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Did Campaign For Liberty Give $350,000 to a Neocon?

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I don't usually post here, but I am a regular participant at Ron Paul Forums, as well as being relatively active in real life too.

Having said that, I wanted to point out something that has the other forums all a-buzz: It appears that Campaign For Liberty spent $350,000 on a media buy for a Colorado candidate named Ken Buck, who is endorsed by Michelle Malkin and supports the wars in the Middle East.

We're all over there going WTF?




should get you up to date.

We're looking to apply some pressure and we hope some of you will make phone calls to Virginia to make them explain what in the world they were thinking.

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I've gotta say...

..Michael, think about what you've created here and never doubt the power of it. Awesome...the leverage...the balls....... F%ckin' A

Michael Nystrom's picture

I learned my lessons from RON PAUL

I stand with Ron Paul.

He's not the quirky little Congressman from Texas who can say and do what he wants and no one cares any more.

This is high stakes politics. This is the big show. Dr. Paul is under tremendous pressure. In this game, anything goes.

I will reserve judgment until I hear from the C4L on this matter.

I still support Ron Paul. I understand the C4L and Ron Paul are separate entities. Ron Paul is a
Congressman. He is a visionary. The amount of time he can devote to overseeing this political entity is limited. I understand that.

People came down on Dr. P. because of that thing about supporting Texas incumbents. Well, I know the pressure he is under, simply because I have a good imagination, and I know what I have experienced running this site. His popularity means that everyone is grabbing and clawing at him. Everyone wants something from him.

I am only able to image this because of the microcosm I have experienced in running this website.

Maybe I'm stupid. Maybe I'm naive. Maybe I'm going to get my heart broken like it has never been broken before. Maybe I'll piss Dr. Paul off and be estranged from him forever.

It doesn't matter. Let the chips fall where they may.

The only thing I have is my self respect. In the end, it is the only thing any of us have.

I want some information from the C4L about what they're doing with our money. If it is not our money, then why are they selling their name, and by association, our name.

Someone on the RP Forums said it best: Foreign Policy is an area that WE DON'T COMPROMISE. It is what unites us all. It even unites us with the lefty peaceniks. It is what unites us with other AMERICANS.

I'm not going to sell that out.

I've kept my tongue tied over the C4L for long enough out of respect for Dr. Paul. But there is no point in valuing his self respect over my own for any longer. Dr. Paul is, and always will be, forever in my mind, the greatest hero I have ever known in my generation.

I have never respected an American president. The first one I can remember is Nixon. You can go through the list: Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama. Johnson was president when I was born.

Who among these men can I respect? None.

Ron Paul is my only hero in the political realm. I realize he is in a difficult position. So am I. Welcome to politics.

I'm not a playah. I want answers.

He's the man.

That is the best response..

Ive read so far. That is the best attitude to have.

I dont like the solicitations from C4L. Honestly, I dont really follow that site much. DP is where I get all the info I spread because of the broad range of posts. If it has to do with money, taxes, war or liberty this is the only stop I make.

I talked with one of the volunteers tonight about Palin endorsing Rand. I smell a rat and dont like it much. He thought it was great. He thinks that its our message that will hijack the hoopla.

I really hope Rand wins. I hope that Schiff wins. If we pick up a few congressional seats our movement is now legit.

Looking at those possibilities, I can see how much pressure the doc is under too. I listen to him. Nobody else.

Ron Paul is my president.

Thanks for the comment and sorry to write so much!

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Rock on Brother

You're the man.

I agree that CFL sends

I agree that CFL sends too much snail mail and I recommend you contact them and get off the mailing list.

I could not help but think how much money ....our money that they are wasting on snail mail (paper, printing, envelopes, & postage). I suppose the bulk mailing does require large numbers to get cost breaks but they are wasting it on me.

I contacted CFL about six months ago about getting off the snail mail list. I recommended that they try to target more people that are not members, or never donate, and just remove me from the snail mail list. I still get updates via email and have not received a letter in six months. I recommended that they add something to the account settings on their website so users choose how they are contacted, or at least offer an option to op-out of snail mail.

As far as this current issue, I have not looked into it but I am interested. I have been a CFL member since the beginning, but have not been able to do much as an unaffiliated or Independent. I seem to be one of the few CFL members that prefer a new party rather than taking over the neocon ruled Republican Party.

I do understand the issues challenging any third party and know there are more obstacles for third parties. I know how Ron Paul faired as a Libertarian. I do think a lot has changed since then, and my opinion is to start something new with core values related to a non intervention foreign policy, sound money, property rights, and civil liberty. At this point, infiltrating the Republican Party with the goal of getting them back to their roots might be a better tactic given the current environment, but I don't like it.

The most difficult issue with Republican voters I talk to is foreign policy, but given the opportunity to really discuss issues with friends, colleagues, and on the web, it seems these people are against nation building. When I talk to non voters, a lot of them share the core ideas of the liberty movement. The GOP establishment has caved to Keynesian economics, but most of the people in the party relate to sound money.

Anyway I encourage everyone to contact CFL and ask to be removed from their snail mail list if you are tired of all the paper.

I am not suggesting getting off the snail mail list because of this recent issue, as I mentioned, I am still learning about it.

I recommend contacting CFL because they will remove you from the letter list and you can just get the emails.

Phone: (703) 865-7162
Or log in first so they will have your info and hit the support page. Help -> Support

I feel the need to repost my comment from this morning ...


C4L ...

A bloated top down money machine that strips funds from the real grass roots organizations in this movement.
What does c4l do other than bundle funds to help finance candidates? This model was rendered obsolete two years ago. This model, much like the top down federal regulatory system, bypasses the true market place of ideas and is therefore prone to large amounts of errors and mis-allocations of funds.
I have sent them messages many times requesting info on their mission and what exactly they do differently than the other freedom sites such as the dailypaul. Ronpaulforums, the dailypaul, and all the other freedom sites operate on pennies compared to c4l and actually are able to spread the message much more efficiently without dictating to sheeple. They have never responded back. They have no accountability.
C4L is a liability to this movement and I cannot support liabilities. I have a hard enough time supporting assets.
That is my opinion ...
take it for what it is worth.


Pardon my ignorance, and I've been meaning to ask this for over a year...What does WAHOR mean?

We All Have Our Roles

I'm not rhino, but pretty sure that's what it means


Now I'm wondering what my role is.

Some points to consider

First, my disclaimer. However this plays out, I think C4L acted stupidly. Sorry--I must have been typing this as the comment below about special donors was being posted.

Now, the points to consider.

1) I think most, if not all of us are guilty of assumptions when we see/read information. Assuming that what we see is the whole story. Assuming that we "have a right" to know the whole story. Go ahead, add to the list.

2) Do we know that the 350K allegedly spent on the ad came from the donations of people like us?

3) Is it possible that someone or a group of people, may have donated some funds for use in a specific arena? (eg Colorado?) I have no idea if one can donate "designated" funds to a 501 (c) 4, but what if?

4) Finally, if C4L has done a stupid thing, or an ill-considered thing, if in other words, they have made an error, been human, goofed, screwed up and if they tell us the story and apologize or explain, will we accept that and move on? Or will we dig in our heels and say "sorry, you just killed all we have worked for for _____ years, there is no room for forgiveness here."?

Phil. 4:13

Lie down with dogs, you're

Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas!


is selling our brand name for profit?

I'm RP for good.

I didn't read any of this. Don't need to. I've heard enough of Dr. Paul to know on which side of the line I stand.

Ron Paul 2012. Period.

Michael Nystrom's picture

I am with you on that.

I Support Ron Paul.


I don't take that lightly.

C4L is not Ron Paul. I understand that.

Ron Paul 2012!

He's the man.

After calming that black ugliness of deceit building in my gut..

...I too realize that a man would not spend his entire life risking everything to spread a message of peace and then suddenly have a complete change of heart. Dr. Paul was the reason I started trusting and believing again, he's an incredible man. For now I'm going to go with his lessons of the last thirty years.

Selling Out the Freedom Movement

I truly feel sick right now. First there was this:


and now THIS! It seems sell-out Rand's success has translated to Ron deciding he needed to sell out a little too... or in this case, A LOT! Consider my C4L membership dissolved.

Not Surprised

I don't have any question about Dr. Paul's sincerity, but the folks working for him... that's a different story... lets not forget who C4L's VP is... we all know the great work he's done to preserve Dr. Paul's good image... ever look at that guy's background?

P.S. Yes, I know he married his daughter, stop acting like that means anything...


C4L did not use any existing funds. Funds came from a small group of donors in Colorado. Ad was paid with funds that were solely raised for this purpose - Ad campaign was at no cost to C4L.

Official statement to come later tonight.

My confidence in this organizations was already shaky

after the event in Missouri where they had people training us on old school cut throat campaign tactics. That's not the kind of integrity Paul would advocate. Why is C4L lending their name to this? We've never even heard of this guy till now let alone agree with his politics! I've said it once and I'll say it again, Paul needs to surround himself with better people. They always seem to get him involved in some sticky situations. I always thought these guys John Tate and Jessse Benton sounded like used car salesmen. They are always whispering to each other. Why can't we get stand up people to run these organizations that we all know and respect? I better stop now that I'm having flashbacks to how the campaign was run. Speaking of which, look at the quality of this commercial and think back to the ones for Ron Paul 2010. Think about the ones they still are doing now with Paul. That should make your blood boil.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Michael is right.

Cost can not be merely calculated in dollar signs.

If funds were raised by an outside group of donors why the heck did C4L have to get involved? I haven't trusted them from the get go. They never have understood the grassroots.

Ron Paul stands on his own merits, but allowing himself to be used by others is one of his likable failings. Overlook the leeches and appreciate his superb qualities.

Thank God! I was hoping an

Thank God! I was hoping an official statement would come out soon before the tar and feathers could be used. It seems that a number of members were looking for an excuse to bail out of C4L. I can certainly understand the anxiety but to abandon ship after hearing a rumor is not cool :o).

Hopefully the statement will clear up the controversy.

Michael Nystrom's picture

"No cost to C4L?"

Ha. I think you mean "financial cost"

This has already had a terrible cost, on C4L. On all of us. On confidence. On morale. On integrity.

No cost. Ha. The cost is huge.

He's the man.

why do we have a small group of donors in our tent

raising that kind of bank for him and not a real statesman?

Agreed, since when does a small group of donors speak for us?

We already have this problem with a small group of bankers.

..and other small corporate funded special interest groups.

I say HELL NO!

They have usurpted the brand and dishonored it.

Michael Nystrom's picture

I wonder if anyone got a kickback?

Politics, after all.

He's the man.
Michael Nystrom's picture

The community wants answers.

I do.

Don't you? I don't know how this can possibly be spun.

What do they think we are, a bunch of jackasses?

How long does it take to get an answer? This has been going on for two days now.

He's the man.

Still waiting on Schiff, but

Still waiting on Schiff, but as far as Rand goes I think I am somewhat at peace with it because its sort of a damned if you do/damned if you don't kinda deal. http://vdare.com/roberts/091122_mohammed_trial.htm

Ventura 2012

In other words...


I have not seen clarification from Rand as to whether by saying he supports a declaration of war in Afghanistan he meant that if war is going to be taking place that it needs to be properly declared, or whether he meant he supports war in Afghanistan.

If the damned if you do/damned if you don't excuse gives people a free pass, wouldn't that apply to everyone, including Buck? If that was an acceptable excuse, I doubt there would be the controversy with C4L supporting him, er...uh, I mean promoting their surveys.


Thats all I can say:(

What the f*** is going on here?

We aren't loaded and this type of bullshit can destroy our reputation. F*** the republican party, they don't deserve that much of OUR f***ing treasury.