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I need advice from my new DP family

O.K. let me set the scene, I just found out that my Daughter and son in law are getting separated and planning to file for a divorce. It appears that at the same time they have landed in enough financial trouble to also file for bankruptcy. My son in law has been out of work for over a year because he didn't listen and got a DUI and is now no longer looking for work at all. My Daughter is getting by paycheck to paycheck, I cannot help at this time because the closing of my Ca. store is going to break me it looks like. They have two wonderful children, my grand kids of course. They have agreed on everything except should they file Bankruptcy first or Divorce first?

This is what I could use a hand with, my Beautiful wife and I have been married for 25 years and have not been through this.

Bankruptcy then Divorce?

Or

Divorce then Bankruptcy?

I have to be partial and ask what is best for my Daughter and my grand kids?
You will notice I said "Advice" please, I will not hold anyone to it if it turns out wrong, I just have never been through this and have no where to start.



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File bankruptcy first.

I would recommend filing bankruptcy first. They would probably qualify for Chapter 7 (while they are still married) which would wipe out all of their debt, including credit cards. At least they would be completely debt free. Considering your son-in-law has not been working for a year, they would probably easily qualify based on income alone. Chapter 13 will leave them with credit card debts etc. The process costs approximately $1,500 +/- to pay for the bankruptcy attorney. Best of luck to you and your family.

Since you asked, my suggestion for your daughter is that she not

marry again, since marrying made her eligible for this divorce she's getting. So this is where marriage has landed her? In divorce court. She needs a divorce not b/c of adultery, or financial problems, or addiction or irreconcilable differences, it's b/c she's married & she needs the marriage to end.

I'm sorry she didn't realize when she married that it was not a religious ceremony but nothing more than a legal contract/ covenant she was getting into w/ a man disguised as a religious ceremony so they wouldn't consider the relationship or ceremony at that level. She's not going to the church to get a divorce is she, but to the courthouse. When the court has nothing to do w/ her marriage in the 1st place! The only people that ought to be going to the courthouse for a divorce are those that got married there in the 1st place. Sounds like her minister, at the very least, married her under false pretenses. She's not wearing a bridal gown to the divorce attorney's, she's wearing blue jeans or business attire -- to attend to the business of divorce, to attend to the business of ending a marriage.

I don't know why people think they are better off in marriage, you can live together whether you're married or not, so it must be public opinion they're concerned about.

Hopefully, the divorce they get won't ruin their relationship. Hopefully, she'll be able to find some kind of amicable arrangements for their dad to see his kids, shamefully, most married couples don't continue to live in the same house so their kids can grow up w/ 2 parents & decide just b/c they don't want to live together, that the kids won't see mommy & daddy everyday & thus grow up w/ mommy & daddy.

Purely from this prospective, I say bankruptcy 1st, then divorce, but I would research to see what's best for the pocketbooks. Maybe they won't feel the need to get divorced, but can manage to stay under the same roof until the kids are older. It would certainly mean that they'd have $ to spare, say, for college or whatever. I don't know why people don't live together just b/c they're divorced. If I am foolish enough to get married, for whatever reason I see as beneficial to me, I plan to head to a divorce lawyer's right afterwards & get it over with.

Imagine going through your whole life having your spouse refer to you as my husband/ my wife, your legal title, not your 1st name, then your title, just your title. As if that's all you are is some contractual agreement. Nowhere in the marriage vows does it say you can get a divorce, all these things you're entitled to from a marriage such as child support/ alimony, they must be in the definitions of husband & wifes which I have not been able to find. Please remember, unfortunately, the law sees girlfriend/ fiancee'/ wife/ ex-wife as different people when in fact they are the same. 4 different titles for the same person, hence the term entitlement.

Anybody know what the definition of a husband/ wife is? The 1 thing I do know is you cannot volunteer to be somebody's husband/ wife, they must take you as such. Explain marriage to me anyway, I mean, the state has no laws against religion, which it ought not to, so the state can't define the religion's marriage. The state can't state which religions can exist in their state & which marriages it performs. What's to keep a religion for marrying someone for only an hour, so the marriage ends by the time you get home? The state can't dictate that religion's definition of marriage anyway, so what is marriage?

One parting note, the divorce rate in this country is over 50% & 60% of the world's marriages are arranged, just an aside. There's nothing wrong w/ arranged marriages as far as I'm concerned, the people that get involved in them aren't sinning & when you marry someone it doesn't mean you love them, it means you pledge to love them, there's a difference. That doesn't mean there's a problem w/ divorce when the rate is that high, it means there's a problem w/ marriage, despite people's desperate & expensive attempts to save it! This message is brought to you as a public service.
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Thank God for bugs, they're company for people in solitary confinement.

For some reason, we're expected to know every law that exists in America & in our state so we don't break it. We're supposed to know this when we're 18. There's no litmus test for them, as in the 10 commandments or rhyme or reason. C.U.R.E.

Really

This is a specific question relating to each piece of debt. If they can, I'd say go through a debt management program where all the bills are consolidated. It would provide an easier picture at least.

Sorry to hear you're going through this. If it's any consolation, my parents were divorced when I was 3, and I turned out just fine. Loving grandparents were a huge part of that equation. I'm 23 and own my own company at this stage, in no small part due to what my grandfather and grandmother taught me early on. You're doing the right thing by helping, but I would seriously see an attorney. You aren't in the Atlanta area by any chance are you? My brother in law is a bankruptcy attorney, and I trust him.

Eric Hoffer

Thanks Eric

But we are in Az.They did consolidate so it is only the consolidation and the car that got repoed,not too bad it is just the question of which one first?Divorce or Bankruptcy.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

sorry

sorry, no advice from me... just well wishes for all.

Thank you

for responding in repect.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I wish I had wisdom on this...

All I can say is bless you for wanting to help out your daughter. I am in the exact same situation as your daughter...I am looking to divorce my husband, but our financial situation is severe and I am having a hard time deciding how to get through this situation. You are welcome to email me if you think that my personal experience might be of some help...but because of my own issues, I don't think I can disclose my plans on this blog.

I originally asked you whether the marriage could be saved...but I just read what you wrote and I unfortunately believe she is doing the right thing. If he wants to get help for his issues with violence, fine, but I personally would not want to stay around if my life were being threatened.

One thing I have learned from my problems...I was foolish to allow so many of my finances to be entwined with my husband's. I was foolish to not have money in a separate bank account. I DON'T CARE what all you idealists have to say about women who stay home with their children and how great that is, the bottom line is that such women are vulnerable! I will NOT advise my daughters to combine finances with their husbands once they are married. They should have separate bank accounts. Let the husband go to them and ASK for money needed to pay bills. This was the stupidest thing I could have done, and now I am paying the price for it.

Whatever happens, I wish you and your family the best.

Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.

Okay, I didn't really answer your question...

Here's what I would do. I would consult an attorney. Your daughter feels threatened; personally, I believe her personal safety is more important than her financial situation. Perhaps she could file separately for bankruptcy at the same time as she gets the divorce. I just can't believe this situation is so unique, especially given these economic conditions...so there must be a lawyer out there who has intelligent advice for you. I can't imagine trying to work out financial problems and fearing for my safety at the same time.

BTW, violence is not the reason I am looking to divorce. Thank God that is not my issue.

Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.

Amica

I would like to email you if it is OK,Maybe we can support each other if needed?Thanks

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

ATruepatriot...

I'm not sure what help I can give, but please do email me. You're new here, but yes, this place *is* a family of sorts...the support and friendship I have found here is nothing less than tremendous. One thing, though...I am about to go to sleep. So see you tomorrow :)

Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.

I just tried to

so let me know when you can,have a good evening,and if you didn't get it I will try again tomorrow and ask you again first.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

For all your help so far

I need to thank you all,please continue,But to be fair in your advice they are not going to reconcile,My son in law tried to kill my daughter with a kitchen knife,not going to happen.He has a little bipolar disorder that he refuses to deal with,To bad he's a nice guy.
I think Will hit on something,the banks are only going to go after the money and not care from what source.
Do you agree?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I would suggest bankruptcy first, and then....

maybe some mental help for the son-in-law next, then maybe divorce. People are people, and we all have issues, there is still hope that your son-in-law can be helped with his mental issues, whether it be with counseling, or meds, one thing for sure children are the ones who suffer when divorce happens, remind yourself of that please.

Trust me Tessie

it is ALL about the grand kids,We have tried to get him help for about two years,I love the guy,but he refuses because he says there is nothing wrong,he is now court ordered after the incident,and they are still not gaining any ground with him.
He first needs to accept the fact he has a problem and it doesn't look like this is going to happen anytime soon.
I have pleaded to him for the kids futures,and I am now at a loss this is the only way,he can be a good father from a distance.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

BMWJIM's picture

My friend this will be hard but, I

would sit with my daughter(mine just getting married) and son-in-law, together and look at everything. Don't look at one side or the other. Look at what is best for the grand kids. It does not mean the parents cant be separated but financially they can not at this point be apart.

If the son-in-law doesn't want to work or be involved then you may have no choice but to encourage your daughter to go for the divorce, In our state it is community property and no matter if the husband is working or not he has to pay half and support the children.

I sympathise with you and hope I never have to go through it. I can send my prayers your way and hope everything works out.
Bless you my Brother. I will have you in my prayers.

Jim

1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

I'm not an expert

Wouldn't it be possible, if they got the divorce first, for your son-in-law to hit your daughter with the majority of the debt because she's the sole wage earner?

I'd say bankruptcy then divorce. Or even better, bankruptcy and counseling.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I will say if the scenario is as grim as you state...

they should file for bankruptcy first, and get all the financial crap behind them, and then file for divorce. By the time the financial crap is behind them, they might see that their marriage without all the financial bondage might be a better place to be, and might reconcile, if not for themselves, for their children, who deserve to have both parents, and maybe, a better family life, just my opinion, that is coming from someone who has been married 3 times, and has gone through bankruptcy. I have lived it, and have experience on this, just passing it on.

They should look for a lawyer

that does divorces and bankruptcies and get a twofer, save money. Good luck, these are tough times to bad they couldn't work out their problems.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

Tell them you love them then ---------

Stay out of their business completely and let them solve their own problems. Everyone will be better off if you do this.

It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people that pay no price for being wrong.
Thomas Sowell

Thank you Hydro

but they will not let us,although I agree with you it WILL cost me in the end,I have a little problem,I love them.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Ya, I gotta say, that's some sound advice...

...it really is

They made mistakes

because they did not listen,they have realized this and are now asking for our help,If we give them the wrong advice now?They are now willing to listen.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

If it's combined debt, then bankruptcy first

If it's individual debt then divorce first. I'm thinking if they got themselves in the mess together, they should get out of it together. Thanks for not holding me to this, I'm just giving my 2 cents.

Yes MikeLawson

It is combined debt and that's what I was thinking also,but my daughter talked to a friend that just went through this and she said different.that's why I was asking here.I think her friend wanted to stick her husband with it all.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I am female...

but I will tell you there are some women in this world that really hate men, and should never get married. I highly suggest they do the bankruptcy first, and then let a few months go by, and see if their relationship mends before they go towards divorce. Financial hardship is difficult, and can tear up a relationship, people do not think clearly, and make multiple mistakes if they have other issues to deal with. If children are involved it makes it that much worse.

Perhaps there's a family lawyer on the DP who will give you info

but IMO, ATrue, you should RUN, NOT WALK to find a highly-respected family lawyer and have at least a consultation. These things get ugly so fast your head will spin.
I would hate to see your daughter and grandkids suffer like some of my loved ones have who tried to go the amicable route in good faith without counsel.
God Bless.

I agree Lao thank you

But we are all tapped for awhile,it can be done with out an attorney but the decision has to be made in which order.Az. is really good about both situations on a budget.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.