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Constitutionalists and Christians have much in common! By joining forces they could quickly regain control of the U.S.!

There is no doubt that Christianity and individual liberty were the primary philosophies that formed this nation and its constitution.

With 76% percent, or 228 million Americans claiming to be Christians, both movements would do well to recognize the overwhelming, unprecedented and unstoppable political power that would result if these natural allies would once again join forces.

I say it's not just coincidence that Mr. Liberty himself is a Christian. Without uttering a word, what an example this man can set!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jRO3hptL4U
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions



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Not so generally

"People believe what the want to, but the fact remains, the liberty movement could greatly benefit from an alliance with the Christian Community.

That is not the case in general. If the two sides can agree on concessions that you may be correct but their agendas can be mutually exclusive.

Have their been oppressive Christian governments in the past? Was GWB a Christian? Christianity will flurish in an individualist society but individualist can not survive in forced christian society it is impossible

I apologize for voting for a professed Christian---

who does NOT live by the principles that Y'shua's life exemplifies. I was not as wise as I am now. Christian properly means: followers of the Christ (or more radically, little Christs--in Luther's sense, not Osteen's and others)

A forced 'Christian' society may be possible nominally, (in name only) but Y'shua (Jesus) himself stated: "My Kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my disciples would have fought to free Me." The Kingdom of God was not intended to be spread by force, but by sharing the Word of God, miracles, and the Power of God to change sinful hearts (which is a fruit of the greatest miracle in history: the Resurrection of Y'shua the Messiah).

Mahatma Gandhi understood this. He said, "A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others,including his enemies, and became the ransom of the world. It was a perfect act." and "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

He's right. As a professed 'Christian' myself, I see my own failure clearly. I pray for grace and that I will listen and obey when I hear Him speak to me through the Word of God. To let his life be an example, not just to emulate, but to follow.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Fact!

No matter how we "feel" about it,We need the numbers NOW!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

i would rather throw away my vote

Then throw away my principles.

Like I said, there needs to reasonable discussion about this and possibly concessions made.
Liberty under a Christian government and Christianity under a libertarian government are two different things.

AMC You are right

The difference needs to be agreed on.and soon!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Since the majority of American sheep

are Christian, i would love to know where the enlightened Christians are hiding.

Good luck on your quest if it brings about a restoration of the Constitution.

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

A few are around...

there are quite a few here on DP however. Of course, Ron Paul himself would certainly qualify! ;)

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Apparently you all don't count, Libera_me.

Ralph Waldo has a hidden stash somewhere.

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

I am offened

I am offened

offened?

Is that what you get from listening to too much Lawrence Welk? (i.e., too much Joe Feeney = Oh Feeneyed)

I think it was a mistype, farmer.

I think he meant to type "D" instead of "F".

(Oddened was the Norse God of fertilizer)

Refreshing to know we have an actual deity on a religion thread.

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

Read and weep

That's just more atheist history revisions

read down a few posts where "Ralph Waldo" explains it.

over 1/3rd of the writings of the founders are direct quotes from the bible.

____

"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

Once again...

a thread that proves the necessity of a secular government.

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

Exactly what are you

Exactly what are you proposing that people do?
What does "joining forces" mean in practice?

Given the demographics in the US, it is a virtual certainty that the Liberty movement has many Christians. So in that sense, Christians and libertarians have already "joined forces." But quite a few Christians, Dr. Paul included, follow the admonition that Jesus gave not to make a public show of ones religion.

Matthew 6:1-34

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

“Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Mathew 6:5-6
“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

who said anything in this

who said anything in this post about Christians making a public show of one religion.

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

Recognize the common principles of constituional freedom then

help vote people into office who understand the importance of following the constitution! Look at the numbers. 76% of the population claims to be Christian. Last time I checked we could use all the help we could get!

51 out of 55 of the delegates to the Constituional Convention

were Christians.

It's not necessary to dig through the diaries, however, to determine which faith was the Founder's guiding light. There's an easier way to settle the issue.

The phrase "Founding Fathers" is a proper noun. It refers to a specific group of men, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention. There were other important players not in attendance, like Jefferson, whose thinking deeply influenced the shaping of our nation. These 55 Founding Fathers, though, made up the core.

The denominational affiliations of these men were a matter of public record. Among the delegates were 28 Episcopalians, 8 Presbyterians, 7 Congregationalists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Dutch Reformed, 2 Methodists, 2 Roman Catholics, 1 unknown, and only 3 deists--Williamson, Wilson, and Franklin--this at a time when church membership entailed a sworn public confession of biblical faith.[1]

This is a revealing tally. It shows that the members of the Constitutional Convention, the most influential group of men shaping the political foundations of our nation, were almost all Christians, 51 of 55--a full 93%. Indeed, 70% were Calvinists (the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and the Dutch Reformed), considered by some to be the most extreme and dogmatic form of Christianity.

I love Greg Koukl

But you can site secondary and tertiary sources when discussing people's beliefs.
All the founders where influenced by Christianity because most of the colleges had Christian education. To say they where not influenced by Christianity is just silly.
Christianity was different then. You can find many sources that believe less than 5% of the population went to Church.
They lived in a time when faith was personal and biased largely on reason. We live in a time of mega churches and faith that is based on emotion and experience.
I agree most founders where Christian, but not the same Christian of today. They could have easily created a Christian nation but REFUSED every time the discussion was brought up, and it was brought up. They even discussed bible teaching in schools, but that too was rejected.
The believed in an objective, no coercive personal faith and existence. The teaching of Jesus agree 100% with this line of reasoning.

While, technically, many of these men were Christian,

they were also intelligent men who were influenced by the Enlightenment. It would be presumptuous to know what was in the minds and hearts of the members of the Continental Congress, however I doubt seriously you could compare them to Christians today.

What I do know is that many of these "Christians" signed a declaration, which put their lives, families, and property at risk, that used the terms "Laws of Nature" and "Nature's God". These are not Christian ideas and yet the men signed anyway under penalty of death. Either they weren't as Christian as some would like to believe or they were totally ignorant of the term "Nature's God". Since most/all of these men would have read "The Age of Reason", I find the latter difficult to believe.

My point being, this wouldn't be an issue if some Americans didn't insist on calling America "a Christian nation". This fallacy breeds "exceptionalism" which leads us right to the neo-cons.

If it was important enough for America to be a Christian nation, it would have been clearly spelled out in the founding documents.

I support the 10th Amendment on this and am ready to join any state that declares Pastafarianism as their state religion.

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

no state or the federal

no state or the federal government should declare any religion.

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

Can you find this

Link again for the facts of this post about the breakdown of faiths,would love to have it for Fedor and myself!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Thanks! Fedor come read with me!

For rebuttal?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

This only shows

that the key players were not Religious,and does not prove that anymore than three of these key players were Deists,What about the rest?It does not explain this?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

what people do not understand

what people do not understand is that you can be a Christian and not be religious.

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

Rebelsoul

I understand what you are saying,A person can have Christian values without knocking down doors with a bible in their hand and a finger at your nose?
This is probably the only thing that held the old west together,A few moral values.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Ralph !

Absolutely fantastic research! And all of these nine or so different Faiths had different individual ideas of freedom and liberty,yet came together !

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Once again, you boys leave out the FACT

that many of the founders followed Deism. So sad.