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Did Campaign For Liberty Give $350,000 to a Neocon?

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I don't usually post here, but I am a regular participant at Ron Paul Forums, as well as being relatively active in real life too.

Having said that, I wanted to point out something that has the other forums all a-buzz: It appears that Campaign For Liberty spent $350,000 on a media buy for a Colorado candidate named Ken Buck, who is endorsed by Michelle Malkin and supports the wars in the Middle East.

We're all over there going WTF?




should get you up to date.

We're looking to apply some pressure and we hope some of you will make phone calls to Virginia to make them explain what in the world they were thinking.

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Thinking that alot of this Colorado issue has gotten blown way out of hand. Rand Paul himself does not hold to the same standards on WAR that many of us do ... and yet the majority still accept and support him. Peter Schiff does not hold to the same standards of WAR and many still support him. I think that alot of states it will be very difficult to find someone to hold to all the standards. We need to get more electable people to run that hold to our standards, but in the meantime go with those who are very close in mindset.

Since you've only been here for 3 hours...

Perhaps you missed the big uproar around the time of some of Rand's controversial statements. Those who were upset for the most part went along with the call to settle down and give him a chance to clarify or retract or whatever.

Some of us are still waiting for that.

There has been a lot of speculation as to what he meant by his statement that he supports a declaration of war in Afghanistan.

Some think that he meant if war is going to be going on that it needs to be declared properly. Some think he would push for declaration so that support for the war would actually diminish. Many think he was just saying that as some secret ~strategy~ of playing the game to get elected.

The general consensus did not seem to be that he actually supported war in Afghanistan.

However, the person who can clarify what he meant has not done so that I know of. Perhaps it was a mistake to let the uproar die down because here we are still with no clarification, and if he did mean that he actually supports war in Afghanistan, then perhaps there is a double standard if he gets a free pass on that.

Still, C4L was not showering him with $350,000 praise ads, either, which is what this is about.

It is not blowing it out of proportion for people to be upset that they did an ad promoting someone who does not align with one of the stated missions and principles of nonintervention.

They aren't even supposed to be supporting candidates according to the statement at the bottom of the page on their website:

"Campaign for Liberty is a 501(c)4 lobbying organization which neither supports nor opposes candidates for public office..."

Hence the need apparently for them to try to pass this off as ~promoting surveys~.

C4L and Colorado's 350,000

I have been around more than three hours just have never commented in the years ... just observed . If the state is not joined with National then was it really Nationals money to dole out or the group within the state which would hold the money?

So your saying the state org is Neo-Con?

The C4L Logo is being used-C4L is like an RP seal of approval. Would RP approve? Not very likely.

At this point, the biggest issue is what amounts to stonewalling and treating the grassroots, that provided substantial seed money for the basic operation(millions), like step children w/ red hair. There are many reasonable questions coming from reasonable people with a full right to ask and expect answers. So far, the response and respect has been on par w/ what the GOV feeds us. Acceptable? Not nearly.

PS-Hope you understand, being around for years then registering 3 hours ago makes you 3 hours old w/ little track record. Same for all, same everywhere on the tubes. I was here around four months before registering/commenting, no big deal, just four less months of bona fide. One last thing, I am sure you understand folks noting your newness considering that you are speaking generally in defense on this matter.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

Advancing freedom requires

Advancing freedom requires herding one cat at a time. Libertarians have always had a wildly diverse range of issues, probably more so than Democrats and Republicans, which is why "we" may never be a force to be reckoned with unless each one of us is willing to give up just a little of our pet issues to advance liberty. Only then can "we" become a force to be reckoned with. Yes, I said force. Even if an issue you are willing to support has broad approval, it does not necessarily mean that your issue will ever take center stage unless you are willing to do a little compromising. Fact! Ron Paul has been marginalized for decades. Fact! Give some to get some. Might not be palatable to hardliners, but there's a time to join on some issues like freedom, even when the person or issue is not ideal.

Will you spend all of your valuable time fighting over fringe issues amongst each other, or are you personally willing to give a little to get a little. Remember, we're on the uptrend, the Republican party is on the downtrend, but there's still more of "them" vs. "us". Think about it because everyone depends on your individual involvement in the freedom movement.

I am not concerned with cats, I love cats especially unherdable

cats. That is individual freedom in action and is very resistant to aggregation of power to later visit abuse upon the cats. I am concerned about foxes in hen-houses always and in the C4L hen-house at this particular moment.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

When everyone is off doing

When everyone is off doing their own thing then is their net effect weaker or stronger than the "collective action" of the so-called opposition?

From what I've seen, it's literally impossible getting liberty-minded individuals together on enough issues at one time to have anything other than a feeble net effect, as much as it pains me to admit it.

Tate said it was a national initiative...

...and that it was funded by a small group of new C4L donors specifically for this project.

"This is C4L's first foray into launching this kind of national initiative..."

"The Colorado program was funded by a small number of Colorado activists. The funding for this program came ENTIRELY from this small group of new C4L donors."

"C4L...built new support and donations, especially within Colorado, specifically for this project. This is the approach we hope to take as we seek funding for many other special projects this year in other states."


As far as your question, I do not know if this funding from these Colorado ~activists~ went through the state C4L.

All I can say is this new small group of donors must consist of some VERY enthusiastic folks for them to want to cough up this exorbitant amount of money to ~promote surveys~. Downright amazing.

Even more amazing is that Tate also says, "...we WILL have similar programs in MANY other places soon".

That is right, few are against government intervention

For some of us using our industrial killing machine on the general populations of whole nations without any real proof of that population's guilt, is simply wrong.

The main medias and our own Pentagon have been pumping out war propogada. Fact check here: www.antiwar.com

I fear some want war so much that they will claim that there is no time to find anti-intervetnion candidates. Convenient?

As for me, I will not knowingly vote for someone that supported war and occupation in the Middle East or beyond.

Free includes debt-free!

Centralized donating is no

Centralized donating is no better then government. Give directly to individual candidates and you cant complain about someone else misappropriating your funds.

Voluntary donations make C4L different from government.

You are correct that any organization even churches and C4L can act as badly as we've seen government act. Or in my foulest moods I say. "Organizations are inherently evil."

I am free to support C4L with another donation or I can just leave without a care.

Government far too often threatens and coerces donations (taxes). A minority often suffers under the will of a majority that volunteers their donations and demand the minority join the giving. Perhaps even at a higher rate. But they are stealing if I don't volunteer.

Sound organizations must be free associations (right to assemble is not to be aided or denied by government). Sound Constitutional government has means to change management or change the Constitution.

It's the small differences that make freedom visible.

Free includes debt-free!

Ultimately I think you are

Ultimately I think you are right. As a matter of fact I always thought C4L was about education not endorsing and spending funds on candidates. Yet I could advocate donating to candidates through them if there was transparency. I would donate on my own but as you know there are always people who like to donate to groups and C4L can give more funds right?

Just an idea.

What if C4L only focused on Gubernatorial, Mayor, and Sherrif candidates? Stay focused on local elections, and try to get our states back at a more local level. The fact that C4L has not given Debra Medina any contributions is pathetic. When you have a chance to get a "Ron Paul type" as Govenor of Texas, you jump on it! Just thought I would throw this idea out for discussion.


This was just a few posts down on the very first link posted in the article here. NO C4L did NOT give a candidate 350k.

Good grief people. Do your own research and stop embarrassing yourselves.

"First, I think it is important to state up front that, in keeping with our 501(c)4 status, none of our work is in endorsement, support, or opposition for any candidate. In our survey program, we seek only to report where candidates stand in regard to the specific questions to which they have responded.

In retrospect, the ad we are running could have been messaged differently to help avoid any confusion on its intent and to better advertise our issue discussion program. Your invaluable feedback will help us correct this in the future and, as a result, strengthen the effectiveness of our program. This is C4L's first foray into launching this kind of national initiative, and we are convinced it has the potential to make a tremendous impact.

The candidate featured in the Colorado ad answered 19 out of 20 questions correctly on our C4L candidate survey, and he has been publicly outspoken on Audit the Fed and an out of control federal government. He also answered the Foreign Policy questions and warrantless search question on our survey correctly."

I understand that C4L did not

I understand that C4L did not GIVE $350k directly to Buck but C4L did spend it!
Don't patronize me by telling me my invaluable "feedback" will help you do better. I'll do you one better and say my invaluable "wallet" will be retracted from this organization till I see some pertinent questions answered. That survey means diddley squat when matched with what Buck actually purports on his website.
PUHLEAZE Rick don't treat us like morons. I want some transparency right NOW not promises of doing a better job in the future.

Well that's it then

Thanks for chastising and correcting us naive, mere mortal, little people. We will resume opening our wallets and shutting mouths and eyes. God we are an embarrassment. Hope we have not ticked off our brilliant and above reproach saviors of all that is good and right at C4L HQ. Do you think if we all bow and scrape enough they will deign to continue leading us ridiculous fools to the promised land with their near divine genius and wisdom??

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

High 5 gmason!! Can I take my

High 5 gmason!! Can I take my foot out of his a$$ now?

Not unless you were planning

on sending it immediately to another strategic locale.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

This incident makes me think

of a lithograph that has hung in my fathers house since before my birth. It is a picture of George Washington on horseback at Valley Forge handing a scroll of orders to a junior officer. As Washington hands the orders down, he cautions the officer to "Put none but Americans on guard tonight." The point being, at critical times with critical matters, great care must be taken to ensure those with critical functions are as pure in motivations and loyalties as possible.

We are a target. Many people are weak and easily corrupted. Many are involved with this movement that do not understand the full problem and what it will take for a complete solution. Many are among us specifically to subvert our efforts. Many are schooled in the "GAME" so all they know is how to play the "GAME". Many that are paid see this as just a job like any other in the "GAME", a job to be approached by the rules of the "GAME". Many...

There are many pitfalls and scoundrels in our way to accomplish what we have set out to accomplish, much care and caution is required for success.

We do not need swift victory-only ultimate victory. Efforts focused toward rapid success will repeatedly prove wasted and counterproductive. Our goals our simple, our message is simple and our target audience is people like us; non-players/anti-players.

One on one, one non-player awakening a slumbering non-player to what the players have been up to and the importance of ousting all the players from the system wherever found. We are a R3VOLution of the Non-Players rising up against the Players. As such, we obviously cannot tolerate Players among our ranks.

We cannot allow Players to be "On Guard" this night or any night.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

Yes they did.

Support dailypaul candidates instead of sending your money to Mr. Tate.

This matter offers us an

opportunity to make an important and very positive statement about our movement if handled correctly. If handled incorrectly it is an opportunity to fall flat on our faces.

Let us resolve to do this right. Let us resolve to find out everything relevant to this matter and act in complete agreement with the principles we stand for. Let us show by example NOW how we would handle questionable matters if given the peoples nod to manage the peoples affairs, how we would protect the peoples interests.

"We have been caught, we learned our lesson, we won't do it again." OK we will sweep it under the rug and press?

We would not tolerate quietly such action from those we oppose. Do we tolerate that among ourselves? I think not.

Let us do this the right way. How would George Washington handle something like this? Thomas Jefferson? We must not let this die until we determine with absolute certainty whether there is a "This" here or not and take proper and complete action if there indeed is a "This" here. We must insist that C4L provide full and complete disclosure of this matter immediately including a full accounting of what funds came from whom and went to whom.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in


As a former Ron Paul Congressional District Leader here in Washington State, I'm disgraced that it has come to this with the C4L. And I can't can't believe Ron Paul isn't too! Obviously, the organization has been hijacked by a special interests group of neocons. All Patriots, Get out now! An investigation of John Tate should definitely be made.

You give up that easy?

No wonder things have not changed to this point.

Raise hell and take over, don't turn tail and run.


Freedom - Peace - Prosperity


I would hardly say I give up easily. I've been more involved than you will ever know and for some time now. And I will never give up. However, when an organization that has only been in existence for this short of a time period makes such a corrupt move to pay a neocon this exuberant amount of money against everything the C4L supposedly stands for, this is apparently the wrong organization as it just showed that it is run from the top down already. I'm just saying it's time to move on, and try other alternatives and better organizations, even if this is accomplished on a more local level. At any rate, do you have any ideas of how this situation can be remedied?

No thank you.

First they grab the two parties and we abandon the DEM and GOP Parties. Then they grab the government. Then they grab the tea parties and we abandon the tea party. Then they threaten to grab the Campaign for Liberty so we will leave that to them also?

What will you do when they grab your ass?

WE have the message, freedom is popular and government intervention is destructive. When do we take a stand. When do we make our message heard? We can't win but we can take a stand every day.

Or to quote the Notre Dame coach, "No one comes into our house and pushes us around."

Leave if you must, I understand. But I need you help as do your friends. When do we speack truth to power, whether that power is physical, emotional or psychological.

Now is the time! All we need to be is united in liberty and all that implies.

Free includes debt-free!


As I responded to the other individual, I unfortunately and regretfully don't see how an organization like this that went sour so fast can be remedied when the corruption appears to be already at the upper levels. I think it's better to carry on with organizations in your own state and that are more local. Indirectly, we are still helping each other out. I can tell you're a fellow patriot, and whatever you choose I wish you the best and keep up the fight.

Yes, working locally is where it all needs to start.

Well I just have the free membership at C4L, like here at the DP. I understand the message a lot of cancellations will bring.

I think there are C4L staff that want GOP victories at any cost. I believer there were some in the Presidential Campaign that seemed to work agasint Dr. Paul becasue they "knew somehow" he couldn't win.

This time it may be big enough to bring in some light on this subject.

Thanks for the help, friend.

Free includes debt-free!

Chipaugel's wife

What it comes down to is can it be fixed? If so, how can it be fixed, and can it be prevented from happening again. The members have no voice! This survey that qualifies a candidate for C4L funding not acceptable, and frankly it is a joke. It almost sounds like a special interest group came to the naive C4L to funnel funds to their candidate. Regardless....Goodnight for now.

Can C4L fix their problems. Good question.

It great that you are free to make that judgment.

Being free is fun even when it is hard. I hope you find what you are looking for.

We are all making tough choices. Works best if I step back and look at the big picture, with whole heart, whole mind and whole spirit. (That's my Rx for my binary thinking disease : -)

Free includes debt-free!


We(regular freedom shmoes that just want their freedom and country back) are not/have not abandoned the GOP.

We(regular freedom shmoes that just want their freedom and country back) are retaking the GOP from those that subverted it and our nation.

We(regular freedom shmoes that just want their freedom and country back) never had control of the C4L(nor the campaign). In both cases control(power) has clearly been in the hands of the "politics is dirty" political pros of the same stripe as those that control the campaigns/policies of our opponents. No difference at all? Perhaps that explains much of our problem.

Perhaps when you seek to end politics as usual it is advisable not to employ the services of Politics as Usual professionals. At the very least, if the Politics as Usual pros are utilized to aid the end of politics as usual it would be wise to have their employers(regular freedom shmoes that just want their freedom and country back) keeping a constant and wary eye on all their activities and retain the authority to swiftly terminate such employees for misconduct and also initiate civil/criminal action if warranted.

Can't begin to clean the Big National House until we first demonstrate an exceptional ability to keep our abode spotless.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in