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Did Campaign For Liberty Give $350,000 to a Neocon?

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I don't usually post here, but I am a regular participant at Ron Paul Forums, as well as being relatively active in real life too.

Having said that, I wanted to point out something that has the other forums all a-buzz: It appears that Campaign For Liberty spent $350,000 on a media buy for a Colorado candidate named Ken Buck, who is endorsed by Michelle Malkin and supports the wars in the Middle East.

We're all over there going WTF?

http://www.campaignforlib...

and

http://www.ronpaulforums....

should get you up to date.

We're looking to apply some pressure and we hope some of you will make phone calls to Virginia to make them explain what in the world they were thinking.

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It shouldn't have taken this long for them to address it.

I think that is part of the gripe below.

Also, above where you say "not everyone is going to agree 100% with everyone", please realize that a noninterventionist foreign policy is something that most in the liberty movement, including C4L, according to their mission statement, support.

To object to C4L promoting someone advocating what appears to be warmongering does not make someone a child.

Perhaps it is those who would compromise in favor of perpetuating it who need to, as you say, grow up.

I agree

Remember during Ron Paul's presidential campaign when everyone whined about how they helped pay for that silly commercial the campaign came up with (he's catchin' on, I'm tellin' ya!). Not only was it memorable, which is what you want in a commercial, it spawned a YouTube response that caused people who would otherwise have not seen the commercial to watch it! I couldn't see how it was a waste of money at all.

Or how about that one post started by a guy whose local Barnes & Noble hadn't stocked "Revolution: A Manifesto" books, and was convinced B&N had some conspiracy to squelch us? Reports started coming in from everywhere about everyone's local Barnes & Nobles, and it appeared it depended upon the awareness of the individual store managers whether or not the books were stocked (my own B&N was well stocked with the books displayed in prominent places).

Sometimes I think our people are too touchy and too quick to jump to conclusions.

I don't really know anything

about this specific issue, but my comment is more in general regarding all the posts of late which are causing patriots to doubt Ron Paul, Rand Paul, C4L or any other that we KNOW are the real deal due to what they have always done. Do they walk the talk or not, should be the question we always check on. At the same time, remember we are all human and can take mis-steps, which if only occasional should not be allowed to tear apart all the good accomplished previously.

I am constantly reminded of Gandhi's quote about "...and then they fight you, and then you win". I would say we are definitely in the 'and then they fight you' stage. Enemies abound people and they are getting desperate. Keep a level head and remember NO ONE or thing is perfect. Perfection is to the Creator only. We are just people and often highly imperfect.

_____________________________

Defend Liberty, for Liberty
Vote for President Ron Paul 2012
http://ksa4liberty.com

C4L Is New

How do we KNOW they are the real deal? You can't equate that fledgling organization with Ron Paul, who we've known for decades.

_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

I agree...

so is the 'fielding operation' the whole of C4L? Hopefully answers will be given that will help clarify.

C4L is becoming quite a powerful enemy to those who wish the people would just shut up and go back to sleep. As a grass roots organizing tool it is very effective and that is dangerous to the status-quo and it would be to their benefit to see it broken up or its efficiency reduced. Divide and conquer is an oft and long used tool by those wishing to maintain control.

_____________________________

Defend Liberty, for Liberty
Vote for President Ron Paul 2012
http://ksa4liberty.com

photoshopwiz's picture

well ~

Not that it answers or would justify C4L's actions but I'm presenting some more information. Cruised around and found this ...

Reverse Midas: Obama to campaign for beleaguered Sen. Bennet in Colorado
http://tinyurl.com/ya4kkoz

Rasmussen Poll:
Former State Senator Tom Wiens now leads Bennet 44% to 38% and Romanoff 44% to 39%.

Ken Buck, a country district attorney, is ahead of Bennet 43% to 38% and essentially tied with Romanoff 40% to 39%.
http://tinyurl.com/yfhjlnu

A stroke of luck!

Great news! So far, every candidate that Obama has stumped for has lost.

i'm waiting for an answer just as eagerly

but you emotionally vulnerable fucks really tick me off.. almost not one collected discussion in the post section at a skim while you cry dying on the ground with conspiracy theories flying all over.. what losers

Thank You For Sharing.

But what are you talking about?

_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

if i found the info and i decided to take initiatives

i would title the post as something similar to "this is what happened and i found it rather interesting, and in the interest of transparency which is what all growing organizations need because sometimes small activities become hard to monitor and control and corrupt individuals are attracted as the power grows, perhaps this is where additional questions should be asked. then proceed on with the video clip. contact john tate and help ask for details. instead of using emotional/juvenile phrase like WTF WTF WTF!! which just reeks of uneducated teen odor all over the place.

Hmmm

Could the C4L send its own to shut us up?

Here's the deal. I scoured four different web-sites. I have my opinion and I am entitled to that.

Sadly, the analysis and critical thought lead me down one road. That is to say they messed up big time.

hmm! could they!

i'm not questioning the first amendment. i'm just rather appalled by the emotionally and intellectually lacking ways some decided to voice their opinions. one would think being informed and becoming more intellectually mature would motivate a person to pursue more practical and respectable methods to bring about corrections, especially with all the experience in following politics and how ron paul was marginalized and how he would've disappeared from politics long ago if it weren't for his collected behavior. instead of calmly demanding an answer which they should because it's their money, some are even resorting to conspiracy theories and how "this whole liberty movement is a construct to soften the transition to distract the informed" blah and blah.. just hilarious and quite frankly rather pathetic.

You know what?

There may be some truth in what you're saying, but IMHO the biggest problem is that this ad could conceivably send people away from our cause entirely. Speaking as somebody who survived the newsletter fracas, perhaps if we could refrain from attacking each other the movement can move past this somewhat united.

This lecture about respectable methods brought to you by...

...someone who, in a comment above, just called people f**** and losers.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/123033#comment-1323111

i don't recall me ever having a greater purpose here

other than whining because loser conspiracy theorists ticked me off. are you one?

Do you think your dislike for those you deem to be...

...~conspiracy theorists~ entitles you to such behavior?

I'm not sure what about the question put forth in the title you think is ~conspiracy theory~ anyway, since it says right in the ad that C4L paid for it and what makes Buck controversial as a recipient of such C4L promotion comes from his own site, not to mention the quote by Gary Howard of C4L in an article about the $350,000 ad.

But regardless, you should read what the owner of this forum has to say about discussion here of topics, including what some deem ~conspiracy theories~.

Here, let me help:

"... On the Daily Paul, you are free to educate, speculate, and constructively criticize the world you live in, from (yes) chem trails to 911, to the Federal Reserve, the one party system, the corporate controlled media, and even the C4L.

What I try to do with this site is put Ron Paul's principles of freedom liberty, and kindness, understanding and compassion into action. You may not agree with everything everyone says on this site. You may not be into "conspiracy theories," but you don't have to be.

The point is that if we live in a free society, we can peacefully coexist with one another..." (bold emphasis mine)

You remember this, right? It's on the donate page.

Oh, and then there is this in the posting guidelines:

"On this site, please don’t use profanity or other disrespectful or divisive language."(bold type in original)

whatever.i ratherspend time on political and economic education

and it has actually helped my investment. i am waiting for an answer and i'm not going to resort to conspiracy theories, and if the answer from c4l isn't to my satisfaction i'd look for constructive course of actions to correct it. now if it's time for some of you to go to some back room and write some fantastic story about c4l and look for potential rocketfeller names on their list, suit yourself. i don't have one second more for rhetorics.

You can spend time on whatever topics tickle your fancy.

But please be respectful of others to do the same. No need for the insults and hostility.

Good day, jtstellar.

nah.

expect continued ridicule on your behalf if this turns out to be a none-event and like an user recently said, "it's possible someone used c4l logo unauthorized."

Er...Gary Howard from C4L had already acknowledged the ad.

I made reference in my comment to you above about a quote by him in an article about the ad. Here's a link to the article: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/pro-ron-paul-grou...

I never trusted

I never trusted the C4L. That first e-mail demanding money (I know they asked. I gave willingly to Ron Paul)made up my mind about what they were out for. A way to pad their pockets and support whomever they wanted. They used Ron Paul's name and are now single handily squandering those donations given (not asked for) to Ron Paul.

The C4L is a big bureaucracy with its own agenda. I will donate all I can to Ron Paul. I will not send it through the C4L.

If we did it without them during the campaign why the hell do we need them now?

We made them! They just stepped into a role and said they have authority over us. US! Thee most powerful grassroots movement in our nations history. Sounds like something the government would do to a free-market. They would stifle it and destroy it.

Honestly, I don't think the C4L knows who they are dealing with. This could be a game changer for them AKA the end game.

spot on.

Spot on. I don't even know why i am on their mailing list because I have never contacted them or signed up for anything. Yet every week I get some ridiculous emotional-driven email which ends with asking for maybe 20, 50, or even 100 dollars. I don't know what any of this money goes to and I don't know that we've seen any tangible accomplishments out of them (sure they made a lot of calls about TARP, but it got passed anyway, so what good that did.)

We're all in this together, but i thought that we of all people understood that if each of us worked as we see fit to promote our ideas, then we would accomplish a lot more and waste a lot less money than if we create yet another wealth-draining institution of dubious merit.

I'm donating to Medina! What

I'm donating to Medina!

What do I need C4L for?

_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

Learn to read...

...between the lines. If you can't get that Ron Paul has his hands tied in this matter (of the YouTube video where he's supporting Lamar Smith), it's probably best you go and try to find a more honest politician. Good luck to you!

This clip of Ron Paul clearly says to me that he has his hands tied and this is crap he has to do to keep from getting completely marginalized. Get it?

Those of us who have been on this board a while know a little better. (And yes, I've been on here longer than most of the people who regularly post, even though I have a life and don't get on here every 20 minutes.)

When will you people start listening to us "conspiracy kooks?"

At least some of us level-headed ones?

Look, Ron Paul's been used these last few years by some very clever, very devious minds.

What concerns me is that much like military technology, major changes in government structure are often learned about by the masses a few years after they have already been operational. I think the world system is firmly in place and the time has come to make it apparent and obvious. To ease the shock, the people who care about such matters have been given an education in reality so they could go around telling their friends and neighbors about the problems we face. Then the TV and radio personalities moved-in and began using the same basic language people have been hearing from those mentioned before, except with a few personalities and plenty of misguided fears and prescribed solutions.

The concerned citizens that showed-up for the first of the "tea parties" were outnumbered by only the people with "Thank You Fox News" signs, and there were a million more blind sheep just awaiting instructions from the corporate/government TV man.

For those of you who still fall outside the lines and really care about politics in America, organizations like CFL have been established to steer your money right back into the same inside-the-beltway gang that has always gotten it.

Read Octobox's threads and really, really think about what he's saying. It only takes changing one mind---your own. (he says from his HP computer on Comcast internet taking a swig of Pepsi. But hey I'm doing some good things too.) www.hideyourride.com/stuff

From Finding Nemo, "Just swim down"

For a more scholarly exposition here's Hans Herman Hoppe.

http://mises.org/media/1237

Free includes debt-free!

Michael Nystrom's picture

To echo what you said at the end...

There is only one person in this world who you can control, and that is yourself. Live your beliefs. Stand up for what you believe in.

Live a moral life. Don't lie, don't steal, don't cheat. Don't give into the temptations, regardless of the short term rewards.

You're the one that is going to have to look in the mirror every morning.

Be the change. Be the example. It is difficult in this world, with all of its pressures.

Ron Paul gave me courage. He gave all of us courage. Stand up for what you believe in.

No one can tell you that. Look into your heart. That is the only place you will find it.

Thank you Mike Lawson. Thank you Octobox. Thank you Ron Paul.

Over and out.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

There is miscommunication

There is miscommunication here and c4l did not pay for this ad.

There will be a statement from John Tate tomorrow.

Miscommunication? Interesting considering...

It says right on the clip at the end (:27), "Paid for by 2010 Campaign For Liberty".

Gary Howard of C4L was quoted in an article about the $350,000 ad buy.

"Gary Howard, communications director for the Campaign For Liberty, told TPMDC that the ad is not an endorsement of Buck, but is instead intended to promote their candidate surveys. "It's not a support ad or an endorsement ad, it's just based on our candidate surveys," said Howard. "And we want every candidate to answer our surveys. So as soon as another candidate answers our survey, we'll probably do another ad stating that.""

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/pro-ron-paul-grou...

Even if it ends up being said that the money came from somewhere else, the question still remains why would C4L be promoting people who may not exemplify what the organization is supposed to be about?

Why should it take three days...

...to deliver a statement? Either the staff at CFL is incompetent or a lie is being fabricated...I hope its the former but I can think of no others reasons as to why it should take three days to simply tell the truth.