Constitutionalists and Christians have much in common! By joining forces they could quickly regain control of the U.S.!
Submitted by Ralph Waldo on Fri, 01/08/2010 - 17:56
There is no doubt that Christianity and individual liberty were the primary philosophies that formed this nation and its constitution.
With 76% percent, or 228 million Americans claiming to be Christians, both movements would do well to recognize the overwhelming, unprecedented and unstoppable political power that would result if these natural allies would once again join forces.
I say it's not just coincidence that Mr. Liberty himself is a Christian. Without uttering a word, what an example this man can set!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jRO3hptL4U
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions
Once again
Read "Common Sense." It is only 46 pages long. Paine was known to be a critic of religious institutions and their exploitation of particular parts of the Bible to base their institutional doctrines (as did Jefferson). However, he used the Bible and God to express the liberty, natural law message, and to refute tyranny. It was very effective. You are correct when you say that Americans were not all “Christians” in the context of an institution all of its own; a supermajority of people in America based their religion beliefs on the Bible from which Christians base their beliefs. For those whose God lived outside of the Bible, were considered heathens and savages by greater society...their basis for belief was illegitimate. Sure things in America have changed since then (for the better or worse depending on where you are coming from) but the point is that common ground can be found in spreading the liberty message that will apply to most people regardless of their religious beliefs. The trick is finding something that ties all people together that people place higher than ties to government. That is why “Common Sense” was so successful.
Jefferson believed in God, but did not think much of the organized religions. He did not want a Church of England to have control over government like it did in Great Britain. Here is couple of facts for you about Jefferson. In regard to religion in education Jefferson emphasized that religion in its moral, literary, and historical aspects had a place in the curriculum. (1) Non-denominational Bible based teaching was embraced in schools up until after the Civil war when government schools were put into place. Jefferson said this about the system of moral broached by Jesus, "if filled up in the true style and spirit of the rich fragments he left us, would be the most perfect and sublime that has ever been taught by man." (2) He also said this, "I am a Christian in the only sense he (Jesus) wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed other." (3)
It seems that I could debate these issues all day, but I see no point....the recorded history speaks for itself. Read what these people wrote in context and more than just bits and pieces and it all becomes pretty clear. Encyclopedias are sources with filtered information to push a certain view and many websites cannot be depended on for valid information a they tend to place words out of context too many times. Lots of progressive BS out there. Words out of context are fitting for political smears, but not for those who want more truth and transparency.
1. Merrill D. Peterson, Thomas Jefferson & the new nation, (Oxford University Press, Inc. 1970), 974.
2. Ibid., 959.
3. Ibid., 958.
"Encyclopedias are sources
"Encyclopedias are sources with filtered information to push a certain view"
This is very true. And words are redefined in dictionaries. In 1864 many words were redefined in Webster's and other dicitonaries. Words like Federal, State and many others that CHANGED the meaning of Madison's notes from the Constitutional Convention which was the source for reference of intent when interpretting the Constitution. These changes were obviously made at the end of the War, in advance of the 14th Amendment. What composed a Federal Government had a different definition in 1789 than as it is defined today, as well as State and many other important political words. That the definition of Federal and State was changed 4 years before government actually matched those definitions clearly shows that it was planned in advance.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
Divide
Why divide? Liberty is the message! It has nothing to do with your faith or lack of. As RP says "Freedom is popular". We come together as freedom lovers with different beliefs for personal matters. I don't care what group you divide me into I care about freedom for ALL!
Here is a multiple choice question.
Since Christians make up 76% of America or 228 million people, thinking a national election can be won without them is:
A. Unrealistic
B. Ludicrous
C. Blatant Stupidity
Wrong.
What does the word Christian mean? Are they one group? How many support the GOP? Is the GOP leadership, the folks that laugh at Ron Paul, Christian? How would you court Christians? What would you promise them? What if many Christians really do want a Christian nation/state? Is that really liberty for all? If Christians believe they have the one and only "truth", how can others trust them in positions of power? Do you think Ron Paul's beliefs may be closer to Jefferson's or Washington's when it comes to spiritual matters?
same old broken record fedor
same old broken record fedor with nothing to back it up.. just your UNeducated jump to conclusions opinions.
“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul
and dozens of quotes from the Founders of the US
:)
you fedor.... don't have a
you fedor.... don't have a clue. were you there? did you actually hear it come from their mouths? or do you get all your information from some idiot who has an axe to grind because he does not believe?
“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul
yeah, all these personal letters were
created to get those darn Christians. Pathetic.
Jefferson believed in God
Have you read "Common Sense," by Thomas Paine? It is only 46 pages long and well worth the read. Paine wrote how God, liberty, and natural rights were all intertwined....government tyranny did not mix with these. "Common Sense" was very popular...second only to the Bible. If this 46 page pamphlet wouldn't have been written we would still be under British rule.
Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine were close friends. While the Constitution was being drafted, Thomas Paine spent a lot of time with Jefferson while he was serving as the Minister to France. I always see non-Christians use Jefferson as the basis of their arguments....Jefferson believed in God. He was a Deist, not an Atheist. Jefferson thought that religion should not be dictated at the national government level as it was in Great Britain or France, but felt strongly about the importance of a society based on religion as he knew a country without morals will cease be a country. Jefferson being a non-believer can not be farther from the truth and believed religion was very important to society...not determined by the federal government.
The school curriculum of Early America was based from the teachings of the Bible...Noah Webster's horn books were widely adopted throughout the colonies and Bible based teaching was still a part of the American school curriculum up until the Civil War when Lincoln created government schools...normal schools as they were called at that time. (Literacy rates in America were much higher then than today too...so much for government schools.)
Listen..I am not a radical Christian, I do not even belong to any church and my wife is Buddhist. My basis for this argument is American history...America is predominantly Christian and always has been. I know that if we can use some of the genius of Thomas Paine in this revolution, we will have America back and she will will return to the state of individual freedoms and liberty in which this nation was founded. "Common Sense" was written more than 2 centuries ago...switch the players Paine's book and it still is just as meaningful today.
start here and learn something
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html#Jefferson
HAHAHA.. you actually believe
HAHAHA.. you actually believe this JIVE....
“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul
Sorry buddy,
Christians didn't get to re-write the letters of these great men. These are their own words. This is not a Christian Nation.
sorry buddy, I will agree
sorry buddy, I will agree this is not a Christian nation at this time. Our Constitution and bill of rights were founded on Judao Christian Morals and values. Quit taking your viagara fedor.. put it back in your pants. This broken record crybaby, crusade you are on just doesn't hold water. There are much more important issues right now to discuss.. One of them is how you are going to eat and survive in the next 3 or 4 years when this whole system totally collapses and the Christian values and morals which make up most of our laws are gone and you are left on your own to survive.
You are going to get your wish..
“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul
This country is going to be fine
and the sooner we get rid of the "Christian" values, the better. How about just "values". You know, a way of acting that is not "Christian"? You do realize people that aren't Christian can have values, don't you? I hope so, because many of our Founders were not Christians no matter how bad you want them to be :)
Wrong again. Here is some more Paine for you.
Thomas Paine was the "firebrand of the American Revolution." His writings brought courage in times of crisis. The first was in January 1776. At that time the colonies were still split on the question of declaring their independence from Great Britain. Some instructed their delegates in the Continental Congress to act against separation from the mother country. Thousands of colonists were undecided. On January 10 Paine published a pamphlet, 'Common Sense'. To rally the faltering he wrote: "Freedom has been hunted around the globe. Asia and Africa have expelled her . . . and England has given her warning to depart. O, receive the fugitive and prepare in time an asylum for mankind!" Colonists up and down the seaboard read this stirring call to action. George Washington himself said it turned doubt into decision--for independence.
As a young man he sailed to America from England, carrying letters of introduction from Benjamin Franklin, whom he had met in London. Franklin recommended him for the "genius in his eyes." Franklin's letters got him the post of assistant editor of the new Pennsylvania Magazine in Philadelphia. One of his essays denounced slavery in the colonies.
In England he published 'Rights of Man' in 1791, in support of the French Revolution. Today the book seems moderate, but it so stirred Britain that he was indicted for treason. He fled to France and was elected to the National Convention. There he opposed the execution of Louis XVI. His humanitarian stand won him the ill will of the Jacobins, and he escaped the guillotine only through the fall of Maximilien Robespierre. After ten months in prison he was released and aided by James Monroe, then United States ambassador to France and later U.S. president.
.
---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe
Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
.
"The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.''
.
"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."
.
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
.
"What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
.
"Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies."
.
"We do not admit the authority of the church with respect to its pretended infallibility, its manufactured miracles, its setting itself up to forgive sins. It was by propagating that belief and supporting it with fire that she kept up her temporal power."
.
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
.
"The story of Jesus Christ appearing after he was dead is the story of an apparition, such as timid imaginations can always create in vision, and credulity believe. Stories of this kind had been told of the assassination of Julius Caesar."
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
.
"The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion."
-More of Thomas Paine's writings Online
Here is Jefferson. Time for you to do a little research.
you've been lied to.
Thomas Jefferson The third president of the United States was Thomas Jefferson. He had been the author of the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. In an age of great men Jefferson was remarkable for his wide-ranging curiosity on many subjects. He helped the United States get started, and his plans for the future helped it grow. Many of the good things Americans enjoy today have come from Jefferson's devotion to human rights.
Jefferson is often called the founder of the Democratic party. Many other groups also claim to follow his principles. He developed the theory of states' rights, which was against giving much authority to the federal government. He is known to everyone as the author of the ringing statement in the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal, that among their inalienable rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. His writings have stood as a torch to the defenders of individual freedom, in spiritual as well as in worldly affairs. .
---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe
Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
.
"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."
- to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814
.
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"
.
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
- letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787
.
"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests."
- to John Adams, 1803
.
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
.
"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
- to Carey, 1816
.
"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself."
-in his private journal, Feb. 1800
.
It's a simple multiple choice - A, B or C!
Maybe you need to call in some back-up for this one? Didn't mean to make it so difficult!
I must say your display of confusion has gotten to be quiet amusing! Especially after you check mated yourself in the post below. Why don't you apply to be a campaign strategist for the CFL.
and you
answered none of my questions. This thread is a joke. I'll make it real simple. No, it's not a good idea to suggest "Christians" help govern this country. A group that can't even govern it's own faith. Perhaps Christians should stick to the spiritual and not repeat their mistakes of the past. Mistakes that killed lots of good people. If some Christians can understand why we need a Republic, a country based on laws and a secular government, than perhaps we can move forward. This idea is not attractive to many, many christians in the GOP, a group that is attacking Ron Paul and the Constitution. These individuals are "Christians", obviously. So your premise is flawed.
I can
only marvel at how effectively some of you ignore reality. The GOP is full of millions of Christians that support the neo cons and support the attacks on Ron Paul. These are "Christians". They wear their crosses like little badges. There is NO doubt. Christianity is what has brought this group together. They are our greatest enemy (GOP neo con Christians). They will now start a campaign to demonize Ron Paul and you. With their influence and money, they will cast their attacks far and wide. Attacks on our chance for real liberty. It's already starting. Yet, you ignore this and pretend there are all sorts of good little Christians waiting to re-take the US with Constitutionalists. This situation is very, very sad.
Attacking people in not Christ-like
You're a tomato. There, I called you a tomato. Does that make you a fruit?
You declaring who is and isn't Christian holds about the same weight as me declaring you a tomato. The people calling to attack anyone are not acting in a Christ-like fashion. Christ told people that there was one signifigant sign that those who believed in Him and chose to follow Him would be able to recognize who His followers were and are; by the love that they showed for other people.
You claim to be a Christian. Where's your love for people, especially those who you disagree with?
The GOP
is full of Christians and they wear it on their sleeves like clowns. They use their church networks to motivate voters and they use Christianity. That is a FACT. Wake up and deal with it. Hiding your head in the sand will not save liberty.
the dems claim to be
the dems claim to be Christians also.. what is your point? Clinton claimed to be a Christian.
“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul
Your words indicate clearly that you don't know the difference..
...between those calling themselves christian and those who are Christians.
I'm a tomato. Does that make me a red vine borne fruit? I think not.
The problem that people seeking liberty face has it's solution in education. And that education is that liberty, like Christian salvation, is for individuals and not groups.
Sorry fella,
That is your personal way of dealing with the FACT that many Christians want a Christian state/nation and have no intention of supporting liberty for all. These individuals are Christians whether you like it or not. The GOP is full of them. Avoiding this obvious problem is YOUR personal problem. So when someone suggests that "Christians" should take control of the US, don't be surprised when intelligent individuals disagree. Christians can't even govern their own faith. Suggesting they help govern a country is laughable and dangerous. History reveals why.
You're right. You are sorry.
And because you are sorry I will pray for you.
don't "pray" for me
just you saying that makes me sick. You don't know Jesus. You know you and you want all of us to know you and what story you have chosen to believe in. That sucks.
how do you know what he knows
how do you know what he knows or does not? You tell us Christians not to judge, what did you just do?
“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul
judge?
I told him not to "pray" for me. It makes me sick.
You are right!
I believe that evangelicals (and I am one!) need to understand that liberty protects us as well.
Sandy
Sandy Sanders
www.varight.com