I'm moving to the first state that secedes from the Union. Who's with me?

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I'm truly starting to believe that this is the only way out from this craziness...

I look forward to the breakdown of our Union not only just to put the federal government in check but for also states to compete for inhabitants...

May the freest state win!

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What if they don't let you?

If a state secedes, it won't be a state anymore.

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

Actually, if a "state" secedes it will become again what it

was originally. A "State" not a "state". We were supposed to be a group of strong independent sovereign Nations joined by a weak federation. Not a group of weak states governed by a dictatorial federal government.

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

What's all the fuss?

Just send out a Declaration of Character to all concerned parties that you do not recognize or consent to contract with any corporate or governmental entity that does not agree to only be bound by the Constitution for the united States of America and the Constitution of State of (your state here) and all constitutionally compliant laws, rules and regulations. It's cheaper and easier than stuffing that sofa bed into a U-Haul to scamper away.

"You've always had the ability to go home Dorothy."

Depends a bit on the state,

Depends a bit on the state, but if it's meaningfully less oppressive than the any remaining-in-the-union state/fed combo, heck yeah!

A major goal for the movement, needs to be more freedom for the states; if necessary going all the way to secession. And even if the outcome need not be secession, the fact that enough of a state's residents realize they would be better off alone than under the current federal government, is a prerequisite for any serious renegotiation with the feds about what is, and is not, the feds' proper role. As long as the feds know they can refuse to cede power, confident a state's residents are too scared to meat hard with hard, nothing will ever get done.

And once/if states have more independence, we will have a true democracy, with people able to vote with their feet, which is the only kind of vote that means anything anyway.

On a practical not, freedom lovers should do their best to ensure Obama's latest foray into trampling on states does not go unnoticed, despite normally vocal Republicans being uncommonly quiet. The proposal to extend the federally sponsored "build America" bond program, will transfer the cost of some states lax fiscal management to residents of other states, via the federal budget. So, New York City will issue "build America" bonds to pay for unionized labor futzing around with subways, with the rest of the country having to foot part of the bill. Just like the rest of the country will be footing the bill for bailing out their bankers, and all those dependent on their bankers' largesse.

A way to stop this, is for the states tasked with simply shutting up and paying, to refuse to do so, in effect seceding. Tell the feds to send in the FBI if they want to drive in income taxes. Then start using sound money not open to manipulation for the benefit of bankers and the feds' favored groups, and again dare the feds to send in the FBI to enforce the "legal tender" status of their unconstitutional currency.

It would be good for the movement to encourage using the geographic concentrations of the beneficiaries from all the federal interventions to our advantage, by educating people they have no obligation to get up in the morning to work, just to bail out mismanaged companies and municipals in other states. And that there is precious little the feds can do about it, if entities as large as individual states simply decide to no longer play along.

Make that the first warm-climate

state to secede, and I'll seriously consider it (too old and too Californian for cold winters.)

And that will be ....

Texas the only state that has common sense over the years.

TheKingIsComing

If it

ever happens it will either be Vermont or Texas first. Even Debra Medina isn't calling for that to happen.We should stay strong as one country and take it back.

This is what I don't understand and

maybe someone can help me with it. The elite want the FED gone to bring down the country and implement a new currency. The elite want the country broken up into sections so it will be easier to handle. What the hell, are we doing their work for them? It is creepy.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

Let's not confuse

"the country" with what passes for the "federal government". Succession is not necessary but the backing off of out-of-control federal tyranny is.

Why sit around and wait for a

Why sit around and wait for a State Legislature to secede, when the individual is fully capable of seccesion without the State? If you want seccession, then just do it.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Freedom lovers everywhere...

would do well to take this advice. We cry for our lost freedoms, when at our own insistence, we fail to enact our Liberty. We blame trespass on others for signs we clearly do not post, but claim are there. Liberty is not simply our belief, it is our faith in our rights, and the actions taken on that behalf. You want freedom? Then take it (this is aimed at myself as well).

Assert Your Authority

I agree elrococco

Freedom and liberty come from within and require self governance. We "The People" who created the state are asking the State to cleave from the protection and care of the federal government yet, how many of the people are willing to first separate themselves from the protection and benefit of the federal government? We "The People" must lead by example or our speach is just the idle chatter of the enslaved. Check out SEDM.org and become a leader.

Thanks Michael for......

the great read. Alot continues to go on in the freedom movement. Rock N Roll!!!

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

Dennis Steele wants to create a new socialist republic there

There being VT. One of the programs he'd like to implement is a socialist medical care system modeled after the Swiss' health care system. So I suppose if your idea of 'freedom' and 'liberty' involves being forced to purchase ANYTHING lest you become the victim of state enacted violence against you, sure... Dennis Steele is your guy.

I don't believe that you'd really approve of Mr. Steele if you knew this, Michael. I certainly don't. And please don't take my word for it though, go check his campaign webpage.

If enough socialist decide they want to withdraw from the union

because it isn't socialist enough for them (how that is possible I can't fathom), then what is the difference in that and a group of libertarians seceding?

Freedom is freedom, if they want to be socialist and occupy the land, and the population of that area agrees with them, then more power to them. Do I want to live there? No I don't.

I agree that their chosen political system is totally repugnant to individual liberty, however if they win an open election on the socialism platform and then secede after that, with the support of the local populace, I think that is just fine and dandy.

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

Are you kidding?

If enough people decide to seceed in VT that are socialist, you think it's OK for them to cram more socialism down my throat because I happen to 'own' property and live here?

Yes, I was kidding whatever you personally want should be the

way it is for everyone else, whatever you deem to be freedom should be the same for everyone else. Only you have an accurate view of what freedom is.

Freedom is only to be viewed through your eyes for all the rest of mankind.

And, I am not using the collective you, I am using you None specifically only you can decide for the rest of society what we should do.

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

Thanks for proving my point, if even inadvertently.

Actually, as soon as you realize that liberty and freedom are the absence of using force on people to control them then you may understand what those two things truly are. Until then you're simply part of the very problem that you think you're trying to solve.

Exactly! And that's just how

Exactly! And that's just how this country is supposed to be. All States acting like their own little countries, with their own laws, and the Fed there to sort out disagreements (contracts), help provide for common defense, and to defend the citizen from the States violating the Constitution. I think Reagan said it, not sure, but basically he said, the people can vote with their feet. In other words, find a state you can agree with and live there.

VT is beautiful, and the people are wonderful. I lived there for many years. Their laws are fair and protect the interest of those residents in the state. Not sure I'd go back if it were officially socialist. I'm leaning more towards TX. Michael Badnarik told me once that if TX were to finally secede, he'd run for Pres. He said, if you'd like to immigrate, the only requirement is that you have a gun and know how to use it. I suppose you'd need it since the Feds are unlikely, now that Lincoln set the precedent, of letting any state secede peacefully.

Blessings )o(

When I was younger the state

When I was younger the state government of Texas came out with a "Don't mess with Texas" campaign to clean up litter.... I for one think that saying says alot about the Texans. I do believe if they decided to leave it would end up being a civil war because the Texans would fight back.

Corporal and Economic Coercion

Coercion in all of its many dimensions would be brought heavily to bear on any state that managed to take steps in the direction of secession. The United States government would crush the life out of any such "state," then carpet-bag it just like it did to the southern states when they tried it, and like it did in Vietnam, and like it is now doing in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. There is no Constitutional mechanism for secession. There is no leaving this juggernaut alive. Any attempts to leave it are tantamount to suicide. Only individual expatriation leaves life and limb intact and thus may be the only remaining recourse to the free pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness that remains open to Americans. The federal government is now so awesomely powerful that another civil war is completely and absolutely futile.

You need to watch

The Singing Revolution.

"no Constitutional mechanism

"no Constitutional mechanism for secession"

I beg to differ:

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

Additionally, the entire concept, found within the Constitution, concerning the nature of the States, both in the Doctrine of Retained and Reserved Rights is substantial. When considered that, along with the firm foundation upon which the Constitution was written that the People are ultimately Sovereign and that government governs only by the Consent of the People grounds the Act of Secession into the very foundation of the Constitution.

Indeed, in the Federalist, this is given an explicit explanation: "...the States will retain all preexisting authorities which may not be exclusively delegated to the federal head."

"All authorities, of which the States are not explicitly divested in favor of the Union, remain with them in full vigor."

Virginia, in particular, expressed their views of acceding to the union in no uncertain terms:

"We, the delegates of the People of Virginia, declare and make known, that the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the People of the United States, be returned by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression"

William Rawl states that "The Union is an association of Republics". He continues by saying: "It depends on the State itself to retain or abolish the principle of representation, because it depends on the State itself whether it continues a member of the Union." "The secession of a State from the Union depends upon the will of the People. The Constitution of the United States is to a certain extent, incorporated with the Constitutions of the Several States by the act of the People. Nothing is more certain than that the act [secession] should be deliberate, clear, and unequivocal. The perspicuity and solemnity of the original obligation require correspondent qualities in its dissolution."

Hence, our Union is a federation of States [Republics], free and independent, associated by a voluntary compact.

John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court went as far as to say: "The State governments did not derive their powers from the general [federal] government, but each [State] government derived its power from the People"

Indeed, it is very evident in a variety of State Ratification documents that the States fully understood that the union was based on a completely voluntary basis and in the same manner that the States Acceded to the Union they could Seceded from the Union. Where did the States surrender their Sovereignty or where did the People surrender theirs in the Constitution? There is, within the Constitution, as well as the Ordinances of Ratification, the inherent Right of the States and the People, those Rights were never ceded to the general [federal] government at any time and to do so would, in fact, negate the entire concept behind both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution itself. The powers delegated to the general government were extremely limited and very restrictive in nature, there was no absolutely sovereignty ceded to the federal government and all powers that were delegated were of a very specific nature, for a very specific purpose.

The Act of Secession, no different in nature than the Act of Accession are based upon voluntary actions of the consent of the People therefore, if the consent of the People gave rise to the Act of Accession to the union is it not also necessary that the same consent of the People be withdrawn and the Act of Secession be entered into by the People?

The general [federal] government was a creation of the States in Convention, they are its creator by the People's consent. The creation is not greater than that which created it.

John Quincy Adams put it very clearly: The indissoluble link of union between the People of the Several States [free and independent] of this confederated nation is, after all, not in the right, but in the heart. If the day should ever come when the affections of the People of these States shall be alienated from each other; when the fraternal spirit shall give way to cold indifference, or collision of interest shall fester into hatred, the banks of political associations will not long hold together parties no longer attracted by the magnetism of conciliated interests and kindly sympathies; and far better will it be for the People of the disunited States to part in friendship from each other, than to be held together by constraint. Then will be the time for reverting to the precedents which occurred at the formation and adoption of the Constitution, to form again a more perfect union, by dissolving that which could no longer bind, and to leave the separated parts to be reunited by law of political gravitation to the centre."

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes

Republica, this argues that

Republica, this argues that we are still in 1776, but we are not. Much has happened since 1776, much that cannot be just simply ignored as though it is still the same. The Law is still the same, as law CANNOT change. If it changes, then it is not law. Just as the law of Gravity NEVER changes, it happens long before Newton wrote it on paper, and will continue to happen regardless of what man writes down, so to is the Law. It happens not because man wrote it on paper, but because it is Law. It happens regardless of what man does. If it is depends upon man, then it is a part of the Legal system, not Law.

So if the STATE secedes, is it Lawful for it to retain property that belongs to the Federal?

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Actually, this argues that

Actually, this argues that people are still people, whether the year is 1776 or 2010 and that people, who are not naturally inclined toward revolution, will, given the impetus revolt. People are, for lack of a better word, followers and that fact is proved time and again by their willingness to allow themselves to be impressed into what amounts to a voluntary servitude. That voluntary servitude remains only as long as those who impose that servitude operate within a narrow channel of benefits, once the servitude becomes an undue burden to those captured in that voluntary servitude, the servitude is no longer seen as voluntary and a shift in perception begins to grow within the population.

We are at an advantage in this country because of the nature of our country’s history, while it has been effectively buried from most of the population, eventually more and more of the population will begin to seek answers. Most of the time when there is a period of unrest or uneasiness, people tend to return to their historical bearings. As such, the probability that the principles found within the Law of the Land will reemerge as more people begin to search for answers that can no longer be provided by their government.

Now, concerning federal lands within the States, such lands were ceded to the federal government by the State governments and, as such, such lands can be retrieved by the State legislature if that is indeed the will of the People. In most cases federal lands were granted to the federal government for a variety of reasons, most of the early grants were due to defense. The Constitution states a rather strange statement: “nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.” It is an interesting statement, don’t you think?

Now, since the basis of Sovereignty rests within the Several States through the instrumentality of the People’s consent, it would appear that all lands deemed public would fall under that instrumentality.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes

People are still people, but

People are still people, but the law is no longer law. People have consented to a different law than was originally instituted. So this is NOT 1776. The legal system is not the same, and people have consented to that new legal system. The old system still exist, as true law never changes, and has not changed. But this much HAS changed since 1776. The unlimited right to contract is LAW, it has existed and been recognized since the beginning of civilization. We are to make no covenant with THEM if we are to be people free from bondage.

Article 1 Sec 10
No State shall...pass...Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts.

The US Citizen is a member of a private contract, it is by CHOICE, a political choice , that cannot be impaired.

And land is not the only property of the Federal, its CITIZENS are also its property.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

That is my point, the law has

That is my point, the law has not changed only the form of government that has distorted the application of the law to suit its own purposes, nevertheless, the People have both the ability and, in time, the power to restore that which was lost. I am not fool enough to believe it will be a peaceful restoration.

As I said, the Sovereignty of the People is the ultimate source of power, even if they are not completely aware of that fact at the moment.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes

But there is no need for the

But there is no need for the States to secede. The individual can secede, regardless of what the State does. And there is no need for any violence. The State, which is the Federal Government, recognizes the individuals right to secede from the governemnt. Our current form of Government is the same as has been found in much of history. There are only 2 kinds of Law, Natural Law and Equity (although there are many different names, all law is one or the either). And Natural Law creates Equity, Contract Law. There is God's Law, and Man's Law. The idea expressed in the Declaration of Independence that governance is by consent, is the Natural Law that creates Equity. This Law has thousands of years, it is not 230 years old. By consent to contract we are bound. A State's seccesion DOES NOT absolve you of your obligation to the agreements you have made. Therefore State seccesion will solve nothing. If you are a US Citizen the US government claims authority over you ANYWHERE in the world, in any country. The only way to solve this is to expatriate. But this option is available right now, regardless of what a particular state does.

Seccesion is and always has been available to the Citizen. And State seccesion does not cure your Citizenship, only EACH individual can do that. Therefore there really is no need for the States to secede, but to restore the Republic only requires that the individual secede.

The only way that the Federal Government can stop the individual from secession is to violate the 13th Amendment, and commit crime in the Natural Law of holding man without his consent.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

I beg to differ.

I think that secession is inevitable. Ron Paul's understanding of that is one of the things that origionally drew me to him.

As he says, what is going to happen when the Fed can no longer deliver on thier promises?

That time is right around the corner if you but do the math.

I think the Russian model is the best I've seen... the US broken down into 5-6 different socioeconomic areas.

As far as a civil war being futile, the odds are actually on the side of the general population. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is the ~threat~ of violence that our government uses so well.

It is only a threat though. They cannot use violence on too large a scale or they will lose. They are quite aware of that.

Or a lot of us would already be in a pen.

:)

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~