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Open Letter to Michael Nystrom Regarding the Outcry Over C4L/Ken Buck

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Wow well said response

Wow well said response

The bulk of this discussion is moving to e-mail

Per Michael Nystrom's request, I will be addressing the bulk of this matter via e-mail.

The majority of Michael Nystrom's last response(s) were reasonable. Though I'd disagree with the characterizations of "cowardice" and "ignorance," those are mere perceptions. One man's "cowardice" is another's love for his family and desire to protect his ability to earn a living for them. One man's "ignorance" is another's acknowledgement that a situation contains countless unknowns, and that all the research in the world will not provide a comprehensive picture of the truth. I also disagree vehemently with the tactic of threatening to reveal the identities of anonymous posters, and will address that directly to Michael Nystrom.

It is possible that this thread will be deleted per my request. If that happens, I apologize to all of you who have contributed thoughtful comments and engaged in real dialog.

Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical, minority views...Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. - SCotUS, 1995

Going light, staying light

No problem on who the preferred candidate was remaining unstated.

Deleting whole threads? Why? You understand this kind of exchange goes on all over the tubes all the time. In fact, it is very heated out there, this is quite genteel for political forum land.

Consider, we all have a range of efforts throughout our lives, some efforts we are quite happy about, some we are absolutely not happy about. It happens, that is life, real life for all. Life does not have a delete button and it is well it does not. Part of getting better at life is learning to deal with the fact that your warts will show. Guess what, everyone has them and they show. Any warts that may be in this thread are nearly invisible and completely insignificant. Hell, Bill Clinton did not give a second thought about the entire world knowing where he put his cigar when it was not in his mouth and he had to face the worlds major media everyday.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

One more simple question

If you cannot answer this one or think it is inappropriate to do, no problem.

Who is the preferred celebrity candidate?

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

I don't think it's appropriate

The candidate isn't running, hasn't hinted at even considering running, etc. I dropped that project when Ron Paul announced.

Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical, minority views...Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. - SCotUS, 1995

egapele's picture

Dropped what project?

Is that what this is? A project? He hasn't announced anything.

In 2007

I was referring to the last presidential election cycle.

Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical, minority views...Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. - SCotUS, 1995

to egapele: Your response is proof

that Michael Nystrom's site has become a detriment to the Ron Paul movement.

egapele's picture

No, my response is a detriment

to YOUR movement. Don't you dare.

Why the hell are you here then?

If it is a wacky and detrimental site what does that say about yourself. Seems pretty whacked to me for a person to hang out at a site they consider wacky?

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

Reading Michael Nystroms response

makes me think he should stop using the Paul Family Name to promote his personal site.

I have yet to read a comment

I have yet to read a comment submitted by Black Ops that vibrates in a positive way. The screen name was aptly chosen.

you dont read much do you?

I am not a Michael Nystrom worshiper. I am a Ron Paul supporter. More than I can say about half the people on this wacky site.

egapele's picture

Good.

Then go join the Tea Party crowd, who use less conspicuous means to hijack people's agendas.

meekandmild's picture

IS the writer more inclined to making a career out of C4L

"because I do not have the luxury of posting my name on this site, lest I jeopardize my career,"
Is he looking to work and or control C4L. Is this person collecting a salary from C4L, If so how much?

Interesting

to say the least--waiting for Part II of the response.

Michael Nystrom's picture

.

I posted Part II here (below)

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/123413#comment-1325948

He's the man.

Joe Kennedy was given a questionaire too.

On 1/20/10 Jack Blood interviewed Jake Witmer from the Joe Kennedy campaign. Jake says that C4L wouldn’t help the campaign, or give Kennedy an endorsement.

(There’s no time clock in the Quicktime player on this page, but the part about C4L starts about 1/5 of the way from the beginning in the scroll bar.)

http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/archive/Jack-Blood-32k-0...

Jake says that C4L gave the Kennedy campaign a questionnaire which they answered in a “…manor that indicated they support all of Ron Paul’s views.”

C4L then asked if the campaign already had $100,000 in their campaign fund.

C4L asked, “Do you have any polls that show you’re capable of winning?” (meaning over 30%)

Jake described the whole process as “politics as usual.” He says, “Joe financed his ballot access entirely on his own ($10,000).” Jake also claims that the Libertarian Party didn’t help with ballot access either.

Jake Witmer stated that he thinks a Ron Paul endorsement would have made a big difference in the campaign, especially in fundraising.

Jack Blood then mentioned the Daily Paul, he said, “The Daily Paul threw their whole hearted support behind Joe Kennedy." I think it’s safe to say that Jack Blood is a DPer.

Jack Blood’s show “Deadline Live” can be heard weekday afternoons from 4-6 PM EST on American Freedom Radio.
http://www.americanfreedomradio.com

If this is true:

"C4L then asked if the campaign already had $100,000 in their campaign fund."

"C4L asked, “Do you have any polls that show you’re capable of winning?” (meaning over 30%)"

particularly the second question, in light of that type of crap being used against RP for POTUS

I am beyond furious with C4L.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

I got those quotes directly from the interview

The part about the 30%+ was a little later in the interview than the rest.

I would like to know if any other

REAL LIBERTY Candidates have had similar experiences with C4L. Again, particularly about demonstrating 30% or greater polling support-that is absolute BULL CRAP if they are doing that.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

Agreed

Asking RJ Harris and Jake Towne about this would be a good next step at uncovering the truth.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Part II - Compassion

On Anonymity, Cowardice and Courage

WCU4Paul: Prior to Ron Paul's announcement that he was forming an exploratory committee, I had actually registered a domain and begun building a site to encourage my preferred candidate -- a celebrity we all know who is well respected in this movement -- to run for the presidency. Not being a programmer, I put many hours into just trying to get the site looking good and operating smoothly; and even then it lacked Web 2.0 capabilities.

I know. You registered the name with GoDaddy on December 3, 2006, and it expires on December 3, 2010. Like I said, we smoked you out pretty quick after you started harassing me. I am thankful to have loyal and very, very intelligent supporters. Not much gets by this team.

WCU4Paul: Not being a programmer, I put many hours into just trying to get the site looking good and operating smoothly

Sounds just like me. Tough work, isn't it? I'm glad that you appreciate that what I do is no easy task. And programming isn't the last of it. Then I've got to come in and deal with people like you.

WCU4Paul: My current position (it's not political, it's in education) would be jeopardized by blatant political activity. My future career prospects would be jeopardized as well.

How sad. In the freest country in the world, in which you live under laws specifically designed to protect your right to free speech, you have voluntarily denied yourself that freedom. You believe that the money, prestige, promise for advancement, or whatever it is you have used to bind yourself in mental slavery, is more important than to be able to exercise your God given right to free speech. How very, very sad. And of all things, you're a teacher!

I want to thank you for voluntarily sharing these personal details about yourself, because they have softened my approach to you. In other words, they have transformed you from being an anonymous twit into a person. Your words have given me a sense of compassion for you, as I realize that you must be a tortured soul, having unconsciously put yourself in the position that you are in.

I am older than you, probably by about 20 years or so. However, I was once in your shoes, so I can identify with where you are coming from. Life was rougher for me than it was for the previous generation, and I have no doubt that it is rougher for your generation than it was for mine. I was once afraid, too -- of everything! I was afraid of what my parents might think, what my friends might think, what my boss might think, how my actions might affect my future employability, etc. All the things you probably fear now about publishing your name online. When I was in college, I remember being fed this particular line of bullshit: "You don't want any gaps in your resume. If you have a gap in your resume, you'll have to be able to explain it to your next potential employer."

What a line! But you know what? It had me terrified that if I took any time off to travel, or just be, I'd never get another job again!

Because I was once there, I can identify with you. Fortunately for me, I was able to begin to break free. Most people, for whatever reason, are not able to even see the fear they live in. They live their entire lives with that kind of fear. I hope that one day you will also be able to break free from your fear, which is the only reason I've continued writing this post.

I would ask you to reflect on what you're saying. I know where you teach. Teachers teach not only with books and words, but with their actions. In fact, it is their actions that speak the loudest.

What do you think you are teaching your students with your actions? If your students knew of these posts online, what message do you think it would send to them? Would it instill courage in them? Do you want your students to grow up to be like you? To be afraid? Do you think we can achieve Liberty in a country of people who make the choices you've made?

You're afraid to speak out, so you do so anonymously. You fear you have something to lose. But hiding your true self exacts an incredible cost of its own. Like I said, most Americans pay that cost daily. They keep their head down. They go along with the crowd. They go along to get along. With a populace like this, is it any wonder that this country has arrived where we have?

You've made a sacrifice because you think there is a payoff for you down the line in some respect. I don't know what it is you think you can gain, but you believe you won't be able to gain it without silencing yourself and your political beliefs. The sacrifice you're making is visible to your students in ways you cannot imagine. Think back to your own high school teachers, and what you knew about them by simple observation, without them ever saying a word.

I urge you to read John Taylor Gatto's Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling. If you have not read it, I believe it has the potential to be transformational for you. We all need some type of transformational experience to begin to shake us out of our fear.

And in the end look at what has happened! You haven't even managed to keep your identity secret! Look at how exposed you've left yourself! Either you were just sloppy, or you left enough obvious clues because you wanted to be found out. I don't know which. But I do know your name, your address, your employer, your email address and more. If you're afraid that this information could jeopardize your future career prospects, you have now met your fear. You have left me with incredible power over you. I know exactly what you fear, and I have the information to destroy you.

Remember that sometimes you meet your destiny on the road you take to avoid it.

I won't go into all the rest on the post. You're right that it is just a bunch of petty squabbling - not worth anybody's time going back over and over and over again. We agree to disagree - fair?

The most important thing I want to impress upon you, and those following along, is the bedrock importance of personal freedom. If you are not free yourself, there is no way you can either understand freedom, or fight for it for others. As long as you are controlled by fear, you will never be truly free. This is what makes people like Gandhi and MLK so utterly powerful. They looked into the face of the ultimate fear and said, "So what. I'm going to do it anyway."

In closing, Mike, what I most want to communicate to you is that there is still plenty of time for you to step into courage. I know you're working like a dog - you don't have a lot of time or money, like the rest of us poor Americans. Do you understand that whatever future you're trying to protect is more of the same? I urge you to think it through.

The simple act of celebrating freedom by exercising it without apology is one of the strongest actions for Liberty that any individual can take.

This is also the path on the road to courage.

He's the man.

Sometimes the best way express approval and appreciation

for a comment is to say do not know how to do so. This is one of instances.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

Wonderful lesson, Mr.

Wonderful lesson, Mr. Nystrom! A lesson my young soul has trouble with from time to time..

Mises.org
Know your stuff, learn real history and economics @LibertyClassroom.com

Michael Nystrom's picture

Response to Mike (WCU4Paul) - Part I

In my last posting, I asked you to email me privately. Why didn't you? At any rate, since you've chosen to continue, I will respond, as I believe this is educational for the people following along:

* * *

Again, you're trying to mislead and misdirect, changing the topic, and turn me into the lightening rod. We all know the tactics, but you're not very good at executing them - you're much too obvious, as many DP posters have pointed out, both publicly and privately to me. But then again, the Daily Paul is an exceptionally intelligent crowd. We're not easily fooled.

You're not a very good debater. Not very focused. But you do present the opportunity for education, and for that I thank you. This is helpful for me in refining my own arguments, which will eventually make their way into multiple separate posts of their own.

But lets get down to addressing your points. Shall we?

WCU4Paul: I haven't even read many of the threads you mention on other sites.

Then you are ignorant, and I mean this not in a derogatory way, but factually. If you haven't even read many of the threads, then you simply don't know what is going on. How could you? Maybe you're a psychic, too? What a colossal failure to admit such a thing. The question that naturally follows is, why should we listen to you if you aren't up to speed with what is going on?

To respond, to the best of my ability, to your post:

1. It's about tone.

It most certainly is not all about tone. Do you value tone over message? Do you like pretty tones? Soothing tones? The kind of nice tones that put you to sleep while people steal your wallet? Sometimes the appropriate response is anger.

We've been hearing the same soothing tones emanate from DC for decades now. The tones pervade everything, including, apparently, the C4L.

WCU4Paul: All are welcome, so long as they are productively fighting for freedom. I admit that I have occasionally been critical of those who I feel are using this movement to "hijack" it for their own agenda. I've been one to get "tough" when I think such people are irreconcilable liabilities who hurt our image.

You sound like a collectivist who wants to control all aspects of this movement. It is clear, therefore, that you do not understand this movent. Who are you to decide who is welcome or not? Who are you to judge what is "productively fighting" for freedom? Seriously - what makes you think that you are in that position to judge? What authority do you have to assert that, as an anonymous screen name on my site?

We can fight for freedom, and we can also celebrate it. The simple act of celebrating freedom by exercising it without apology is one of the strongest actions for Liberty that any individual can take. I'm not about image management, nor is that what the DP is about. As I have pointed out to you before, if you want a managed-image community, go to the C4L site. Image is something that is very carefully managed there. The Daily Paul is a collection of individuals celebrating their freedom.

WCU4Paul: I find it ironic that you embrace such individuals and tolerate their continued divisiveness

Do you find it ironic that I tolerate your divisiveness? I do. lol.

WCU4Paul: Does not "truther creep" and "birther creep" and "chemtrail creep" cause similar problems?

Again, this goes back to your fundamental misunderstanding of the Daily Paul. It is nothing but a collection of individuals who support Ron Paul. There is no formal organization. The Daily Paul is not a national organization that claims to speak on behalf of its membership. Do you understand the difference? If you don't like truthers, birthers and chemtrailers, then go to the C4L site. I'm sure those people are treated as if they don't even exist on that site. Their posts are immediately deleted. Is this what should be done with these individuals, with these beliefs, who are part Ron Paul's support base? Shut them up but take their votes and money?

WCU4Paul: What is needed is subtle persuasion from within, not rushes to judgment that crucify the organization for not capitulating to your every demand within a week's time.

Really? Subtle persuasion? How's that working out for government at the federal, state, and local levels? Do you think subtle persuasion help us win Liberty? Surely you're familiar with Barry Goldwater's quote, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

I take issue with your exaggerated use (once again) of language. Crucify? I guess you have fully bought into the political correctness that asking unpleasant questions has somehow become a form of "crucifixion." Is it a crucifixion for me, and other members of the community to ask C4L where John Buck's survey question answers are? Should we just take Tate's word for it that he answered "19 of 20 correctly?" In this case, I subscribe to one of Ronald Reagan's dictates: "Trust, but verify."

WCU4Paul: My initial response to your post was sparked by a comment you made, which I felt amounted to a claim that the movement was unanimously together in terms of foreign policy.

In debate, your "feelings" are irrelevant. What is relevant are the facts. If you had read the other postings on the internet, like a good debater should have and would have, you would have seen what I saw and understood why I said what I did, which was:

The numerous comments on the C4L link, as well as comment threads on Forums and the Daily Paul indicate overwhelming dissatisfaction with the vaguely worded explanation, and call for more answers.

"Overwhelming dissatisfaction" does not mean "unanimous" as you "felt" it did. Where did you learn English? You're doing your red herring thing again.

WCU4Paul: (Is everyone who posts on your site a coward if they do not sign their name, Mr. Nystrom?)

I wasn't talking about everyone. I was talking about you.

WCU4Paul: because I do not have the luxury of posting my name on this site, lest I jeopardize my career

Worried more about your career than fighting for Liberty? How's that working out for you? You wish to remain anonymous yet you deem to judge who is "productively fighting for freedom" and want to "get 'tough' when [you] think such people are irreconcilable liabilities who hurt our image." ??

I can assure you that the "luxury" of hiding behind a screen name is much greater than that of using one's real name, and standing with full force behind one's own words. Just ask Ron Paul.

Let's look at your statement again.

WCU4Paul: I do not have the luxury of posting my name on this site

Really? Who is keeping you from doing that? Does someone own and control you, besides yourself? If that is the case, then you are not free. If it is your fear that keeps you from doing so, then you are a coward. And again, I don't say this in a mean way, simply as a statement of fact.

You are afraid to use your real name, but I already know it. My crack team of eyeballs on this site were able to smoke you out pretty quick. You used to post here with your real name, but then then you deleted all of those entries.

Why? What changed? What was it that became so frightful for you?

3. Being black and white on war.
As I said, we know where Ron Paul stands, and it is as black as white as can be: "We marched in, we can march right out. Just come home."

4. Purity vs. pragmatism.

I've already discussed this elsewhere, and my positions are clear. Ron Paul showed that even in this world of mistrust and lies, a single, principled individual can have a huge impact by having consistent, principled responses. This is the kind of organization that I would like the C4L to be. There is enough pragmatism going on in Washington.

Again I ask: How's it working? My understanding of the C4L is that it was to be a principled organization that adheres to Ron Paul's model and philosophy. This is why it grew so fast, and this is the cause of the current outrage - the straying from these principles.

Would the C4L have grown as fast as it did without Ron Paul's implicit backing & stamp of approval?

This is why I am outraged.

He's the man.
reedr3v's picture

Just a short comment as we

wait for Michael's reply; I wonder if some of the difficulty is in using the term "non-intervention." To me that has a slippery feel and could be stretched for political ends. But the term most liberty advocates use is non-aggression, or zap (zero aggression principle.) That is far more clear and is the defining principle of libertarian thought. There really is no hedge room on it IMO. You can't really be working for liberty and be soft on aggression. (and I do think Leif made a good point about the value of private tussles sometimes accomplishing more without stirring up factions.)

I don't know all the details

but private messages sometimes are a more appropriate forum for this stuff. I really can't take a side yet since I've only read this thread and not the original one (and frankly have no interest in doing so) but typically calling out the site owner in practice usually doesn't work out so well and you sure as hell won't get other commenters to risk their neck to back you up. Just the way it works, you're pretty much on your own here WCU.

And I understand this thread title was respective and we should be allowed to have open letters, but on a website where the average comment is probably 10 words, using a thousand words trying to discredit the site owner usually won't advance the conservation. In fact, it's counterproductive if you're trying to change Michael's mind. Now that this is in the public domain and hundreds will see it, both sides will now double-down on their positions and try to gather support from bystanders and that support will PROVE they're right. Persuasion no longer works. There'd have been a much better chance of reconciling if something like this would've been sent privately.

Hey Michael, I'm just a kid too! You don't have to take it easy on us though. Yes we're still learning some of the finer points in life but hey if we're posting on a Ron Paul forum we can't be entirely full of loose screws!

Michael Nystrom's picture

Go light on him. He's just a kid.

I haven't read the responses below. I see there are 66.

Thanks to any of you who are defending my position.

I have a full and compassionate response that I'm working on, but won't be able to post it later because I have some celebrating of freedom to do.

I'm going to have to trash my mean petty one, after certain new details came to light. Sometimes it is fun to mean, sarcastic and petty, but in the end it is not that useful.

We all still have freedoms - let's not forget that.

We are all here fighting for freedom, even WCU4Paul, in his own way. Don't forget to celebrate it from time to time!

It is a sunny Sunday, and I am going outside to play.

The simple act of celebrating freedom by exercising it without apology is one of the strongest actions for Liberty that any individual can take.

Mike (WCU4Paul) - I know your your real name, who you work for, the domain you registered, your email, etc. There is really no point in trying to hide. My crack team of eyeballs on the site were able to smoke you out pretty quick.

Don't worry your secret is safe with me and my team.

More later.

He's the man.

Thank you!

"The simple act of celebrating freedom by exercising it without apology is one of the strongest actions for Liberty that any individual can take."

Bravo and amen!