live on so little, if you really are open to possibilities. We are fortunate that hunters give us deer, which we butcher, and dry and can. We grow our own vegetables. We live where we can buy wheat from local wheat farmers, and grind our own wheat for bread, cooked in that same wood cookstove, on bricks put on the bottom. This is living high on next to nothing.
Feelin a little cold right now?
Thought some of you might like viewin this.....
But THAT can't happen here! * Because some animals are more equal than others -Animal Farm- * A patriot is someone who supports their country all the time and the government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks