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Red Light Ticket in CA - Advice?

Hi all,

I know others have posted about fighting tickets on here and wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on mine. Last night on the way home from work I pulled up to a red light that I always pull up to and "rolled through" the red light. It's legal to take a right turn on red in CA but I technically did not come to a full stop. Unfortunately I didn't notice the tax feeder / cop sitting next to me as I did it, and he proceeded to pull me over. He asked me if I knew why he pulled me over, I said "yes, I didn't come to a complete stop back there" . This may have been a mistake, but I was trying to play nice in hopes he might let me off. But by the time I handed him my registration he wasted no time getting back to his car to write the ticket.

Now this is the part I'm not sure of. I've read before about not signing the ticket, so I asked him if I had to sign it. He said "it's not an admission of guilt, you just have to sign it to acknowledge you got the ticket. You're still presumed innocent in a court of law". To then said "what if I don't sign it", and he said "then I take you to jail.". What I'm not sure of is whether what he told me is true or legal. Can he really take me to jail for not signing a ticket? Under what pretense? I was in a rush to get somewhere and at that point I just said screw it, signed it, and took the ticket.

Just wondering if anyone has ideas on what grounds I might be able to fight the ticket. Can I at all use the "I will take you to jail" threat in my defense? I have every intention of going and pleading 'not guilty' but I'm not too sure of how to proceed from there. If I do nothing else than inconvenience a police officer and make him come to court than so be it. I have to appear on March 3rd and I will am about to leave the country for a month, so I won't have much time to prepare when I get back.

Any advice would be appreciated, this puppies run about $500 out here and that's a kick in the gut on my budget.

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I do agree with the post

I do agree with the post below about educating yourself for the next time, it's extremely important to take the right steps from the beginning.

However it's not to late. Myself and a colleague of mine have been studying law, especially due process for quite some time now.

I will pull up my posting from the other day so you can read it and if you are interested you can contact me through the e-mail in that post.

Furthermore, when you go to court there has to be a prosecutor/plaintiff there. The judge nor the cop can stand in for them. They get away with that every day here in VA. But if you call them of it they have to call a mistrial.

500 DOLLARS???????

This is certainly a case of the punishmment not fitting the crime, which makes the punishment a crime in itself.

Don't know about the not signing the ticket issue (a lawyer could answer that) but presumanbly the fine will be drastically reduced by you going to court.

I fought one of these (and won) years ago by saying a passenger in my car had diabetes and was experiencing a seizure so I hurried through the light.

Perhaps a similar medical-type of explaination could help your cause-especially if your move was not really dangerous.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Try Mr. Ticket

I know a few people who have used "Mr. Ticket" in San Diego to get out red light tickets. It costs about $500, but you avoid traffic school. (It still costs you, but at least it doesn't go to the gov't). I think you can also find Mr Ticket in San Francisco and other metropolitan areas. Use google to find the nearest one.


the instrument carefully. If there are any errors, you can refuse the instrument within 3 days. Usually they spell your name with all cap letters, but that is not you. Your name is not spelled that way, that is the name of the SSA created trust in which you are the trustee.

I'd just pay the ticket, then educate yourself for the next one. Understand, you are a licensed driver driving a licensed car, which means you have voluntarily subjected yourself to their corporate jurisdiction. I learned a lot at teamlaw

Whatever options are stated on the instrument

they never tell you about the other option, which is "none of the above." Read it very, very carefully. See if anywhere on it it says "notice." It is in fact most likely an offer to you to pay. And if there is info in the Calif. statues about ticket monies being for revenue, it makes it fraud. (Unauthorized tax collectors, etc. I believe.)

The CHP issued the instrument and is responsible for it. My understanding is that you can send a conditional offer to pay to the specific officer .. . or mark the ticket "refused for fraud" and send it back. There is indeed a lot of info on various threads here about this and you need to thoroughly understand what you are doing or get a coach, which would be less $$ than what you described, plus you would learn a lot.

I have only ever had to deal with a "parking violation" notice; they went silent after a series of three back and forth notices. Silence is acquiescence.

Phil. 4:13

Fight your ticket

go to Geo. McCalip's site:


for dealing with california tickets.

They go thru all the steps to preserve your right to a speedy trial.

Trial by Declaration means the tax feeder doesn't get paid overtime to go to court.

If you lose, you can get a new trial and plead traffic school if the cop shows up.

If everyone fights their tickets fully, the courts will grind to a stop, and cities will stop using traffic laws for revenue.

Your post is off topic.

Go to the back of the line.

I was only joking.


What's Your Objective?

You can opt for traffic school online and keep it off your record.

I stopped speeding after taking a physics class. When I did the math, I decided it was a mistake to act as if the laws of physics can be broken.

As for the rolling stops, I always obey the little laws because I don't want to pay the price if I'm caught or if I'm liable for an accident.

If I'm going to break the law, it'll be something worth doing, like refusal to pay the IRS, turn over my gold, let the city take my property, etc. It would be worth standing up for those rights.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

He asked me if I knew why he

He asked me if I knew why he pulled me over, I said "yes, I didn't come to a complete stop back there"

You made a confession... so I'm pretty sure you're screwed. Unless you he doesn't show up to the hearing.

I've had two encounters with the California Highway Patrol in my life. Both times I was speeding on the freeway. The first time I got busted, when asked whether I knew why I was pulled over, I said yes and admitted I was speeding-- Bam, 300$ Ticket. The second time I played dumb, said no (which was the truth, I'm not a mind reader), and replied I was unsure of my speed when I was questioned about it further-- the cop was much angrier, but he didn't give me a ticket.

In short you should cooperate with the police, but never volunteer information you don't have to.

Good luck fighting your ticket.

And if you don't think you have enough time to adequately prepare a defence I'm pretty sure you can file for an extension with a judge; you should look into that.

yep, that was my first mistake

and as soon as I said it I thought to myself "wow, that was dumb, I just admitted guilt" but it's all I've got to work with at this point.

After some research it looks like I can plead not guilty by mail, and if found guilty I can requrest a new trial at court. So I think I'm going to plead not guilty, send it off, and worry about it when I get back from my month long vacation.

*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

What a shame-You were slammed for being honest.

Like in every pro sport (except golf, where you are expected to report youself for a rules violation).

Otherwise, athletes always claim innocence and let the referees or umpires have to decide.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Heh, yah...

having done it once myself I know what you mean... as soon as you say it you wish you could take it back.

At any rate, have fun on vacation, and good luck with you ticket.

I might be wrong?

But in Ca.it depends on the charge,If it was only an infraction the officer is not required to be present.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.


is what it says on the ticket anyway...

*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

Then the officer

does have to show up,Not just a fine there will be points on your license too.this will affect your insurance rates.In Az.the points are the same as a DUI,
6 points.I don't know what it would be in Ca.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Please don't

do this if you feel uncomfortable with it.
If it were me personally,I would arrange a meeting with the D.A.as soon as possible,you have a right to do this.
I would explain to him that you do not feel you ran a red light because you had the legal right to make a turn on the red.then explain that you feel the ticket should only have been an infraction for making a rolling stop.
Most DA's will respect the fact that you took the time out of your life to see them,and will usually give you the benefit of the doubt and lower the charge to the infraction.This saves them another court date and a lot of paper work because they think you are going to Plea Bargain with them anyways.I did this on a DUI charge and the DA. stuck up for me against the judge.
Heres a link.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Here are some strategies I

Here are some strategies I found on websites about beating tickets. I haven't tried some of it yet because I just got my ticket (holding my cel phone in my hand while on the steering wheel -using speaker phone) and I'm researching how to deal with it.

Change the court venue to the "county seat" if this will place the venue far enough from where the officer is located that they might not want to go out that far.

get as many extensions as you can and arrange the time for the opposite shift from when you got the ticket (nights, days, weekends, if available) so the officer does not want to work on his offtime.

fight the ticket by mail. Supposedly even if you lose, by this method you are allowed to appeal it a second time in the court.


Find everyway you can to delay the court date...Chances are..bout the 2nd or 3rd time..the cop will be fed up and wont show...You walk...

I believe in Hope & Change..I Hope the government will Change
Spindale-Rutherford County-North Carolina

Show up...

Show up for the court date and hope the officer isn't there.

If that doesn't work I'd just pay it and go get some ice cream or go for a walk on the beach or something.

Or you could try the "your flag has a gold fringe around it which means you are a UCC court and have no authority to fine me for traffic violations" which I doubt would work but some people say it did one time in in Bald Knob, Arkansas in the 1980's supposedly.. or something like that.

Good luck! :)

~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I don't know

Texas has no laws authorizing police stopping private vehicles whatsoever. Transportation as defined in the Texas Government Code (and the name in the Texas Department of Transportation) is conducting or engaging in commerce on the highways. There is tons of case law in which the findings were to the effect that there were no violations for driving without a license to operate a private non commercial vehicle as it is not a crime. We have a learners permit, a temporary license an occupational license and a commercial license. Right to travel in your private vehicle on a roadway paid for with your taxes is a sovereign right, not a privilege awarded by any state. Everything traffic enforcement is geared toward conducting commerce on the highways. There are multiple laws for certifications and annual renewals for cops in the Texas Administrative Code for commercial traffic law enforcement. The speed sign laws are prima facia (prudent and reasonable) and they are also geared toward commercial traffic. Daisey Chain in the registration provisions, the inspections and insurance and the state has some explaining to do. It is a scam The Privacy Act of 1974 forbids any entity from denying a person in any right, benefit or privilege for NOT have a social security number..And the plot thickens. Stand up for your Constitutional Rights, I challenge you to challenge the DMV where you live to send you the laws forcing you to acquiesce to their state privilege in licensing a right to travel and you'll get back approximately 15 pages of no comment wanna bet ? Sue their ass for violating your Constitutional right to travel and see what happens. They cannot win.

Just one last kick in the nuts, then a final deathblow


My problem is I have so much other cool stuff I'd rather be doing. :|

~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

The problem is...

...he's driving around a vehicle owned by the Gov't and is contracted as a Gov't employee through licensing and registration. So, by law, he must obey all the corporate codes and statutes that apply.

Then I'd say

Pay the ticket and get on with life. There's no way around that bad boy. If it were his own PRIVATE CAR/TRUCK and he was using it for anything other than commerce at the time, they don't have much to fall back on. This is a truth nationwide.

Just one last kick in the nuts, then a final deathblow

This won't help you, but it will bump it at least

Maybe someone else will have more useful information. I am going to point out the virtues of obeying every law to the very best of your ability. Oh, there is really only one virtue. It prevents having to talk to cops.
Now, having said that, if I were in your situation I would ask to be able to face the victim of my crime, but I would have an attorney or knowledgeable friend help me.

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.


I do normally try to avoid situations where I will have to talk to cops of course, but was just being careless on a day when my mind was all over the place.

I do wonder whether he noticed my "Don't Steal - The Government Hates Competition" bumper sticker.

*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*